I talked to Steve last night at great length about this subject. I faxed him
and he
called me back later in the evening east coast time.
The result of the conversation was this. It is not about how you limit traction
per se.
it is about having something other than the driver modulate power applied to
the rear
wheels that can change dynamically during the run such as many of the things i
suggested, rev limiter variable boost etc. A slip indicator is fine from what
he told
me Al Teague has one installed in his car that Gale Banks did for him. I don't
know
this to be right or wrong other than what I was told and I have absolutely no
reason to
doubt Steve. You can have something that is wheel speed related that does not
change
the power during the run according to wheels spin though. One of the things i
wanted to
explore is legal. That is boost vs. gear selected which he said in his mind was
similar
to a multi-stage nitrous system. I would fax him for further specifics if you
have any
other ideas.
My overall impression is that he is a good guy trying to keep the rule
structure so
everyone can have some fun without spending a lot of money but he seemed to
agree that
a lot of people were spending a lot of money now so the days of doing this for
a few
bucks in your garage are not as common anymore. Speed costs money to a certain
degree
and we all want to go faster last time I checked.. The whole subject of TC I
think is
still open for discussion and i personally am not going to let it die. What I
am going
to do is use what I was told i can do now and keep an open dialog about it in
the the
future with Steve. I think a major part of the rule now is perceived cost to
do a
reasonably good job of it. maybe the same was true about data acq at the time
that was
first introduced. Can some one enlighten me on that issue? Then next thing I
think is
to draw up and make a couple of slip indicators and use them as a test bed to
see how
much slip there is. it will be a simple matter to add the circuitry to make
them a TC
unit later for little cost so the entire effort will not be lost. It will also
give a
good idea if it can be done analog which i think it can, and if so it will be
done for
a lot less than a digital system. Digital might be the most versatile system in
the end
but the most expensive and right now I get the feeling this is a cost issue as
much as
anything else. if it can be done for a few hundred dollars I think the money
issues
will have to be set aside and then it will get down to an issue over what
classes if
any and what issues of driver vs. the spirit of the LSR racing ideas. Sure hope
at some
point it can be made legal for special construction cars! In my mind they are
the no
holds barred take no prisoners type of LSR racing.. A perfect place for the
latest
technology.
Dave
Dave Dahlgren wrote:
> Dave Dahlgren
> 2 Ashby Street
> Mystic, CT. 06355
> 860-536-6125 daytime
> 860-536-7235 fax
> ddahlgren@snet.net
>
> Monday, December 03, 2001
>
> Attention: Steve Batchelor / SCTA tech
>
> Reference: traction control definition
>
> Steve I am looking for a definition as to what constitutes traction
>control
> in a vehicle raced at Bonneville. To my understanding traction control as is
> used on most vehicles involves the use of either applying the brakes at one or
> more wheels to reduce the speed of the wheels that is spinning. Is this the
> same definition that is used by the SCTA ?
>
> To my knowledge I can do all of the following without breaking any rules in
> most classes other than a few vintage ones, please correct me if I am wrong.
>
> 1. Engage the rev limiter for the engine whenever I want to limit the speed of
> the engine.
> 2. Use a mechanical or electronic device to change the ignition timing when
> it is not at a desired setting.
> 3. Use a mechanical or electronic device to control the fuel mixture when it
> is not at a desired setting.
> 4. Use a mechanical or electronic device to regulate the boost from a
> supercharged or turbo charged engine when it is not at a desired setting.
> 5. Use a clutch that does not lock up completely or does so with varying
> amounts according to rpm and other factors.
> 6. Disengage the nitrous system or vary the amount of nitrous delivered
> electronically according to time and other factors.
> 7. Use a mechanical or electronic device to change the engine operation in any
> way when at different speeds, rpms or different gears.
> 8. Use a mechanical or electronic device to change what gear I have engaged(
> automatic transmission, air shifter and other related ways).
>
> Things that I understand have to be in a drivers control are,
>
> 1. Steering
> 2. Brakes
> 3. Throttle
>
> This list is not allowing for the obvious fire bottles, seatbelt release,
> canopy release and other safety items. It is my understanding that that as
> long as the driver has full control of those three items I have not broken any
> rules regarding traction control. The other things in the list of eight items
> are done on a routine basis for whatever reason the car builder might want or
> the engine builder though necessary and present no inherent safety issues
> either good or bad and really take very little control away from the driver. I
> also make the assumption as to when the rule was made regarding traction
> control the mechanism that was employed at the time and deemed either
> dangerous or unfit was the implementation of single wheel brakes under some
> control that was not the drivers control. Please correct me on this and
> anything else here that I may not have a proper understanding concerning the
> scope of the rule or the original intention. I have the understanding when
> reading the rules that I may engage rev limiters and boost controls along with
> everything else in the top list of eight items at any time I chose for
> whatever reason I see fit as an engine builder or car builder. Please give me
> SCTA's view on this matter. It has started to seem as though anything that
> might change the power output of the engine is now construed to be traction
> control. Most anything that changes the engine or drive line operation is by
> nature traction control if it changes the amount of torque at the drive
> wheels. Most of these items to my knowledge are legal if you change what they
> are called.
>
> Slider clutch limits torque at the rear wheels by not locking up completely
> with no driver input.
>
> Automatic transmission selects the drive gear by measure speed differentials
> and selecting the proper gear changing the torque at the rear wheels.
>
> Turbo chargers by nature of operation change boost pressure when the engine
> sees a different load without driver intervention.
>
> Nitrous systems that are progressive limit the amount of power output and vary
> the torque applied to the rear wheels without driver intervention.
>
> I could come up with a very long list but will not bore you with endless
> lists.
>
> Please advise me of what constitutes traction control according to the SCTA
> rulebook and please be as specific as possible with any examples so any future
> problems might be avoided.
>
> Thank you,
>
> Dave Dahlgren
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