[TR] generator vs alternator

Mon Jul 10 11:57:17 MDT 2023

Greg

Ah yes, I recall Randall’s discussion on that.  It needs a Zener diode for 12VDC.  There are several areas Randall and I collaborated on electrical issues with Stags way back then.

I’ll do some searching on that to see if I can find the reference in the digest archives.

Thanks for rattling the brain cells!

Glenn Merrell, CAP

StagByTriumph Garage

aka Stag-By-Triumph Garage (on FaceBook)

Remember, “the BEST trophies are: Miles on the Odometer; Stone chips in the paint; and DEAD BUGS on the windscreen … with the occasional smell of manure!”

From: Greg Lemon <grglmn at gmail.com> 
Sent: Saturday, July 8, 2023 6:51 PM
To: stagbytriumph at triumphstagclub.org
Cc: Triumphs <triumphs at autox.team.net>
Subject: Re: [TR] generator vs alternator

Glenn, I had the same issue.  The turn signal light reverses polarity, flows one way for left and the other for right.  An incandescent doesn't care, but an LED does.  I had to add a little electric solid state doohickey to the circuit to make it work both ways.  Randall (RIP) helped me solve that mystery.  An electronics guru will be able to tell you what you need.  CZT or something like that.

Greg Lemon TR250

On Sat, Jul 8, 2023, 7:29 PM <stagbytriumph at triumphstagclub.org <mailto:stagbytriumph at triumphstagclub.org> > wrote:

Andrew,

Correct, an electronic three spade flasher works for having LED’s for turn signals and also the turn indicator.  

A caveat though to people looking for dash LED’s: there are some German made LED-s that have an al-u-min-e-um heat sink between the screw base and the lens.  It is the same height as the spring holding tabs on the metal socket, and when inserted into the insulated two wire style indicator lamp holder socket and pushed into the instrument socket (six of them), they short out one wire to ground.  Beware.  Always get the lower wattage non-heatsink style as they are plenty bright.  The only ones that does not matter are the instrument lighting circuit (Red with white tracer) because they use the instrument case as the ground path to the black wire screwed onto the instrument mounting post.

A dimmable 12VDC LED works for the IGN indicator, have not found one of those in a screw in E-10 base yet so still using an incandescent for the IGN indicator.

And if your instrument light plastic spring loaded socket is turning to cheese, we have some 3D printed solutions (see the Triumph Experience 3D printing forum) to easily repair the OE instrument sockets. 

So here is a challenge for the group I have not taken any time to look into as of yet:  

My TR250 dash green turn indicator flashes with the left turn but not the right turn.  All turn signals, LED front and rear signals function correctly.  The only issue is the green turn signal indicator in the gauge does not flash for right turns.  The electronic flasher unit has a good audible synthesized “clicking” when the turn signals are active both left and right turns.

Not yet ruled out some issue from the PO/DPM, or a ground wire I missed inside the harness when repairing a burnt Brown w/White wire on the harness.

Glenn aka StagByTriumph Garage

From: Triumphs <triumphs-bounces at autox.team.net <mailto:triumphs-bounces at autox.team.net> > On Behalf Of auprichard uprichard.net <http://uprichard.net> 
Sent: Saturday, July 8, 2023 1:25 PM
To: DAVID MASSEY <dave1massey at cs.com <mailto:dave1massey at cs.com> >; dave northrup <dave at ranteer.com <mailto:dave at ranteer.com> >; triumph list list <triumphs at autox.team.net <mailto:triumphs at autox.team.net> >
Subject: Re: [TR] generator vs alternator

OK, I was getting muddled between my TR250 which has numerous warning lamps and the TR3 which obviously only has two.

It is possible to get an LED for the flasher, as long as you get an LED-compatible flasher (which I did from LiteZupp).

But there was no alternative for the ignition lamp.

Andrew

From: DAVID MASSEY <dave1massey at cs.com <mailto:dave1massey at cs.com> > 
Sent: Saturday, July 8, 2023 12:52 PM
To: dave northrup <dave at ranteer.com <mailto:dave at ranteer.com> >; triumph list <triumphs at autox.team.net <mailto:triumphs at autox.team.net> >; auprichard uprichard.net <http://uprichard.net>  <auprichard at uprichard.net <mailto:auprichard at uprichard.net> >
Subject: Re: [TR] generator vs alternator

That is probably due to the fact that the flasher unit requires a minimum current to operate.  Since this is a three-terminal unit with the third wire for the dash indicator switching over to a two-terminal electronic flasher will not work.  And the electronic units may be Neg-Ground only.

Dave 

On Saturday, July 8, 2023 at 11:06:19 AM CDT, auprichard uprichard.net <http://uprichard.net>  <auprichard at uprichard.net <mailto:auprichard at uprichard.net> > wrote: 

All I can say is I just replaced all the bulbs in my latest TR3 with LEDs from LiteZupp but Mike said I’d have to stick with the original bulbs for the warning lamps.

From: Triumphs <triumphs-bounces at autox.team.net <mailto:triumphs-bounces at autox.team.net> > On Behalf Of dave northrup
Sent: Saturday, July 8, 2023 10:34 AM
To: triumph list list <triumphs at autox.team.net <mailto:triumphs at autox.team.net> >
Subject: Re: [TR] generator vs alternator

https://litezupp.com/ can replace every bulb in almost every car

From: auprichard uprichard.net <http://uprichard.net>  <auprichard at uprichard.net <mailto:auprichard at uprichard.net> > 
Sent: Thursday, July 6, 2023 9:18 AM
To: dave northrup <dave at ranteer.com <mailto:dave at ranteer.com> >; triumph list list <triumphs at autox.team.net <mailto:triumphs at autox.team.net> >
Subject: RE: generator vs alternator

I would take it to a local shop and have them test it – but that’s just me.

An alternator is a significant upgrade (you can have lights and wipers on at the same time), but it will require different pulleys if it is a narrow belt.  

I thought most alternator conversions were negative ground, but I may be wrong.  You can also stick with the generator and convert to negative ground for radios and other more modern electrical appliances.

Not sure about the reference to LEDs:  my understanding is  that there really is no LED alternative for the dash warning lights.

Andrew Uprichard

Jackson, Michigan

From: Triumphs <triumphs-bounces at autox.team.net <mailto:triumphs-bounces at autox.team.net> > On Behalf Of dave northrup
Sent: Thursday, July 6, 2023 9:25 AM
To: triumph list list <triumphs at autox.team.net <mailto:triumphs at autox.team.net> >
Subject: [TR] generator vs alternator

Recently picked up a 59 TR3 which has an alternator conversion.  Since the engine was separate, I have no idea how well the generator works or if at all.  It is still in the engine compartment, wires connected (unlike the engine).  how can I test it?

Given the current availability of LED lights, and since I have no interest in installing a radio, should I try to keep the current setup (little joke there) or go back to a generator?

Are there wiring diagrams for this car with a generator?  

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