--===============7878529568524708055==
--000000000000c4e5c50577b5859f
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Youse said - I=E2=80=99ve only had the car running for two weeks all year=
=E2=80=A6 kind of
running out of nice weather=E2=80=A6
Wait, don't you live in California where it is nice all year round?! (Other
than fires) ;-)
Dan D
'76B, '65B
Central NJ USA
http://dandibiase.cbintouch.com/
On Sun, Oct 7, 2018 at 8:24 PM Max Heim via Mgs <mgs@autox.team.net> wrote:
> Here=E2=80=99s what Joey at MoMa Instrument Repair had to suggest:
>
> "It means that the movement itself is deformed that is why it=E2=80=99=
s way out
> of calibration. Some of those we can repair by reshaping the movement
> carefully or just replace the movement. It=E2=80=99s not an easy fix at a=
ll. You
> can send it and it will all depend on the extent of the damage if we can
> repair or replace movement. Thanks Joey"
>
> =E2=80=A6which sounds kind of like what I was suggesting. Damn. The probl=
em is,
> the car is undriveable with the gauge removed =E2=80=94 it leaves an open=
passage
> to both coolant and oil. I=E2=80=99ve only had the car running for two we=
eks all
> year=E2=80=A6 kind of running out of nice weather=E2=80=A6 Grr.
>
> I think I may try to buy a good one to swap in while having this one
> repaired, then sell one later.
>
> --
> Max Heim
> '66 MGB
>
> On Oct 7, 2018, at 4:38 PM, Max Heim <mvheim@sonic.net> wrote:
>
> How could the capsule get damaged?
>
> I unscrewed it from the head, and gently pulled the tube out of the way.
> Then I replaced it after replacing the head.
>
> Unfortunately, it never occurred to me to see what the gauge was reading
> while the head was off and the capsule was resting on the inner fender.
>
> I=E2=80=99m not sure what the test would demonstrate. I already know it r=
esponds
> to temperature changes, so the capillary tube is not broken. The problem
> seems to be at the gauge end. I just can=E2=80=99t figure out what that w=
ould be.
>
> I know there is a flattened tube rolled into a coil inside the gauge.
> Could it have unrolled beyond its intended limit during the overheating
> episode, and is now hung up on some protuberance inside the housing,
> preventing it from recoiling?
>
>
> --
> Max Heim
> mvheim@sonic.net
>
>
>
> On Oct 7, 2018, at 3:49 PM, B H <mgbobh@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Yours has the non-electric temp sender and gauge?
> If it does, the gauge is moved by pressure of expanding ether in the
> little capsule that is screwed into the engine. If it reads 220 from the
> beginning, my guess is that the capsule got squeezed or the tube damaged
> during the R&R.
> Test by removing capsule from engine, and putting it into a pan of hot
> water. Check the temp with your hand-held thermometer.
> Bob
>
>
> On Sun, Oct 7, 2018 at 6:30 PM Max Heim via Mgs <mgs@autox.team.net>
> wrote:
>
>> I just got the engine back together, but now the temperature gauge is
>> malfunctioning.
>>
>> It seems to have got stuck at about 220. That=E2=80=99s what it was read=
ing
>> before I even tried to start the car. After warming up to operating temp
>> (estimated, of course), the gauge had climbed into the oil pressure zone=
,
>> reading at 85 psi. At this point my cheap temp gun had the thermostat
>> housing at around 180.
>>
>> Anyone seen this before? Any suggestions?
>>
>>
>> --
>> Max Heim
>> '66 MGB
>>
>> On Sep 26, 2018, at 9:11 AM, Max Heim via Mgs <mgs@autox.team.net> wrote=
:
>>
>> Actually, when we finally got to my house, we swapped the luggage into m=
y
>> 1967 Barracuda convertible and headed up the freeway to catch up with th=
e
>> Melee. Reached the first night=E2=80=99s stop in Red Bluff by 7pm.
>>
>> Not the first participants to have to pull in a backup vehicle=E2=80=A6
>>
>> The plastic blade didn=E2=80=99t directly =E2=80=9Cpuncture=E2=80=9D the=
radiator, actually. But
>> it was trapped inside the shroud, and wound up smashing several tubes ri=
ght
>> where they enter the top and bottom tanks (the blade being caught on the
>> lip of the tank at each revolution, I think). I didn't even know that it
>> had thrown a blade until I started disassembly =E2=80=94 I was assuming =
the 50+
>> year old radiator had just suddenly developed a stress crack after being
>> transferred from one body to another.
>>
>> With 5 or 6 tubes mangled top and bottom, it lost coolant instantly, and
>> the radiator shop said it was irreparable other than by completely recor=
ing
>> it.
>>
>> --
>> Max Heim
>> '66 MGB
>>
>> On Sep 26, 2018, at 3:56 AM, Dan DiBiase <dan.dibiase@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> A bummer that you couldn't participate in the melee, Max, I bet you were
>> disappointed. Good recovery by Moss, though.
>>
>> Just tells you how fast these things spin, for a plastic blade to
>> puncture a metal radiator!
>>
>> Dan D
>> '76B, '65B
>> Central NJ USA
>> http://dandibiase.cbintouch.com/
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Sep 25, 2018 at 11:36 PM Max Heim via Mgs <mgs@autox.team.net>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I haven=E2=80=99t said much on the list about my project. but I got my =
=E2=80=9Cnew=E2=80=9D 66
>>> B roadster together in time for the start of the California Melee on Se=
pt.
>>> 8. Unfortunately, a blade flew off the new Moss plastic fan within the
>>> first ten miles and punctured the radiator, so that was as far as it go=
t =E2=80=94
>>> from the San Francisco Presidio to Marin Civic Center.
>>>
>>> I made the mistake of trying to get it to the next exit (it was a bad
>>> place to be on the shoulder, between the sound wall and 5 lanes of traf=
fic
>>> doing 75+), which resulted in overheating and a blown head gasket. Tota=
l
>>> mileage to failure on this fan was 307 miles.
>>>
>>> Subsequent examination of the stub revealed an air pocket in the plasti=
c
>>> right at the center of the base of the blade. Moss accepted my photo of
>>> this as evidence of a manufacturing flaw. This model of fan was already=
out
>>> of production (and out of warranty) =E2=80=94 I had purchased it as par=
t of a large
>>> order back in 2015 when the car body was still in the paint shop.
>>>
>>> But regardless, they decided to send me a new fan ("new model" nylon
>>> 7-blade fan) and a new aluminum radiator (the shop had told me mine was
>>> irreparable). I thought this was pretty decent of them.
>>>
>>> I just picked up my head at the machine shop where they had skimmed the
>>> surface and cleaned up the valves. In the meantime I had inspected the
>>> lifters based on a tip from Dave at British Motorsports in Campbell and
>>> found a few of them were showing pitting. By replacing them now I can s=
ave
>>> the cam.
>>>
>>> Now I just need to pick up the lifters and the gasket set and I should
>>> be able to have it back together this weekend.
>>>
>>> A few tips based on my experience:
>>>
>>> 1. Just shut it down. If I had stayed out on the freeway verge I would
>>> have saved the head gasket, and AAA would have picked me up in a timely
>>> manner. But since I had reported myself =E2=80=9Csafe=E2=80=9D and off =
the highway, it took
>>> 4 hours to get a tow.
>>>
>>> 2. Check your lifters every so often. I had replaced the cam and lifter=
s
>>> due to lifter spalling sometime between 1998 and 2010. The new lifters =
were
>>> just starting to pit in 2018.
>>>
>>> 3. If you have a yellow plastic 7-bladed fan from Moss USA purchased
>>> prior to mid-2015, you may want to consider retiring it. I suppose if i=
t
>>> hasn=E2=80=99t broken so far, it probably doesn=E2=80=99t have air bubb=
les in a critical
>>> location. But they had perhaps a dozen reported incidents. The current
>>> product being sold as part #434-332 is a different pattern by a differe=
nt
>>> maker in a different material, so should not be a cause for worry.
>>>
>>> Buy British, Buy Best!
>>>
>>> --
>>> Max Heim
>>> '66 MGB
>>> _______________________________________________
>>>
>>> Mgs@autox.team.net
>>> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
>>> Suggested annual donation $12.75
>>>
>>> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/mgs
>>>
>>> Unsubscribe:
>>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/dan.dibiase@gmail.com
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>> Mgs@autox.team.net
>> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
>> Suggested annual donation $12.75
>>
>> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/mgs
>>
>> Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/mvheim@sonic.net
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>> Mgs@autox.team.net
>> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
>> Suggested annual donation $12.75
>>
>> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/mgs
>>
>> Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/mgbobh@gmail.com
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> Mgs@autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation $12.75
>
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/mgs
>
> Unsubscribe:
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/dan.dibiase@gmail.com
>
--000000000000c4e5c50577b5859f
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<div dir=3D"ltr">Youse said -=C2=A0
I=E2=80=99ve only had the car running for two weeks all year=E2=80=A6 kind =
of running out of nice weather=E2=80=A6=C2=A0<div><br></div><div>Wait, don&=
#39;t you live in California where it is nice all year round?! (Other than =
fires)=C2=A0 ;-)</div><div><br></div><div>Dan D</div><div>'76B, '65=
B</div><div>Central NJ USA=C2=A0<br clear=3D"all"><div><div dir=3D"ltr" cla=
ss=3D"gmail_signature" data-smartmail=3D"gmail_signature"><div dir=3D"ltr">=
<a href=3D"http://dandibiase.cbintouch.com/"; target=3D"_blank">http://dandi=
biase.cbintouch.com/</a></div></div></div><br></div></div><br><div class=3D=
"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr">On Sun, Oct 7, 2018 at 8:24 PM Max Heim via =
Mgs <<a href=3D"mailto:mgs@autox.team.net";>mgs@autox.team.net</a>> wr=
ote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;=
border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div style=3D"word-wrap:break-=
word">Here=E2=80=99s what Joey at MoMa Instrument Repair had to suggest:<di=
v><br></div><div>=C2=A0 =C2=A0"It means that the movement itself is de=
formed that is why it=E2=80=99s way out of calibration. Some of those we ca=
n repair by reshaping the movement carefully or just replace the movement. =
It=E2=80=99s not an easy fix at all. You can send it and it will all depend=
on the extent of the damage if we can repair or replace movement. Thanks J=
oey"</div><div><br></div><div>=E2=80=A6which sounds kind of like what =
I was suggesting. Damn. The problem is, the car is undriveable with the gau=
ge removed =E2=80=94 it leaves an open passage to both coolant and oil. I=
=E2=80=99ve only had the car running for two weeks all year=E2=80=A6 kind o=
f running out of nice weather=E2=80=A6 Grr.</div><div><br></div><div>I thin=
k I may try to buy a good one to swap in while having this one repaired, th=
en sell one later.</div><div><br><div>
<div style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-=
indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;word-wra=
p:break-word"><div style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);letter-spacing:normal;text-ali=
gn:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacin=
g:0px;word-wrap:break-word"><div style=3D"margin:0px;font-size:13px">--</di=
v><div style=3D"margin:0px;font-size:13px;min-height:16px">Max Heim</div><d=
iv style=3D"margin:0px;font-size:13px">'66 MGB</div></div></div>
</div>
<br><div><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div>On Oct 7, 2018, at 4:38 PM, Max Hei=
m <<a href=3D"mailto:mvheim@sonic.net"; target=3D"_blank">mvheim@sonic.ne=
t</a>> wrote:</div><br class=3D"m_-1158636474461823897Apple-interchange-=
newline"><div><div style=3D"word-wrap:break-word">How could the capsule get=
damaged?<div><br></div><div>I unscrewed it from the head, and gently pulle=
d the tube out of the way. Then I replaced it after replacing the head.</di=
v><div><br></div><div>Unfortunately, it never occurred to me to see what th=
e gauge was reading while the head was off and the capsule was resting on t=
he inner fender.</div><div><br></div><div>I=E2=80=99m not sure what the tes=
t would demonstrate. I already know it responds to temperature changes, so =
the capillary tube is not broken. The problem seems to be at the gauge end.=
I just can=E2=80=99t figure out what that would be.</div><div><br></div><d=
iv>I know there is a flattened tube rolled into a coil inside the gauge. Co=
uld it have unrolled beyond its intended limit during the overheating episo=
de, and is now hung up on some protuberance inside the housing, preventing =
it from recoiling?</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><div>
<div>--</div><div>Max Heim</div><div><a href=3D"mailto:mvheim@sonic.net"; ta=
rget=3D"_blank">mvheim@sonic.net</a></div><div><br></div><br class=3D"m_-11=
58636474461823897Apple-interchange-newline">
</div>
<br><div><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div>On Oct 7, 2018, at 3:49 PM, B H <=
;<a href=3D"mailto:mgbobh@gmail.com"; target=3D"_blank">mgbobh@gmail.com</a>=
> wrote:</div><br class=3D"m_-1158636474461823897Apple-interchange-newli=
ne"><div><div dir=3D"ltr" style=3D"font-family:Verdana;font-size:12px;font-=
style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:nor=
mal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal=
;word-spacing:0px"><div>=C2=A0 Yours has the non-electric temp sender and g=
auge?<span class=3D"m_-1158636474461823897Apple-converted-space">=C2=A0</sp=
an><br></div><div>=C2=A0 If it does, the gauge is moved by pressure of expa=
nding ether in the little capsule that is screwed into the engine. If it re=
ads 220 from the beginning, my guess is that the capsule got squeezed or th=
e tube damaged during the R&R.</div><div>=C2=A0 Test by removing capsul=
e from engine, and putting it into a pan of hot water. Check the temp with =
your hand-held thermometer.</div><div>Bob</div><div><br></div></div><br sty=
le=3D"font-family:Verdana;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-cap=
s:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-ind=
ent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px"><div class=
=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"font-family:Verdana;font-size:12px;font-style:nor=
mal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-=
align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spa=
cing:0px"><div dir=3D"ltr">On Sun, Oct 7, 2018 at 6:30 PM Max Heim via Mgs =
<<a href=3D"mailto:mgs@autox.team.net"; target=3D"_blank">mgs@autox.team.=
net</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"marg=
in:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;border-l=
eft-color:rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div style=3D"word-wrap:break-=
word">I just got the engine back together, but now the temperature gauge is=
malfunctioning.<div><br></div><div>It seems to have got stuck at about 220=
. That=E2=80=99s what it was reading before I even tried to start the car. =
After warming up to operating temp (estimated, of course), the gauge had cl=
imbed into the oil pressure zone, reading at 85 psi. At this point my cheap=
temp gun had the thermostat housing at around 180.</div><div><br></div><di=
v>Anyone seen this before? Any suggestions?</div><div><br></div><div><br></=
div><div><div><div style=3D"letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-ind=
ent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;word-wrap:b=
reak-word"><div style=3D"letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent=
:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;word-wrap:brea=
k-word"><div style=3D"margin:0px;font-size:13px">--</div><div style=3D"marg=
in:0px;font-size:13px;min-height:16px">Max Heim</div><div style=3D"margin:0=
px;font-size:13px">'66 MGB</div></div></div></div><br><div><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><div>On Sep 26, 2018, at 9:11 AM, Max Heim via Mgs <<a hre=
f=3D"mailto:mgs@autox.team.net"; target=3D"_blank">mgs@autox.team.net</a>>=
; wrote:</div><br class=3D"m_-1158636474461823897m_-7840722686676637303Appl=
e-interchange-newline"><div><div style=3D"word-wrap:break-word">Actually, w=
hen we finally got to my house, we swapped the luggage into my 1967 Barracu=
da convertible and headed up the freeway to catch up with the Melee. Reache=
d the first night=E2=80=99s stop in Red Bluff by 7pm.<div><br></div><div>No=
t the first participants to have to pull in a backup vehicle=E2=80=A6</div>=
<div><br></div><div>The plastic blade didn=E2=80=99t directly =E2=80=9Cpunc=
ture=E2=80=9D the radiator, actually. But it was trapped inside the shroud,=
and wound up smashing several tubes right where they enter the top and bot=
tom tanks (the blade being caught on the lip of the tank at each revolution=
, I think). I didn't even know that it had thrown a blade until I start=
ed disassembly =E2=80=94 I was assuming the 50+ year old radiator had just =
suddenly developed a stress crack after being transferred from one body to =
another.</div><div><br></div><div>With 5 or 6 tubes mangled top and bottom,=
it lost coolant instantly, and the radiator shop said it was irreparable o=
ther than by completely recoring it.</div><div><br><div><div style=3D"lette=
r-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white=
-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;word-wrap:break-word"><div style=3D"letter-s=
pacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-sp=
ace:normal;word-spacing:0px;word-wrap:break-word"><div style=3D"margin:0px;=
font-size:13px">--</div><div style=3D"margin:0px;font-size:13px;min-height:=
16px">Max Heim</div><div style=3D"margin:0px;font-size:13px">'66 MGB</d=
iv></div></div></div><br><div><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div>On Sep 26, 201=
8, at 3:56 AM, Dan DiBiase <<a href=3D"mailto:dan.dibiase@gmail.com"; tar=
get=3D"_blank">dan.dibiase@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</div><br class=3D"m_-11=
58636474461823897m_-7840722686676637303Apple-interchange-newline"><div><div=
dir=3D"ltr">A bummer that you couldn't participate in the melee, Max, =
I bet you were disappointed. Good recovery by Moss, though.=C2=A0<div><br><=
/div><div>Just tells you how fast these things spin, for a plastic blade to=
puncture a metal radiator!=C2=A0<div><br></div><div>Dan D</div><div>'7=
6B, '65B</div><div>Central NJ USA<br clear=3D"all"><div><div dir=3D"ltr=
" class=3D"m_-1158636474461823897m_-7840722686676637303gmail_signature" dat=
a-smartmail=3D"gmail_signature"><div dir=3D"ltr"><a href=3D"http://dandibia=
se.cbintouch.com/" target=3D"_blank">http://dandibiase.cbintouch.com/</a></=
div></div></div><br></div></div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div d=
ir=3D"ltr">On Tue, Sep 25, 2018 at 11:36 PM Max Heim via Mgs <<a href=3D=
"mailto:mgs@autox.team.net"; target=3D"_blank">mgs@autox.team.net</a>> wr=
ote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px=
0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;border-left-color:rgb(=
204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div style=3D"word-wrap:break-word"><div>I h=
aven=E2=80=99t said much on the list about my project. but I got my =E2=80=
=9Cnew=E2=80=9D 66 B roadster together in time for the start of the Califor=
nia Melee on Sept. 8. Unfortunately, a blade flew off the new Moss plastic =
fan within the first ten miles and punctured the radiator, so that was as f=
ar as it got =E2=80=94 from the San Francisco Presidio to Marin Civic Cente=
r.=C2=A0</div><div><br></div><div>I made the mistake of trying to get it to=
the next exit (it was a bad place to be on the shoulder, between the sound=
wall and 5 lanes of traffic doing 75+), which resulted in overheating and =
a blown head gasket. Total mileage to failure on this fan was 307 miles.</d=
iv><div><br></div><div>Subsequent examination of the stub revealed an air p=
ocket in the plastic right at the center of the base of the blade. Moss acc=
epted my photo of this as evidence of a manufacturing flaw. This model of f=
an was already out of production (and out of warranty) =E2=80=94 I had purc=
hased it as part of a large order back in 2015 when the car body was still =
in the paint shop.</div><div><br></div><div>But regardless, they decided to=
send me a new fan ("new model" nylon 7-blade fan) and a new alum=
inum radiator (the shop had told me mine was irreparable). I thought this w=
as pretty decent of them.</div><div><br></div><div>I just picked up my head=
at the machine shop where they had skimmed the surface and cleaned up the =
valves. In the meantime I had inspected the lifters based on a tip from Dav=
e at British Motorsports in Campbell and found a few of them were showing p=
itting. By replacing them now I can save the cam.</div><div><br></div><div>=
Now I just need to pick up the lifters and the gasket set and I should be a=
ble to have it back together this weekend.</div><div><br></div><div>A few t=
ips based on my experience:</div><div><br></div><div>1. Just shut it down. =
If I had stayed out on the freeway verge I would have saved the head gasket=
, and AAA would have picked me up in a timely manner. But since I had repor=
ted myself =E2=80=9Csafe=E2=80=9D and off the highway, it took 4 hours to g=
et a tow.=C2=A0</div><div><br></div><div>2. Check your lifters every so oft=
en. I had replaced the cam and lifters due to lifter spalling sometime betw=
een 1998 and 2010. The new lifters were just starting to pit in 2018.</div>=
<div><br></div>3. If you have a yellow plastic 7-bladed fan from Moss USA p=
urchased prior to mid-2015, you may want to consider retiring it. I suppose=
if it hasn=E2=80=99t broken so far, it probably doesn=E2=80=99t have air b=
ubbles in a critical location. But they had perhaps a dozen reported incide=
nts. The current product being sold as part #434-332 is a different pattern=
by a different maker in a different material, so should not be a cause for=
worry.<div><br></div><div>Buy British, Buy Best!</div><div><br><div><div s=
tyle=3D"letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transfo=
rm:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;word-wrap:break-word"><div styl=
e=3D"letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:=
none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;word-wrap:break-word"><div style=
=3D"margin:0px;font-size:13px">--</div><div style=3D"margin:0px;font-size:1=
3px;min-height:16px">Max Heim</div><div style=3D"margin:0px;font-size:13px"=
>'66 MGB</div></div></div></div></div></div>___________________________=
____________________<br><br><a href=3D"mailto:Mgs@autox.team.net"; target=3D=
"_blank">Mgs@autox.team.net</a><br>Donate:<span class=3D"m_-115863647446182=
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