[Shotimes] Misc related to subframe bushings

[Ron Porter]

Not sure where to start! I'll also copy this to SHOtimes, as there may be
some additional input.

Not sure what you mean by "one or two metal plates". The basic composition
is this:

Rears: Lower has a cupped metal plate where the bolt head resides, with the
rubber donut on top, The upper piece has a large metal washer against the
body, followed by the rubber donut, then a metal piece that looks like an
angel food cake dish that rests on the frame, with the metal center tube
pointed down. The center tube goes into the lower donut, and the bolt goes
through the middle.

Fronts: Lower again has the metal plate, with the donut. The upper also has
the large metal washer against the body, followed by a rubber donut.  The
angel food cake metal plate has four small bolts holding it to the subframe,
however, and the upper rubber donut has four slots that fit over the nuts
and bolt ends. Summer interns must have designed this POS!!

I believe that Kirk Doucette installs a new rear subframe bushing assembly
on the front of the subframe, replacing that bolted deal with the small
rubber upper donut. Makes a lot of sense to me, as I don't understand why
they designed the front that way (se Summer Intern comment above!!).

As far as the bolts spinning when they are part-way out (or if they don't
tighten all the way). Pull up the carpet on the footrest of either the
driver or passenger side. If you see a round, approx 2" rubber plug in the
floor......say "Hallelujah (sp?)". That means the bolt upgrade has been done
with the nuts (stronger and better) nuts, and you can pop the plug to get to
the nuts on the subframe bolts.

If you don't find the rubber plugs, do one of two things:

1.. Find a local friend with a SHO whose car has had the bolt upgrade done,
and look at the position of the rubber plugs. If you have a hole cutter
attachment for your drill, you can drill your own holes in the floorboard to
get to the nuts on top of the subframe bolts.

2.  If you don't have a SHO handy with the plugs, get the subframe bolt kit
from a dealer. As I understand, it explains where to drill the holes. In my
case, the LR nut popped loose on the green '95, but luckily the blue '94 had
the rubber plugs, so I got the position and just drilled a hole in the floor
of the '95 with my hole cutter. I was then able to reposition the nut over
the locating lugs, and get the bolt out.

Also, when installing the AL SFBs on the '94, the LF nut up in the frame
popped out when I was putting the bolt in. You CAN get to the nut, there is
a hole near the horns on the inside of the frame. I just bent one horn out
of the way. There is also a small hole on the outside of the frame that I
used to hold a big screwdriver to hold the nut in place (the locating tabs
for the nut were, I believe, too rusted to hold the nut in place). Short,
thin fingers would help, but my short, fat fingers still held things in
place until the bolt got tight!

Regarding the AL SFBs: See my previous post. They Rule!, but you must be
willing to put up with a rougher ride, plus you must tighten them down on a
regular basis.

Ron Porter

-----Original Message-----
From: Chris "Zap" [mailto:zap@columbus.rr.com]
Sent: Saturday, May 31, 2003 2:47 PM
To: Ron Porter
Subject: Re: [Shotimes] Misc related to subframe bushings



Ron,

    Since you seem to have some recent experience with the SFB's and
subframe work maybe you might be able to shed some light on a problem we're
still having with the '94 MTX.  Do the SFB's have one or two metal plates
before you get to the rubber on the side exposed to the road?  One of them
looks like hell (looks like a plate rusted through and there's a new one or
something put on below its remains).   I could probably take pictures of
this stuff, but I dont have access to a real decent camera.  Also,
concerning the subframe itself, have you run into the bolts not coming all
the way out on their own?  The passenger front bolt just spins the little
metal plate inside the "box" where it goes into when it's normally attached
fully.  The bolt is about halfway out.  I did ask this before, but I never
got a clear enough answer to figure out how the heck to fix it because I'm
very unfamiliar with this part of the car, never having worked on it before.

Also, I'm curious to know, what do you think of the Al SFB's and their
effects?

Thanks,
Chris
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ron Porter" <ronporter@prodigy.net>
To: "Shotimes" <shotimes@autox.team.net>
Sent: Saturday, May 31, 2003 12:52 PM
Subject: [Shotimes] Misc related to subframe bushings


> Much of this probably falls into the "Duh" file, but anyway...
>
> Had the dubious pleasure of swapping subframe bushings between the two
cars
> last weekend. The aluminum SFBs were in the green '95 that's being sold,
and
> they were swapped with the stock rubber bushings in the blue '94.
>
> The AL SFBs are about a year old, and I got the regular AL (not the
> anodized) from Jomar. More corrosion than I expected (which made removing
a
> couple of them an interesting experience!). I cleaned them up with some
> coarse sandpaper, and slopped them up with grease (better than nothing, I
> guess!), we'll see how they hold up. I would definitely recommend coating
> them, although the Jomar SFBs are quite a tight fit into the subframe and
> into each other, so not sure that painting would be beneficial, and
> powdercoating might be iffy (but could be worth a try).
>
> The '94 had what appeared to be original rubber SFBs. Not in TOO bad a
shape
> (they didn't disintegrate like the original '95 rubber bushings, nor the
> ones on Ryan Staley's '91). Obviously the collars that have those four
> little !#$%^& bolts in the front subframe are toast!! It's been said
before,
> but in a northern climate with snow/slush/salt, I feel that it would be a
> good idea to replace the SFBs every 4-5 years or so on cars that are daily

> drivers. Even putting in new factory rubber SFBs should keep the front end

a
> lot tighter.
>
> Ron Porter
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