This time I'm sending it with NO photos. Email me if you are interested.
Tim
The Black Butcher
-----Original Message-----
From: Tim Beloney [FAX:+1 (408) 111-1111] On Behalf Of Timothy Beloney
Sent: Saturday, October 03, 1998 10:58 AM
To: 'alpines(at)autox.team.net'
Subject: FW: A Better Idea than a Ford
Importance: High
Looks like this post never went through. Maybe too much data (or there is
some sort of filter to prevent graphics from taking up bandwidth) so I took
one of the photos off and decided to try again.
-----Original Message-----
From: Tim Beloney [FAX:+1 (408) 111-1111] On Behalf Of Timothy Beloney
Sent: Friday, October 02, 1998 9:52 AM
To: alpines(at)autox.team.net <mailto:alpines(at)autox.team.net>
Subject: RE: A Better Idea than a Ford
Well I guess I am about to be a guilty party soon. I will be taking my 99%
stock (funky interior panels) S2 and swapping out the engine for a modified
2.8 V6 with a T5 tranny and Tiger or revised Mustang rear end. I'm not
trying to make a "baby Tiger" or an "Alger", but I just want a car with a
little more pep and zing - and one that the wife will trust for long weekend
trips- that's not a Triumph, MG, or Alpha (though I like the '65 Alpha
1600).
If anyone out there is interested in having a "near pure" Alpine or just
can't stomach my "shredding" this one, you are welcome to buy it and I will
buy a "less pure" unit myself to "Fordify". I thoroughly understand where
you're coming from.
Here's some photos. No rust except on chrome and typical floorboard surface
rust, a few scratches, no accidents. You can save her for around $3k, or
you can just give me a hard time when we meet and she is a rumbling dark
blue machine. I really don't mind the ribbing (kinda like it) because I
think we're all generally good natured enthusiasts. I'm in Alameda, CA (SF
Bay).
Good 'beaming,
Tim
-----Original Message-----
From: kurt.eckert(at)tfn.com <mailto:kurt.eckert(at)tfn.com>
[mailto:kurt.eckert(at)tfn.com] <mailto:[mailto:kurt.eckert(at)tfn.com]>
Sent: Friday, October 02, 1998 6:03 AM
To: alpines(at)autox.team.net
<mailto:alpines(at)autox.team.net>
Subject: RE: A Better Idea than a Ford
Jeeeez Rex :),
With all that said, if you refer to the first line of my
e-mail it is a friend
upgrading a Ford Ranger pickup from a four to a six. It is
not Alpine related.
My Series III GT will always be powered by the original
Rootes 4-banger (not
that there is anything wrong with mangling you own Alpine).
Kurt
-----Original Message-----
From: Rex Funk [mailto:rexfunk(at)wizzards.net]
<mailto:[mailto:rexfunk(at)wizzards.net]>
Sent: Friday, October 02, 1998 2:14 AM
To: alpines(at)autox.team.net <mailto:alpines(at)autox.team.net>
Subject: A Better Idea than a Ford
Kurt Eckert Writes:
>A friend of mine wants to convert a Ford Ranger pickup from
a 4 cylinder up
to a
>2.8 V6. I believe that is the engine that alot of people on
the list are
putting
>into their Alpines. Does anyone have a lead on a running
example of one
that is
>in the Northeastern US?
I have restrained myself in commenting on this popular
engine swap, but I'm
going to stick my neck out and say that, while the Ford 2.8
V6 will power an
Alpine, it is far from the best choice. I mean nothing
personal to Kurt or
anyone who has done the swap, or is making money selling
kits to perform it.
In fact, I once owned a SV that had a Mustang II 2.8
partially (80%)
installed. I was
going to finish it, but after some research, wound up
selling the car. My
reasons are as follows.
First, the 2.8 V6 is rather unimpressive in stock form. The
stock pushrod
1725 cc Alpine engine puts out 92 hp., or about .87 hp./cu.
in. The stock
Ford Mustang II 2.8 (also a pushrod design) makes 105 hp, or
about .61
hp./cu. in. That's a gain of only 13 hp., or 14%, for all
that work (why
bother). You will have a larger de-tuned engine. True, you
can tune it.
You can also tune the Alpine engine and any other 4 cyl.
engine, if you want
to spend the money. While some tuning parts are available
for the 2.8,
there is no integrated aftermarket performance parts line
for this
engine. Also, tuning carried to the extreme and without
expensive testing,
causes an engine to lose its economy and street manners.
The later Fuel
Injected variants of the 2.8 put out 140 hp., but the FI
unit is very high,
and you'd have to cut the hood to fit it in an Alpine (this
probably applies
to your Ranger engine).
Second, installation requires modification and constriction
of the left-rear
exhaust header to clear the steering box. I get very
nervous when I see the
header within .5 in. of the steering box on most
installations. The engine
does shift when the car is driven hard, and the heat can't
do the steering
box much good. Also, there is usually nothing done to the
rest of the
header pipes to balance the constricted flow of the modified
rear exhaust
port. This could create a hot spot, and uneven pressure in
this cylinder.
If the other header pipes were constricted for balance, the
engine would
lose even more power. Add to that the need to run a
crossover pipe with two
right angle bends from the right bank of cylinders, and this
swap looks less
appealing.
Third, The installations I have seen required shearing of
the original
motor mounts from the crossmember, and construction of new
ones. This
seems a little extreme to me. While this is not
irreversible, it would be
difficult to return to the stock engine without a new
crossmember or serious
fabrication.
Fourth, many of the swaps I have seen employ an automatic
transmission,
which requires modifying the steering crosslink and cutting
the sheetmetal
to accomodate the bell housing. IMHO driving an Alpine with
an auto trans
is like kissing your sister. If you don't believe it, try
it both ways
(first ask your sister). There are 4 and 5 speeds available
for the 2.8,
but some of them (i.e. the Capri 4 spd.) are mickey mouse,
and none of them
fit the Alpine very well.
Fifth, (I'm on shaky ground here) some people think that by
doing the Ford
2.8 swap they will have a "baby Tiger". To them, a Ford
engine is somehow
more acceptable or "blessed" than some other make because
the Tiger used a
Ford engine. They rationalize that the swap won't harm the
value of the
car. To this I would say that no production Alpine ever had
a 6 cyl.
engine. As
time goes on, it is getting harder to find a stock Alpine,
or one
that can be returned to stock easily (stock Tigers are even
rarer). I would
be very surprised if this mod, alone, would enhance the
value of a car over
a stock car in good condition.
Before Carrol Shelby got involved, there was an attempt to
find a
high-output 4 cyl. engine for the Alpine. The Alfa Romeo
DOHC and Lotus
Twincam were candidates. IMHO (again) this would have been
an evolutionary
improvement which was true to the Alpine's original concept,
and could have
made the Alpine a force.
So what's my prescription? First, drive the car a while
with a good stock
engine. I can attest that a stock Alpine is fast enough to
get you into
all the
trouble that you can handle with the radar cops. Be very
sure you want to
do an engine swap rather than modify the Alpine engine.
Jarrid has put the
whole thing in perspective in a previous thread: a 115 to
120 hp. Alpine
engine is very attainable, and costs go up exponentially
above that.
If you just can't resist your lust for more horsepower, opt
for a REVERSABLE
swap involving a high output 4 cyl. engine and 5 sped trans,
and save the
stock drive line for a future owner (you may even come to
your senses and
want to go back to stock). This not only gives more power,
but an overdrive
as well, and you don't have to butcher sheet metal. I have
been researching
engines
for over 5 years, and have a list of likely suspects.
Rex Funk
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