[Shotimes] Car will not start after valve lash adjustment
(long)
Ken Johnson
kenjo@attbi.com
Wed, 7 May 2003 06:46:36 -0400
So I am getting ready for this weekend when I can get back into my car and
see why she will not start.
I have much more experience in troubleshooting the pair of Chevy 305's in my
father's 1959 Chris Craft than I do with the SHO engine since at least one
of the 305s goes down evey summer. I have done a lot of work on the SHO
engine, it has just never needed any troubleshooting so I am not sure if the
same techniques I have used on an engine with a distributer and carburator
are the right things to do with the SHO engine ( I know they will work I
just don't know if there are any different issues with the SHO engine i.e. I
do not want to fry any electronics)
1) Pull a plug reconnect the plug wire, run a jumper from the plug to the
chasis ground and turn the key and look for spark. If I get a spark goto
step 2.
2) Replace the spark plug, spray some starting fluid into the throttle body
and try to start.
3) Is there another test other than #2 above that can tell me definatively
if the injectors solenoids are working, some kind of electric test ? Would I
get any codes during the KOEO test if the injectors were not working ?
Ken
'95 Blue MTX
'91 Mocha Mocha
----- Original Message -----
From: "Midwest SHO Specialists" <SHOtimes@midwestsho.com>
To: "Ken Johnson" <kenjo@attbi.com>; <shotimes@autox.team.net>
Sent: Monday, May 05, 2003 8:10 PM
Subject: Re: [Shotimes] Car will not start after valve lash adjustment
(long)
> Ken, All is not lost. I had a customer use a full can of Berrymans in his
> heads and then try to start the motor. Needless to say, it locked and
> didn't start.
>
> Enter me, I took all the plugs out and turned the motor over a few times.
I
> got shot with Berrymans in the eye. It's not fun, despite what most say.
> Put the plugs back in, car still sounds like it's running with no
> compression and it doesn't start. The plugs had fouled. Cleaned them,
> reinstalled them, and all was well.
>
> Give it a try. If the motor is turning over and not backfiring, you're
> close. :>)
>
> Mike Kopstain
> Midwest SHO Specialists
> 827 North Chestnut Avenue
> Arlington Heights, IL 60004
> www.MidwestSHO.com
> Sales@midwestsho.com
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Ken Johnson" <kenjo@attbi.com>
> To: <shotimes@autox.team.net>
> Sent: Monday, May 05, 2003 5:14 PM
> Subject: Re: [Shotimes] Car will not start after valve lash adjustment
> (long)
>
>
> > I did use carb cleaner on the heads. But that was two weeks ago
wouldn't
> > most of the liquid hace evaporated by now ? The thing I am most
concerned
> > about is that the car started and now it will not. When it was running
it
> > something happened......something got screwed up in the valve train and
> and
> > the timing belt snaped. The way the engine is spinning the whole dance
is
> > not working.
> >
> > - ground strap is attached on left rear intake support bolt the sequence
> is
> > like this, nut ground strap electrical harness bracket then the nut that
> is
> > part of the stud then it goes into the intake.
> >
> > - DIS is connected.
> >
> > - where is the TPS connector, I seem to remember it is a single
connection
> > from when I replaced it on my '91. That could foul things up but the
> > engine would not spin like this even if the computer did not know where
> the
> > crank was.
> >
> > Tell me more about the carb cleaner in the cylinder head...liquid is
> > incompressible fluid and then turn the car and what breaks ?
> >
> > I have to pull the cover off the timing belt housing and see if she is
> > turning. That is pretty easy to get to.
> >
> > Ken
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Donelson Don" <1badsho@mail.tnh.net>
> > To: "Ken Johnson" <kenjo@attbi.com>
> > Cc: <shotimes@autox.team.net>
> > Sent: Monday, May 05, 2003 5:44 PM
> > Subject: Re: [Shotimes] Car will not start after valve lash adjustment
> > (long)
> >
> >
> > > Did u put carb cleanor down the heads .. were the intake bolts too or
> just
> > on the runners only ? BIG NO NO
> > >
> > > I would check your ground strap that hooks to the back of the intake.
> > >
> > > Also make sure u re-attached your DIS connections. The do-hicky on the
> > front of the motor. If they arent properly seated your motor wont start.
> > >
> > > make sure your TPS sensor is hooked up and your maff
> > >
> > > dond
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
> > > From: "Ken Johnson" <kenjo@attbi.com>
> > > Date: Mon, 5 May 2003 17:07:55 -0400
> > >
> > > >This is not the first time I have pulled the SHO engine apart enough
to
> > get
> > > >the valve shims but this is the first time that I have actually
removed
> > and
> > > >replaced shims. The previous time I pulled the valve covers was
> because
> > there
> > > >was oil in the plug wells of my '91 but at that time I was not
> interested
> > in
> > > >the valve lash.
> > > >
> > > >Here is what I did to get my car not to start. Did all the obvious
> things
> > you
> > > >got to do to get to the cams, pulled the hood, intake and valve
covers.
> > I
> > > >used my Helm service manual and the Stage II cam installation video
as
> > > >reference. I got the tappet depressor and holder from the SHO Shop.
> > > >
> > > >Notables
> > > >1) The only deviation from the video that I did not think was a big
> deal
> > but
> > > >maybe it was.....in order to measure all the gaps I was bumping the
> > starter to
> > > >turn the cams in the video they put a wrench on the fly wheel but
since
> I
> > was
> > > >not doing a timing belt I was not interested in pulling that side of
> the
> > car
> > > >apart.
> > > >2) When I measured the gaps two weeks ago prior to ordering the shims
I
> > got
> > > >about .002" larger gaps than I got when I got back into the car after
> > > >recieving the shims I thought I needed to bring everything back into
> > spec. So
> > > >an exhaust that was .016" needing to be replaced was now coming up
> > .013-.014
> > > >with the original shim. I found this out because as I was installing
> the
> > new
> > > >shims the resulting gap was much smaller than I had orginally
> calculated.
> > The
> > > >only thing I can think of is engine temperature, Ii believe I drove
the
> > car
> > > >from the street into my driveway the morning of the initial
> measurements
> > so if
> > > >anything the motor was warmer the day of the intial measurements and
> > unless
> > > >there are dissimilar materials in the valve train I can not see why I
> > would
> > > >get a smaller gap 2 weeks later with the same shim with a colder
> engine.
> > > >Anyway I ended up only replacing 2 exhaust shims when originally I
had
> > planned
> > > >on replacing about 5 total shims. I just could not put the motor
back
> > > >together with an intake gap at .004".
> > > >3) New plugs and new wires installed (checked the firing order
already
> > and it
> > > >is OK)
> > > >4) Put small amount of dielectric grease on both ends of the plug
wire
> > prior
> > > >to installation (have not done this during previous R&R of plugs and
> > wires but
> > > >heard this was a good thing to do, yes?)
> > > >5) New gasket for the valve covers, RTV'd the plug well seals.
> > > >6) New gasket for the intake manifold.
> > > >7) cleaned the intake manifold by hand with carb cleaner
> > > >8) cleaned IAB valve per instructions on FAQ
> > > >9) cleaned intak on cylinder head with carb cleaner - basically a lot
> of
> > carb
> > > >cleaner all around.
> > > >
> > > >Put everything back together (as far as I know). On the intial key
> turn
> > the
> > > >engine starts quickly and dies just as all the other SHOs I have used
> > carb
> > > >cleaner to clean the intake. Turn the key again and engine just
turns
> > but
> > > >sounds pretty normal. Turn the key the third time and the engine
> spins.
> > I say
> > > >spin because it sounds more like someone pulled all the plugs out
> before
> > I
> > > >turned the key this last time. Engine seems to be turnning faster
now
> > and
> > > >with less resistance as if there is not much compression going on in
> the
> > > >engine.
> > > >
> > > >Pulled the KOEO codes since that is all the car will do now and all I
> get
> > is
> > > >111 (system pass) and 542 (fuel pump secondary circuit failure). The
> > second
> > > >code shows some promise but when I turn the key I can hear the fuel
> pump
> > > >charging so I believe the pump is working. Need to get my hands on a
> > > >compression gauge.
> > > >
> > > >HELP !!
> > > >Ken Johnson
> > > >'95 Blue MTX will not start
> > > >'91 Mocha Mocha runs fine
> > > >_______________________________________________
> > > >Shotimes mailing list
> > > >Shotimes@autox.team.net
> > > >http://www.team.net/mailman/listinfo/shotimes
> > > >
> > >
> > > --
> > >
> > > dond
> > > 91 Super SHO II
> > >
> > > All work & assembly done by yours truly : )
> > >
> > > -3.2 ATX block
> > > -FPS hi-flow heads w/ over sized valves
> > > -Stage I cams
> > > -SHONUT adjustable timing sprockets
> > > -Ported intake & runners
> > > -Ported and extrude honed exhaust manifolds
> > > -Hi-flow catless Y pipe
> > > -Hi-flow exhaust
> > > -BBB
> > > -SHO SHOP T.B.
> > > -SHONUT phenolic spacers
> > > -Quaife
> > > -CAI
> > > -UDP
> > > ****
> > > -Cowl hood
> > > -Momo 17x8 rims
> > > -Police grill
> > > -Custom two tone interior
> > > -Complete sunpro gauges
> > > oil temp / water temp / oil pressure
> > > ****
> > > -Tokico shocks/Eibach springs
> > > -Polyurethane at all corners
> > > -Solid-sub frame bushings
> > > -Frame stiffners
> > > -Adjustable rear control arms
> > > -Battery located in trunk for better weight distrubution
> > > ****
> > > -12" rotors at all four corners
> > > -Steel braided lines
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > _______________________________________________
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> > > Shotimes@autox.team.net
> > > http://www.team.net/mailman/listinfo/shotimes
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