Greetings Colin,
'I suspect that you overstate the case. I would agree that the
majority of vehicles badged as Tigers are "the real thing" but the
VAST majority?'
Yes, I really believe the number of bogus Tigers is very small. To
believe otherwise, paints a bleak and suspicious view of the Sunbeam
Tiger world which I don't have. Don't get me wrong, I'm sure there
are fake Tigers out there but not in the numbers some seem to think
there are.
'The simple fact is that there are a bunch of conversions masquerading as
"authentics" out there and that a bunch of very knowledgeable enthusiasts have
purchased the cars and lost considerable sums of money when the deception was
revealed.'
Does anyone have figures on the number of bogus Tigers? Is it 10, 20, 50
maybe 1000? No one has a count that can be verified that I've seen.
'When I told the seller that I would have to bow out due to the lack of a cert
he contacted STOA and the inspectors went well beyond the call of duty in
accommodating the owner's sudden need for a cert. The inspectors really went a
long way in accommodating him. Unfortunately, I wound up not buying the car
after all.'
You made the seller and TAC jump through hoops and you still didn't buy!
I guess the seller has to do what he must do to make a sale. Remind me
not to sell you anything!
Cheers,
Jeff
_____________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
Subject: Re: Missing Response
Author: CobMeister <CobMeister@aol.com> at INTERNET
Date: 1/7/98 1:37 PM
Hey Jeff, Hey Gang,
In a message dated 1/7/98 7:03:45 PM, Jeff wrote:
<< In the past year there have been at least three requests for
information on buying a Tiger. The request are for pointers on what to
look for so a person is reasonably certain that what they are
contemplating buying is the 'real' thing. Has anyone received a private
response?>>
Not me. But I understand the reasons why the examination criteria are not
revealed. The best way to judge "authenticity" in my opinion is by knowing
the vehicle's provenance. Failing that, judging the quality of the
workmanship.
<< On the subject of "opinions", the individuals who place TAC
stickers on cars they believe are authentic Tigers are giving nothing
more than their "opinion". >>
What the Cert actually says is "...met the requisite standards and criteria
necessary for the validation as an original Sunbeam Tiger...(confirmed by)...a
thorough visual examination of the specific elements, features, and
methodology used by the manufacturer to create the "Tiger"."
The Cert then goes on to point out that "This examination has been carried out
by a minimum of three members of (STOA) who have received special training to
qualify them for the task. They have passed a rigid written examination..."
The cert, incidentally, also notes, "In cases where ID tags have been removed
and reattached... It is not possible to certify that these items are the
originals, but simply that the basic unibody is a Tiger..." And then there is
a Y or N checkoff to note if the original rivets are still in the ID (VIN)
tags.
So, yeah, I guess it is based on opinion, but it is the opinion of at least
three enthusiasts who have been given training in whatever the so-called
"maker's marks" are. Based on a corollary to the "infinite number of monkeys
given an infinite amount of time" theory, I suspect that you or I or any
reasonably competent enthusiast could wade through Rootes documentation for long
enough to figure out what those "marks" actually are. But, hey! I got a life
to lead... I think I would have to be a dummy to try to duplicate the STOA
closely held knowledge to support a single purchase of a Tiger.
<<The vast majority of Tigers without TAC stickers are the real thing no
matter what some may believe.>>
I suspect that you overstate the case. I would agree that the majority of
vehicles badged as Tigers are "the real thing" but the VAST majority? The
simple fact is that there are a bunch of conversions masquerading as
"authentics" out there and that a bunch of very knowledgeable enthusiasts have
purchased the cars and lost considerable sums of money when the deception was
revealed. Yes, there are more authentic Tigers without TAC stickers than there
are authentic Tigers with TAC certs. But, more importantly, there are a whole
lot of deceptive conversions without TAC certs and none (please, Jesus!) with
TAC certs.
I suspect that this whole issue is driven by the fact that Alpines are
undervalued. I will never understand why a decent Alpine is cheaper than an
equivalent MGB. But, since the Alpines are relatively cheap and the Tigers
are relatively expensive, it remains economically viable to convert with the
intent to defraud. Ain't it a shame?
To be frank, I think it would be great if there were a national Tiger club!
And one of the reasons I think it would be great is that the TAC cert program
could then be expanded to a nationwide base.
I should also point out that one of the cars I was interested in out in
California (actually, the one I expected to buy) was not TAC certified. When
I told the seller that I would have to bow out due to the lack of a cert he
contacted STOA and the inspectors went well beyond the call of duty in
accommodating the owner's sudden need for a cert. The inspectors really went
a long way in accommodating him. Unfortunately, I wound up not buying the car
after all. Was it an authentic Tiger? Yup. Was it a good Tiger? Nope.
Pax!
And Cheers!
--Colin Cobb, Growlin' & Prowlin' Outside Las Cruces, NM, USA
'65 Tiger & '66 Morgan
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