[Shotimes] Clarification on: SHO cranking but not starting

Thu, 4 Mar 2004 10:00:46 -0500

To para-phrase my previous e-mail:

ALL STARTER MOTORS HAVE A SOLENOID INSIDE THE MOTOR.  Your engine couldn't
start if it wasn't there.

The solenoid RELAY is mounted on the fender of all pre-'91 Ford's.  All GM's
and '92-and-later Ford's use an integrated design.  How many wires go to the
starter on your '92?  Two I bet.  A heavy-gauge cable from the positve
battery terminal, and a smaller gauge wire that feeds the integrated RELAY.

My old 1980 Pontiac Grand Prix originally had a 301ci V-8 and had occasional
heat-soak starter problems.  When I installed the Pontiac 400ci V-8 it only
got worse.  I purchased a heat shield for the starter motor but that had
little effect.  M.A.D. Enterprises sold a kit that included a Ford-style
relay and the heavy-gauge battery cables for installation in a GM car.  That
worked the best but never totally cured the problem.

I like having the RELAY on the fender of my '91 - easy to troubleshoot
and/or replace.

James F. Ryan III

>-----Original Message-----
>From: shotimes-admin@autox.team.net
>[mailto:shotimes-admin@autox.team.net]On Behalf Of Carl Prochilo
>Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2004 9:13 AM
>To: Kirk Doucette
>Cc: kerbyh@netzero.net; shotimes@autox.team.net
>Subject: RE: [Shotimes] Clarification on: SHO cranking but not starting
>
>
>I thought that Gen 1s had the solenoid on the fender rail and that Gen 2s
>got the new starter design with the solenoid integrated into the starter
>itself.  At least that's the way my 92 is.  It still has the original
>starter, now almost 12 years old and 206K miles on it.
>--
>Cheers,
>Carl Prochilo
>1992 Ultra Red Crimson
>
>Kirk  Doucette said:
>> My 91 does, its mounted to the drivers fender rail :)
>>
>> Anyway.......   Anyone ever do a nice write up on converting
>over to the Gen
>> 2 Style starter in a Gen 1? Ive seen a few done but they are all pretty
>> messy.
>>
>> Kirk J Doucette
>> NESHOC President
>> Stormtrooper-97 White
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: shotimes-admin@autox.team.net
>[mailto:shotimes-admin@autox.team.net]On
>> Behalf Of kerbyh@netzero.net
>> Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 3:57 PM
>> To: vanOss@centurytel.net
>> Cc: jkoper@frankgates.com; shotimes@autox.team.net
>> Subject: Re: [Shotimes] Clarification on: SHO cranking but not starting
>>
>> Your 91 doesn't have a solenoid.  Hence the starter relay on the
>fender...
>>
>> Could be a bad starter Bendix(late 60's Ford were notorious for that) or
>> there is enough goop inside the starter to hinder the engaging mechanism
>> which uses the magnetic field of windings to activate.
>>
>> Kerby 'still on his original untouched starter' Haltom
>>
>> -- "van Oss" <vanOss@centurytel.net> wrote:
>> I think my 91's behavior might be similar to what Jim is asking about.
>> Sometimes the first time I turn the key, I will hear the
>high-pitched sound
>> of the starter motor turning, but it is not meshed to the
>flywheel.  Usually
>> on the second try, the engine starts normally.  I interpret this
>as a weak
>> starter solenoid.
>>
>> VO
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Koper Jim" <jkoper@frankgates.com>
>> To: <shotimes@autox.team.net>
>> Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 8:40 AM
>> Subject: [Shotimes] Clarification on: SHO cranking but not starting
>>
>>
>> Thanks to those that have offered their advice so far, but I
>think I didn't
>> word the problem correctly.
>>
>> To clarify, the engine turns over slowly but does not catch. The
>starter has
>> that high 'whir' sound--it does not seem to engage the  flywheel
>at all. The
>> portion of the flywheel I could see with the starter removed was
>not missing
>> any teeth, so wouldn't the (new) starter engage OK? If the
>starter is good
>> but the flywheel bad, would the engine even turn at all? That's
>why I wonder
>> if maybe the DIS or coil are bad. I gotta remember to check if
>the fuel pump
>> is priming at KOEO.
>>
>>
>> <Original post below for those who wish to contribute:>
>>
>> My '92 SHO is exhibiting a no-start behavior. I went to start it
>the other
>> day and it didn't quite catch after I released the ignition key. It was a
>> solid crank. "No big deal", I thought, "I'll try again." The
>second time I
>> tried it I heard an electric whirring sound, similar to when a starter is
>> bench tested. I figured the armature gear was not engaging the
>flywheel. The
>> starter was 4 years old (Ford reman), so I yanked it and put an Advanced
>> Auto Parts reman starter on the car. SAME WHIRRING SOUND occurred, so the
>> starter does not appear to be the weak link.
>>
>> A few observations:
>>
>> When the starter is whirring, I noticed the serpentine belt was turning,
>> though slower than what I'd think a normal crank would produce.
>>
>> The engine does not catch now, but does turn.
>>
>> Complete 60K done in summer 02 (10K miles ago). Timing belt,
>camshaft sensor
>> and crankshaft sensor replaced at that time.
>>
>> New plugs and wires recently.
>>
>> Until this happened, it always cranked solidly.
>>
>> Any ideas? Would the DIS be bad? Ignition switch on its way out? Fuel
>> injection concerns? I want to pull the timing belt cover to
>verify the belts
>> OK.
>>
>> Thanks in advance!
>>
>> Jim Koper
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