Glen:
1. I was talking about Speed Week; there were no return runs from the north
end.
2. W/resp. to the rubber marks-- I saw them at various places, including the
(south) starting line areas. Also a couple in and around the pit area, if I
recall correctly. I didn't mean to imply that I saw rubber marks the same place
that I was seeing the evidence of high speed traction problems. I didn't see
them there.
3. When I was inspecting part of the long course after they had shut down on
Friday of Speed Week, I was really at about the "beginning" of the "big end".
I was directly across from our pit, which was barely "downstream" from the
3-mile marker.
4. I don't recall any of our group mentioning seeing any severe handling
problems directly across from our pits-- and there was someone there spectating
almost all the time-- even when we were gone running the car. And I saw no
evidence of spins when I inspected that (3-mile) vicinity of the course (I know
what they look like-- I've been known to make them!). Nor did I see any
evidence of any other severe side-load on any of the tire marks. I was,
however, somewhat surprised that very few of the tracks actually went in a
straight line. Some seemed to be wandering around quite a bit!
5. I realize that other people inspect the course after every event, and that
some have had long experience doing that. But I doubt if many of them are
looking specifically for evidence of high speed traction problems. And the only
people I saw on the course on foot were obviously involved in "policing" the
course for debris.
I am a professional inspector, nationally certified at the highest levels
(Visual, as well as other NDT Methods). I know how to conduct an examination,
and how to analyze the results. Most of my income comes from evaluating how
well other people inspect, and either accepting or rejecting their applications
for certification as inspectors.
When I examined the course, I was not looking for debris or environmental
problems. I was specifically looking for evidence of traction problems at high
speed. I am convinced that I found it.
Russ Mack
glen barrett wrote:
> RT
> If I am correct in your statement that you inspected the long course / big
> end I assume you mean the 5 mile and beyond. The black marks are most likely
> the tire marks from cars returning from the far end on record return runs.
> There are two starting lines at that end as well and the extreme far end the
> salt was a little softer. I too examined the courses after the two events
> and found this to be the conditions. The speed week course we ran one
> direction only and I didn't see much in the way of tire marks at the far end
> except for spins, and a few long almost spins.
> Glen
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "rtmack" <RTMACK@pop3.concentric.net>
> To: "Dave Dahlgren" <ddahlgren@snet.net>
> Cc: "Marge and/or Dave Thomssen" <mdthom@radiks.net>; "Land-speed Racers"
> <land-speed@autox.team.net>
> Sent: Saturday, December 15, 2001 10:13 AM
> Subject: Re: Fw: Mickey Thompson
>
> > Dave D./ Dave T.:
> > I haven't been over 400 on the salt-- or even over 200. I think the
> over-400 guys
> > spend all their time on their cars, and don't have much left for
> "bench-racing" with
> > us on this list.
> >
> > I was on the salt for two of the meets this summer, however. And I spent
> as much
> > time as I could studying the cars, the salt, and the reaction of one to
> the other.
> >
> > I was told that the salt was exceptionally good this year. My initial
> observation
> > was that it seemed pretty firm and dry, with just a light sprinkle of
> "sugar" on the
> > surface. And I also saw the tire "burnout" marks in several places, as
> Dave D.
> > mentioned.
> >
> > But at 130mph I could feel the tires of my own car spinning.
> >
> > When I inspected a part of the "long course"/"big-end" after speed week, I
> found
> > evidence everywhere of drive-tire slippage. One place looked like the
> exit from a
> > turn on a clay "circle-track" (except that it was white, of course). And
> some of
> > the tracks were over an inch deep-- still with indication of wheelspin.
> What that
> > said to me is that even with big downforce (whether aero, or ballast)--
> some of the
> > cars can't get enough traction to reach their speed potential. I assumed
> these were
> > the cars with the most horsepower per axle-- and some were those potential
> absolute
> > wheel-driven record cars that you are referring to.
> >
> > To me, the email you mentioned from T. Burkland seems to support this
> theory.
> >
> > So-- even though Dave Thomssen's response was rather casual, I still tend
> to believe
> > that he has identified one of the most important barriers (if not the most
> > important) to big increases in the absolute wheel-driven record.
> >
> > Russ Mack
> >
> >
> >
> > Dave Dahlgren wrote:
> >
> > > So much for intelligent conversation !!!!!!!!!!
> > > You told me to think about it . Did you??
> > >
> > > Ask a question in all seriousness ... well you know the rest... maybe
> some one
> > > that does know the answer or have something to say that is helpful or
> thoughtful
> > > will reply..
> > >
> > > BTW.. have seen little sanding water lately and the salt is so hard you
> can
> > > leave rubber on it so an interesting thought you had but it makes no
> sense at
> > > all...
> > >
> > > Lets go for something serious..
> > > How many of you guys out there can piss up a wall over your head?
> > >
> > > Dave Dahlgren
> > >
> > > Marge and/or Dave Thomssen wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Think about it: We race on a hard surface covered with mush and
> standing
> > > > water.
> > > > Dave the Hayseed
> > > >
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: "Dave Dahlgren" <ddahlgren@snet.net>
> > > > To: "Malcolm Pittwood" <MPittwood@compuserve.com>
> > > > Cc: "LSR List" <land-speed@autox.team.net>
> > > > Sent: Saturday, December 15, 2001 6:30 AM
> > > > Subject: Re: Mickey Thompson
> > > >
> > > > > I don't mean to belittle going 400+ mph in any way, but something
> has
> > > > occurred
> > > > > to me over the years. The progress in the unlimited cars has been
> very
> > > > slow.
> > > > > Does anyone have some insight why this is? It seems like cars were
> going
> > > > 400+ in
> > > > > '47 and to date the best improvement has been this year at just
> under 460
> > > > and
> > > > > the piston record is only about 6 mph better than '47.. Is it lack
> of
> > > > entries,
> > > > > lack of technology, or have we reached the limit of adhesion to go
> much
> > > > faster?
> > > > > Certainly we have the power available. Does anyone know what the
> speeds
> > > > were on
> > > > > Vesco's 458 run on a by mile basis as well as the others that have
> run in
> > > > this
> > > > > range. It might be interesting to plot the acceleration rates for
> each
> > > > mile and
> > > > > see if there is something in common with all of them.. I am starting
> to
> > > > think it
> > > > > all comes down to where the rubber meets the salt as when I last got
> an
> > > > e-mail
> > > > > from Tom Burkland he mentioned running 450 at 53% throttle so it is
> not
> > > > about
> > > > > power available in my mind it might be about 'sticktion' though. May
> be we
> > > > > sometimes have to just close the hood and see what is the real
> problem....
> > > > >
> > > > > I would love to hear from those that have run in the 400 and over
> range
> > > > what
> > > > > they think is the next big hurdle to going faster if they would like
> to
> > > > share
> > > > > their thoughts with the rest of us...
> > > > > Dave Dahlgren
> > > > >
> > > > > Malcolm Pittwood wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Whilst correcting an error from the family press release (which is
> also
> > > > > > published in many magazines and books), I would not want this list
> to
> > > > think
> > > > > > that I would wish to take away anything from MT's achievements in
> motor
> > > > > > sport - be it on the salt, drag strip or dirt.
> > > > > > I guess that this hot rodder and his Challenger 1 car did more to
> affect
> > > > > > Donald Campbells speed record activities in the early '60's than
> anyone
> > > > > > else.
> > > > > > Its just a shame that one way speeds become described as 'one way
> > > > records'
> > > > > > over time.
> > > > > > 406 mph if backed up would have affected every wheel driven team
> until
> > > > the
> > > > > > Vesco's and Burkland's got motoring.
> > > > > > Malcolm Pittwood, Derby, England.
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