James H. Nazarian wrote:
>
> You, my friend, have a lot to learn (IMHO).
James, nothing personal, but your opinion is not and probably never has
been humble, from what I've seen on the list so far. I would be willing
to bet you are not so abrasive nor inflexible in your behavior at work
or among people who are actually present, right in front of you. The
anonymity and distance provided by e-mail forums sometimes leads of
excesses and offenses.
If you and I had met in person at an MG club meeting or concert or
coffee shop, we might have got along just fine, but I'll take the
liberty to suggest that you might tone down the heat of the postings on
the list, even though I'm a rank newbie here and you seem to be well
known.
Your statement that I have a lot to learn is undoubtedly true; this is
the condition of a conscious, growing organism such as myself. The
implication, however, is that you may possibly be the one to teach me,
or perhaps just that you do *not* have a lot to learn or know more than
I do.
Want to have a references war? credentials contest? relevant knowledge
competition?
I'm willing, but I only engage in these when M of Q rules are observed:
no personal attacks; no deleterious characterizations; no unreferenced
statements. By the way, ever hear the old punchline: "The pig loves
it?" ;)
> You might be amazed at the
> residues of junk that remain in your hydraulic system after a fluid
> replacement.
Not in mine, I assure you. If brake fluid were Scotch, you would love
the stuff out of The Luggage. Der Toyful, the Victor TF, was not built
by me, so until I have entirely redone the brake and clutch system, I
fully expect them to be at least slightly contaminated with crap. On the
other hand, within the first days I began to drive the car, I popped it
up on the jacks and did two wheel cylinders, a flex line and gravity
drained the brake system and then forced about a gallon of fresh fluid
through it, so it might pass for potable rotgut gin using the former
analogy.
> Ever hear of surface tension, and viscosity? Want an illustration
> of how the stuff can cling? Fill a metal cup with any flavor brake fluid; DOT
> 3, 4, or 5; Empty the cup, and return a while later to see how much has
> adhered to the sides. Well, it is many times worse with small diameter tubing.
> Drain all your hydraulics. Blow the lines out with low pressure air. Refill
> the system and bleed it. Think you got it cleaned out??? Do it again in a few
> months and see what you get.
A few months is long enough for flex-line rubber to deteriorate a bit,
water to be absorbed as the system "breathes" because of temperature
changes, minute particles of contaminants to be introduced into the
lines from the movement of the piston seals. The test would be to check
it the day after.
> If this method is standard operating procedure on American cars, it explains a
> number of things. Do yourself and those with whom you share the road a
> life-saving favor. Call any or all manufacturers of brake fluid, tell them
> your suggestion and ask how they feel about reuse of brake fluid. You'll hear
> an emphatic " DON'T ! "
James, I am not recommending, nor did I ever recommend, re-using brake
fluid. I am referring to the only sure method of achieving a hard pedal
on an LBC. If you use the pump-up, loosen bleeder, "squirt," tighten
bleeder, do it again, method, you will never get a truly hard pedal and
you will have lots of crap in your lines, since they never get
completely flushed out. If you drain and refill, then use the
recirculating method, you get a clean system and a hard pedal. If you
get rusty, contaminated fluid out when you drain, if you have owned this
car more than a month or two, I would recommend a couple of dozen "Mea
Culpas," a complete rebuild of the brake system and another couple dozen
"Thank you, Gods" because you lived to accomplish it. Stopping is
important.
> Don't count on seeing dirt in a "clear" plastic tube as someone pumps the
> pedal. The fluid velocity is too high for anyone but Superman to see anything
> less than the size of a golf ball sail by. Another purpose of changing the
> fluid (DOT 3 & 4 only) is to deal with a well known drawback of those brake
> fluids: they are hydrophilic; they attract water. Water in your brake lines
> will corrode metal parts. The old fluid is contaminated with moisture and
> particulates; get rid of it.
Well, I disagree with the first statement since it's contary to my
experience. I'm 62 and I just now, in the last six months, have finally
had to buy reading glasses for when the print is fine and the light is
not, but I can still see a speck of dust or microbubble going down the
line. Something that might help is that the optical qualities of the
clear line and fluid tend to magnify anything in the fluid. I also said
pump the pedal slowly.
> So, you've rebuilt many master cylinders but haven't noticed any tiny
> orifices. That is truly frightening. They are there; if you haven't seen them,
> you are not doing a very thorough job of rebuilding. What you are doing is
> potentially dangerous. Because you have been doing something wrong for a long
> time does not make it right; it makes it a bad habit that you should break. I
> can provide photos of the interior of an MGA master cylinder, clearly showing
> the orifices you doubt the existence of. If any MGA 1500 or 1600 listers want
> to see it, along with instructions for a complete rebuild, you'll have to
> e-mail me direct. Unfortunately, I do not have a comparable package for the
Why don't you post them to a web site and then post the URL to the list?
Perhaps one of the problems of our attempt to communicate is that terms
like microscopic, tiny, enormous, big, etc. are amenable to private
interpretation. I reiterate and refine my statement that I have never
seen any orifices in Mini or Sprite or MGA master cylinders that any
sort of microparticle would clog. I also repeat that there are no bits
of a size to worry me in any system I build or maintain.
> The frequency with which you claim to do hydraulic fluid changes is
> commendable. I guess your cars must certainly have among the cleanest
> hydraulic systems in the world, and moisture in your brake lines is probably
> held to a minimum. After all, how much moisture can collect in six months.
> But. . . you are still wrong to use a fluid recirculation method, and even
> worse to recommend it to others; only one itty bitty speck of dirt, or rust is
> necessary to disable the brakes. Have pity on those with whom you share the
> road.
I disagree with this entire paragraph. The word, "claim" says I might be
lying. The frequency with which I change brake fluid is just good sense,
not exemplary, considering how important the brakes are, especially if
you are a madman like I can be when I have a deserted road to myself or
an afternoon at the track.
James, I apologize in advance if this concluding comment seems like a
personal attack; that is not my intention. I feel that I have a right to
reply not only to your messages, but also their tone.
I have come to suspect that, rather than being mortally concerned for
the safety of the list members, maybe you just like to scold people and
be an authority. I assure you: I am 62, non-violemnt, small and frail,
but *nobody* takes that tone with me when they are standing in front of
me *ever*. If this response provokes an attack on my sanity, wisdom,
character or parentage, please take it off-list to e-mail or a personal
meeting. If you would like to continue the discussion, without
continuing to characterize me as a careless, dangerous fool, I love a
good civilized, courteous debate based on concepts and experience. If
that happens, it's up to the list whether it appears here or not.
-Rock
--
Rocky, JJ Cale Band & Pratchett Books: http://www.rocky-frisco.com
Rocky's Mini Cooper Page: http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/6437/
Mini Books: http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/6437/rockboox.html
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