Chris, I guess we did not impress Paul R. I am an engineer, and I
print.
When I worked for American Bridge Div of US Steel, we had a training
period for 3 months, where we were Union draftsman at the fabricating
plant.
Believe me the Shop Steward, could read my printing, because I was just
like any other Union draftsman, and they did not put up with anything
sloppy, or you did it again, and again, and well you get the message.
Tom Hall sent me a message off list, and I assume he will to you as
well. If not, let me know.
Your message kinds of Pi**'s me off, as I enjoyed the session, but could
not figure out what was going on the "couldn't read my hand writing.
The test is comprehensive, but a Tiger owner who was listening could
pass the test.
BTW, I remember you and your son. Though it was great that a Dad and
his Son could do this together. Hope it did not sour you Son on Tigers
or the people.
Larry
Chris Williams wrote:
>
> I also took the TAC test along with my young son Jeremy in maryland a while
>back.
> I was also told that my handwriting was a problem ,but i did not hear a yes
>or no
> from any one. And my son Jeremy who helped me drive the tiger back from the
>west
> coast and has a interest in the cars was never notified either . I think that
> when people are interested in tigers and they reach out and then get no
>response.
> That it is a loss to all of us.
>
> chris m williams
>
> Larry Paulick wrote:
>
> > Jan, I have found you to be a very helpful and honest person, in the
> > several years that I have dealt with you.
> >
> > On just several issues, you provided information on chrome companies,
> > and historic insurance companies, that I found to be right on the mark,
> > and in both cases the only substantive information on either subject.
> >
> > I have benefited from help from Steve L, Tom Hall, John Logan, Bob
> > Palmer, Theo Smit, and many, many others on the lists, who have made my
> > total restoration easier, and the car better.
> >
> > I have been playing around with Tigers since 1969, and this is the
> > second Tiger.
> >
> > Unfortunately, I must agree with you that there are some owners who are
> > political, bickering and picky, and do not want people to get together
> > and share info.
> >
> > Tell me why the Clubs could not share Tech articles and info? The only
> > response is that they want to retain a unique benefit for their members.
> >
> > Their real unique benefit is the ability for members to meet face to
> > face and enjoy the cars together. This can only be done on a local club
>level.
> >
> > The internet has circumvented much of the problems of the Clubs getting
> > together, and will probable do even more, if the Club Leaders don't do
> > anything beyond what they have done so far.
> >
> > The idea of the United Web site and goal statement is what I support.
> >
> > In stead of just complaining, I took the TAC course over a year ago,
> > when it was offered on the East Coast, finished the test, and am sure
> > that I passed with flying colors, but was told that they could not read
> > my handwriting.
> >
> > Well, I said, OK, I will take it again, and it has been over a year, and
> > no response from several emails to the TAC group.
> >
> > The idea of people knowing what is a real Tiger is good, and if it was
> > more universally know, than is fine. I did my part to help expand the
> > program, and still have not heard from the TAC people, some of which I
> > think are in the group Jan has mentioned.
> >
> > There is no obligation to respond or help, other that the good manners
> > of any group, some of which as Jan has mentioned do so only at their own
> > convenience and benefit.
> >
> > This issue can go on forever, or the elected Leaders of each of the
> > Clubs can start to get it all together, and help each other.
> >
> > Leaders know how to get beyond the old problems/people of the past. If
> > they don't, time will pass them and the traditional Clubs by.
> >
> > Larry
> >
> > Jan Sven-Erik Harde wrote:
> > >
> > > Dear Dick,
> > >
> > > I am REALLY surprised at your remarks in this note, as you know I have
> > > provided many valuable parts for many years to the Tiger community, and I
>am
> > > quite honest and candid about my items that I sell, and no one has their
>arm
> > > twisted or forced to pay or bid on EBAY...
> > > I have NEVER been contacted regarding the rivets by anyone at TAC...
> > > I originally submitted them to several of the " IN THE KNOW" persons, who
> > > told me what their purpose they served on the Tiger, and they GLADLY
> > > accepted FREE samples for their own use.
> > >
> > > I am a FAIR and reasonable person, I do NOT appreciate being BASHED
> > > regarding this issue, if you have a problem regarding this, why did you
>not
> > > call me ??? Or write ??
> > >
> > > I was certainly contacted when I was going to publish the TIGER
> > > authentication manual, with over 100 color detailed pictures, with all the
> > > SPECIAL differences, such as the cut brackets, dimples, holes and such,
> > > detailing pictures from stripped Alpine/Tiger/Alger chassis, to HELP guys
> > > out there...
> > > The calls came in FAST & FURIOUS, begging me NOT to do so, and I did NOT,
> > > out of respect !!
> > > Maybe now it is a valuable item to release !!
> > >
> > > Dick, I guess I was good enough to provide the parts YOU needed, to
>complete
> > > your Le Mans Coupe, whilst you and Dan Walters were working on it prior to
> > > Eureka.
> > > And if you remember, I not only gave them to you for "FREE", but I also
>sent
> > > them via FedEx, over night, at MY expense.....!!!!!! ????
> > > How quickly we forget !!!!!!!
> > >
> > > So I am sure this will ruffle feathers all over, and that is the "MAIN AND
> > > ONLY" reason that I sold my cars, is that out of ALL the car clubs and car
> > > communities that I have been apart of I have "NEVER" met any group as
> > > political and bickering and picky, as the Tiger crowd...
> > >
> > > There are some really GREAT individuals out there, that are as SICK of
>this
> > > as I am, and we have a GREAT relationship still....
> > >
> > > Warmest Regards & a HAPPY NEW YEAR to all...
> > >
> > > Jan Harde.
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Dick Barker" <dickbarker@earthlink.net>
> > > To: "S.SAGAN" <nch20buf@nccn.net>
> > > Cc: <tigers@autox.team.net>
> > > Sent: Sunday, January 07, 2001 1:43 PM
> > > Subject: Re: T.R.A.C.
> > >
> > > > At 12:00 AM 12/25/2000 -0800, you wrote:
> > > > >Hello Dick,
> > > > >
> > > > > Well...I thought I was making a simple inquiry into the use of a
> > > > > seemingly legitimate service for
> > > > >Tiger owners. Boy, I seemed to have opened a can of worms here. It
> > > > >would seem that my curiosity
> > > > >concerning the purpose of this service may have been satisfied by the
> > > > >responses (or lack thereof) I
> > > > >have received from persons involved with it either selling it, buying
> > > it,
> > > > >or participating on it's
> > > > >committee. Sorry for any hassles brought about by my curiosity.
> > > > >
> > > > >As far as being able to trace I.d. info out of Ebay.. or anywhere else
>on
> > > > >the net, It's in the genes.
> > > > >
> > > > >S. Sagan
> > > > >530.268.3861
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Steve,
> > > >
> > > > Thank you for your email regarding T.R.A.C. Sorry to take so long
>getting
> > > > back to you. Your message raises some very legitimate points which I
>feel
> > > > should be answered not only for you, but also for the Tiger community in
> > > > general. You'll notice I am therefore including the Tiger "list" on
>this
> > > > reply.
> > > >
> > > > You have not opened a can of worms. On the contrary, as one of the few
> > > > people so far to question the purpose of the T.R.A.C. program, your
> > > > curiosity is like a faint ray of hope. Frankly, it would be gratifying
>if
> > > > others applied your analogy and curiosity. Even though you may not
> > > realize
> > > > it, you have identified one of the program objectives, to wit:
>Challenge
> > > > the legitimacy and authenticity of eBay auctions offering 'Sunbeam
>Tiger -
> > > > Rootes "Rivets" Original' at exorbitant prices.
> > > >
> > > > As you may know, those expense rivets frequently auctioned on eBay were
> > > > never originally installed anywhere on a Sunbeam Tiger. And the
> > > suggestion
> > > > that some copper service replacements in a Rootes bag could be the final
> > > > necessary part of a proper Tiger restoration is ludicrous. Originally
>the
> > > > auction description implied that these rivets were the same as the
>unique
> > > > OEM fasteners used by Rootes to attach the chassis (VIN) plate to
>Sunbeam
> > > > Tigers. But after a challenge to the accuracy of that claim, the
> > > > description was modified to the present wording, "....correct rivets
>that
> > > > you are looking for" ".....to complete that special correct
> > > > restoration." Further appeals to the seller to properly identify the
> > > > rivets have been unsuccessful, so unwary buyers continue to bid AS MUCH
>AS
> > > > $20 PER RIVET for these inappropriate fasteners. And it is all done in
> > > > complete secrecy, because these are always private auctions "so as to
>keep
> > > > things 'private'." What could be the purpose of a private auction,
> > > unless
> > > > it is to conceal something that the buyer and/or seller do not want
> > > > known? These auctions have also fostered a misconception about the
> > > > replaceability of unique factory rivets so that now some Sunbeam owners
> > > > think they are acquiring authentic and valuable products, when they are
> > > not.
> > > >
> > > > The Tiger Rivet Authentication Committee was formed for the purpose
>stated
> > > > above, and to offer a legitimate advisory and counseling service to
>Tiger
> > > > owners actually desiring correct, authoritative information about Rootes
> > > > fasteners. (There is more information available on this subject that
>you
> > > > may ever want to know.) An "imitator" auction (also private) offering
>the
> > > > T.R.A.C. service usually appears on eBay immediately following the one
>for
> > > > the bogus rivets, and although the whole thing appears to be a spoof, in
> > > > fact, it is not. The information advertised in the T.R.A.C. auction
> > > > description is readily available to ANYONE seeking information about
> > > Rootes
> > > > rivets, and at little or no cost. For those who might otherwise pay a
> > > > princely sum for a package of generic fasteners, this could indeed be a
> > > > worthwhile and valuable service. Those like myself who staunchly hold
> > > this
> > > > view help support awareness of the T.R.A.C. program by submitting timely
> > > > bids during the eBay auctions.
> > > >
> > > > Regrettably, few bidders have taken advantage of T.R.A.C. Commendably,
> > > > some, like yourself, have finally questioned its purpose, but still may
> > > not
> > > > understand it completely. Perhaps this background and explanation will
> > > > help to clarify your understanding. And if it prevents one unsuspecting
> > > > Tiger owner from spending a king's ransom for a package of worthless
> > > > rivets, it will have served it purpose.
> > > >
> > > > Dick Barker
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