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[Fot] Car spin

Subject: [Fot] Car spin
From: tr4racing at googlemail.com (Christian Marx)
Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2017 08:31:55 +0200
References: <594bb588.d3a81c0a.3cad9.65b5@mx.google.com> <15cd227c240-3ad5-b9f7@webprd-a90.mail.aol.com> <0178CFA0-3438-4A78-BBB7-E61F8A44D774@ponostyle.com>
Please excuse my sarcasm, but don't forget to dowel pin your car wheels, as the 
forces are a lot higher than on the flywheel.

Cheers
Chris 

Gesendet von meinem Windows 10 Phone

Von: Bill via Fot
Gesendet: Freitag, 23. Juni 2017 08:05
An: Mordy Dunst
Cc: fot at autox.team.net
Betreff: Re: [Fot] Car spin

And regarding flywheel bolts?usually the dowels are a pretty tight fit?tighter 
than the shoulders of the bolts. They are also square and better for resisting 
rotational force. I think flywheels slip and slide?not much of course, but 
there?s a lot of force applied there. I?m equally comfortable with more hard 
bolts than stock. Six is good, eight is better. But a couple of dowels is nice 
too. I don?t think they simply locate. 

> On Jun 22, 2017, at 4:34 PM, Mordy Dunst via Fot <fot at autox.team.net> 
> wrote:
> 
> Here is a thought question:  could you reduce rate of a car spinning about 
> its center of mass by reving  the flywheel faster in neutral?
> 
> 
> MDunst Headgasket.com 626.358.1616 
> Fax 626.628.3777 
> Triple R Munitions, Inc 626.201.9471 
> T FFL 6,7 SOT 2
> 
> On Thursday, June 22, 2017, Christian Marx via Fot <fot at autox.team.net> 
> wrote:
> 
> My thought is that a dowel pin has no other function than matching the parts 
> together. The pin is not a press fit in most cases.
> 
> This means, if the dowel pin get rotational forces, then all is too late and 
> the car has to be parked.
> 
> 
> 
> The rotational force get transferred by the clamping force and the resulting 
> friction between fly wheel an crank only.
> 
> 
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Chris
> 
> 
> 
> Gesendet von meinem Windows 10 Phone
> 
> 
> 
> Von: Steve Yott via Fot
> Gesendet: Donnerstag, 22. Juni 2017 12:55
> An: 'Scott Janzen'; 'Barr, Scott'
> Cc: 'FOT'
> Betreff: Re: [Fot] TR4 ARP Flywheel Bolts Question
> 
> 
> 
> Properly made and installed that would be an good solution.  Issue is that if 
> they are not sized properly and they should have a t-shape and be counter 
> sunk they can cause even worse failure.
> 
> 
> 
> The right bolt used with the proper washer has a very large surface area and 
> the bolt itself is shouldered resulting in a pretty strong install.
> 
> 
> 
> The next best thing to do IMHO is to install a second dowel pin.  The real 
> purpose of the bolt is to hold the flywheel onto the crank but the main 
> strength is the counter sunk flywheel over the face of the crankshaft and the 
> dowels holding the rotation forces.  This way if the bolts should break you 
> have two dowels which will prevent the flywheel from flying in an egg shape 
> and destroying everything in its path.
> 
> 
> 
> Now the absolute best thing is to not use an aluminum flywheel!  There is a 
> reason they are not allowed in Europe?..  Buy a steel flywheel and  use 6 to 
> 8 bolts then most of the issues are gone.  
> 
> 
> 
> IMHO
> 
> 
> 
> Steve Yott
> 
> 
> 
> 
> From: Scott Janzen [mailto:sjanzen at me.com] 
> Sent: Monday, June 05, 2017 3:28 PM
> To: Barr, Scott <sbarr at McCarty-Law.com>
> Cc: timmmurphh at gmail.com; Steve Yott <tr4 at wi.rr.com>; STEPHEN BOROWSKI 
> <biznzman at pacbell.net>; FOT <fot at autox.team.net>
> Subject: Re: [Fot] TR4 ARP Flywheel Bolts Question
> 
> 
> Don't you guys use steel inserts in those flywheel holes?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> 
> On Jun 5, 2017, at 7:55 AM, Barr, Scott via Fot <fot at autox.team.net> wrote:
> 
> This is what it looks like if you forget to chamfer the flywheel holes to 
> clear the radius under the head.
> 
> 
> 
> <image001.jpg>
> 
> 
> 
> From: Fot [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of timmmurphh--- 
> via Fot
> Sent: Sunday, June 04, 2017 5:53 PM
> To: 'Steve Yott' <tr4 at wi.rr.com>; 'STEPHEN BOROWSKI' <biznzman at 
> pacbell.net>; fot at autox.team.net
> Subject: Re: [Fot] TR4 ARP Flywheel Bolts Question
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for the clarification Steve, that makes sense.
> 
> 
> 
> Tim
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> From: Steve Yott [mailto:tr4 at wi.rr.com] 
> Sent: Sunday, June 4, 2017 4:56 PM
> To: timmmurphh at gmail.com; 'STEPHEN BOROWSKI' <biznzman at pacbell.net>
> Subject: RE: [Fot] TR4 ARP Flywheel Bolts Question
> 
> 
> 
> The reason they state to not use washers is they are afraid that the washers 
> used will (1) not be hard enough and will compress under the bolt head and 
> (2) all ARP bolts have very liberal radii between the head and shank.  If 
> there is a tight fitting washer this would be strain on this radius and could 
> break the head.
> 
> 
> 
> The 7/16? ARP bolts used on Chevy flywheels is what I fit to TR?6, late 
> Spitfires and modified TR4 cranks.  These bolts come with the special washers 
> to use with them.  I have used a proper washer under the 3/8? ARP bolts many 
> times with no problems using a correct washer.  You can also use an ARP crown 
> wheel bolt for the same purpose and these come with proper washers.
> 
> 
> 
> Steve Yott 
> 
> 
> 
> From: Fot [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of timmmurphh--- 
> via Fot
> Sent: Sunday, June 04, 2017 1:59 PM
> To: 'STEPHEN BOROWSKI' <biznzman at pacbell.net>; fot at autox.team.net
> Subject: Re: [Fot] TR4 ARP Flywheel Bolts Question
> 
> 
> 
> FWIW
> 
> 
> 
> I just got a set of ARP 206-2802 flywheel bolts from Pegasus for the TR4.  
> They are for ?BMC A series?.  The instruction specifically says, ?DO NOT USE 
> ANY WAHERS?, yes, all in caps for emphasis!  They further state that ARP will 
> not be responsible for failures is washers are used.  The instructions also 
> say, ?Make sure there is an adequate chamfer under the bolt holes on the 
> flywheel to clear the radius under the head of the bolt.?  Torque is 55 Ft-Lb 
> with specified lubricants on the threads.
> 
> 
> 
> I?ve never had that much good luck grinding the ends of bolts and still 
> having it square so as not to start it cocked and runing the female threads.  
> Maybe it?s just me?
> 
> 
> 
> Tim
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> From: Fot [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of STEPHEN 
> BOROWSKI via Fot
> Sent: Friday, June 2, 2017 3:28 PM
> To: FOT List <fot at autox.team.net>
> Subject: [Fot] TR4 ARP Flywheel Bolts Question
> 
> 
> 
> Does anyone have experience using the ARP flywheel bolts sold by Moss and 
> others?
> 
> I understand that you may have to shorten the bolt or it breaks the rear 
> seal???
> 
> Are they supposed to have a washer or not?
> 
> 
> 
> Thxs. Steve
> 
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