--===============8978673742922159446==
--0000000000002538d605a0c4f65d
Bronze guides...
https://www.netbug.net/blogmichael/2007/05/15/bronze-giudes-in-cast-iron-cylinder-heads/
On Sat, Mar 14, 2020, 12:17 PM Steven Kingsbury via Healeys, <
healeys@autox.team.net> wrote:
> This is the first I have ever heard about the bronze valve guides being
> crushed. I had always heard they were the better ones and they are by far
> the more expensive. Not that money and/or expensive makes something better.
> I have heard though, that they are better, so this is a surprise.
> And yes, I will be checking everything over with a fine tooth comb all
> this weekend. With the amount of carbon I found on the valves I am for sure
> going to be checking the piston rings even though the cylinder walls are
> quite pristine. The reason? Finding less than stellar workmanship in the
> previous work done of this engine, I just don't trust that the rings were
> done correctly to begin with and since I'm here, I'm going to check. Peace
> of mind will be well worth it.
> Steven
>
> On March 13, 2020 at 11:47 AM, WILLIAM B LAWRENCE <ynotink@msn.com> wrote:
>
> Another consideration is whether you have bronze valve guides in an iron
> head. These can cause problems due to the different thermal expansion rates
> of the materials. The iron can crush the bronze and cause the valve to
> stick.
>
> Bill Lawrence
> BN1 #554
> ------------------------------
> *From:* Healeys <healeys-bounces@autox.team.net> on behalf of Kees
> Oudesluijs <coudesluijs@chello.nl>
> *Sent:* Friday, March 13, 2020 8:19:28 AM
> *To:* healeys@autox.team.net <healeys@autox.team.net>
> *Subject:* Re: [Healeys] Four cylinder woes, part two!
>
>
> Measure the bores in several places first. If no significant wear is
> apparent leave the pistons and rings well alone. Also look for ridges near
> the top of the bores. If they are not present, wear is not very likely. If
> the bores are fine, piston ring wear is not likely. Valves do rock a bit in
> the guides. They need to, they expand in the guides when the engine is
> running. You may or may not use cap seals on the valve guides.
>
> If there is wear in the cylinders however have the block rebored and fit
> new pistons and rings
>
> Burning some oil is nothing to worry about on the old engines. When new
> 1ltr per 1000km (about 1 qrt per 500mls) was quite permissible (after
> running in during which oil consumption could be much higher). Check the
> crank case ventilation system, when dirty/blocked it can be a cause of
> considerable oil consumption. Anyway you probably loose most oil leaking.
> Overfilling the sump is another cause of oil consumption as excessive oil
> will be expelled through the crank case ventilation system
>
> The head should be dead straight but the surface does not need to be super
> smooth. In most causes you can see feel the milling marks.
>
> Replacing the bearing shells and seals is good practice if the bottom end
> comes apart. Does not cost an arm and a leg and if in time you will save on
> grinding the crankshaft. Measure the crank pins in various places and check
> if these are within limits.
>
> Kees Oudesluijs
>
>
> Op 13-3-2020 om 00:29 schreef Steven Kingsbury via Healeys:
>
> Latest update, took the head to a friend's machine shop and took the
> valves out. All the intake vales had build up of soft carbon, a sign of
> burning oil I was told and I'm going to have to also pull the pistons to
> redo the rings. Fun, but I'm here, so why not? I'm also going to get new
> valve guides pressed in and replace the ones in the head as the valves seem
> to rock a bit going up and down. The head though is not warped and is
> straight, but I will get it checked out for cracks and resurface the head
> to make it super smooth.
> I'm also going to drop the pan, and push the pistons out of the block
> and replace the rings. And yes, I will plastiguage the crank to make sure
> it's in good shape and install new rod bearings when in there.
> I am also going to remove the tappet cover and take a good, hard, close
> up look at all the lifters to make sure that's not a problem. Right now, in
> for a penny, in for a pound. Sterling that is.
> Basically, I'm making sure everything is correct this time and then I
> will have no one but me to blame if it doesn't work. But all in all, it
> seems pretty simple. So stay tuned for further updates as they happen.
> Thanks for all the input, suggestions and guesses. This is actually
> quite the fun project.
> Steven Kingsbury
>
>
> On March 12, 2020 at 12:38 PM, John Harper <ah100register@gmail.com>
> <ah100register@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Hank
>
> The fact that number 2 exhaust valve is not the same colour as the others
> might be a clue. Maybe it is not closing fully? It would be worth checking
> for a stuck valve guide, broken spring or just lost clearance. A partially
> seized rocker is possible but not likely. This may not be the problem but
> it would not take much effort to pull the valve out and check for any
> burning on the working face.
>
> Best regards
>
> On Thu, 12 Mar 2020 at 18:18, <gradea1@charter.net> wrote:
>
> Hi Steven-good to hear from you!
>
> That's a nice test, but I would magnaflux the head for cracks between 2-3
> and have it shaved flat..could be a head gasket leak due to warped
> head...especially if valves and rings checked good.
>
> Also, I don't recommend NGK plugs- use Champion N-5...maybe cause of
> carbon on valves. Unless cam is flat, valve spring broken or tappet rods
> bent/broken, problem is in head-block fit.
>
> Regards, Hank Leach
>
>
> -----------------------------------------
> From: "Steven Kingsbury via Healeys"
> To: healeys@autox.teamnet
> Cc:
> Sent: Thursday March 12 2020 9:40:25AM
> Subject: [Healeys] Four cylinder woes, part two!
>
> Okay, here's the latest! I finally got to pull my head If you remember, I
> had 155 lbs of pressure in cylinders 1, 3, and 4 and only 25 lbs in
> cylinder number two. So with the head off, I was prepared to find a problem
> with I flipped it over to expose the valves, no such luck. Other than
> number two exhaust valve being a bit black, no cracks, nothing stuck and it
> looked fine. So then I went to look into the cylinders themselves, walls
> smooth, flat high compression pistons smooth, number three a bit rough on
> the top, but other than that and good.
> So then I went back to the head, put the spark plugs back in and filled
> the combustion chambers with paint thinner to see where it would leak out.
> Filled each chamber evenly and waited. Twelve hours later, and other than
> evaporation, no leaks! All chambers still even in their fluid retention.
> So then I rotated the crank to get all the pistons to an almost even
> position and put paint thinner in the cylinders at the same depth. No quick
> leak, not one cylinder faster than the others and all the fluid finally
> drained out smoothly and evenly in each cylinder.
> I'm a bit stumped. My next step is taking the head to a guy in town, an
> old machinist who builds his own engines and runs his car at Bonneville in
> the 300 mph range. He knows what he's doing and I'm sure he will give me
> some sage advice and help. Also as a side note, I went over the head with a
> magnifying glass and can see now cracks, but that doesn't mean they are not
> there I know. I was just thinking with a 100 pound plus difference,
> something would be obvious.
> I am also going to be taking off the tappet cover on the side, inspect
> all the lifters and see what I can find there. Like I said, I'm a bit
> perplexed, but I'm not done. I will find something wrong! Here are some
> photos for you, maybe you can see something I can't.
>
> [image: IMG_20200311_143602.jpg]
> Here's the head, upside down and you can see the exhaust valve on number
> two is blacker than the others, but no cracks, chips, or visible damage.
> [image: IMG_20200311_172123.jpg]
> And here's the fluid I placed in the combustion chambers. It didn't drain
> out and just sat there.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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>
>
> --
> Best wishes
>
> John Harper
>
> AHC UK 100 Register Secretary
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation $12.75
>
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/healeys http://autox.team.net/archive
> Healeys@autox.team.nethttp://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/healeys
>
> Unsubscribe/Manage:
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>
> _______________________________________________
> Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation $12.75
>
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/healeys
> http://autox.team.net/archive
>
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> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/healeys
>
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> Suggested annual donation $12.75
>
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/healeys
> http://autox.team.net/archive
>
> Healeys@autox.team.net
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>
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>
>
--0000000000002538d605a0c4f65d
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<div dir=3D"auto">Bronze guides...<div dir=3D"auto"><a href=3D"https://www.=
netbug.net/blogmichael/2007/05/15/bronze-giudes-in-cast-iron-cylinder-heads=
/">https://www.netbug.net/blogmichael/2007/05/15/bronze-giudes-in-cast-iron=
-cylinder-heads/</a><br></div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=
=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Sat, Mar 14, 2020, 12:17 PM Steven Kingsbu=
ry via Healeys, <<a href=3D"mailto:healeys@autox.team.net";>healeys@autox=
.team.net</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=
=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div><di=
v>This is the first I have ever heard about the bronze valve guides being c=
rushed. I had always heard they were the better ones and they are by far th=
e more expensive. Not that money and/or expensive makes something better. I=
have heard though, that they are better, so this is a surprise.=C2=A0</div=
><div>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0And yes, I will be checking everything over with a =
fine tooth comb all this weekend. With the amount of carbon I found on the =
valves I am for sure going to be checking the piston rings even though the =
cylinder walls are quite pristine. The reason? Finding less than stellar wo=
rkmanship in the previous work done of this engine, I just don't trust =
that the rings were done correctly to begin with and since I'm here, I&=
#39;m going to check.=C2=A0 Peace of mind will be well worth it.</div><div>=
Steven</div><div><br>On March 13, 2020 at 11:47 AM, WILLIAM B LAWRENCE <=
<a href=3D"mailto:ynotink@msn.com"; target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noreferrer">yno=
tink@msn.com</a>> wrote:<br><br></div><div><blockquote type=3D"cite"><di=
v>Another consideration is whether you have bronze valve guides in an iron =
head. These can cause problems due to the different thermal expansion rates=
of the materials. The iron can crush the bronze and cause the valve to sti=
ck.<br> <br> Bill Lawrence<br> BN1 #554<br><hr style=3D"display:inline-bloc=
k;width:98%"><div id=3D"m_982458915621157960divRplyFwdMsg" dir=3D"ltr"><spa=
n face=3D"Calibri, sans-serif" style=3D"font-size:11pt;color:#000000;font-f=
amily:Calibri,sans-serif" color=3D"#000000"><b>From:</b> Healeys <<a hre=
f=3D"mailto:healeys-bounces@autox.team.net"; target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"norefe=
rrer">healeys-bounces@autox.team.net</a>> on behalf of Kees Oudesluijs &=
lt;<a href=3D"mailto:coudesluijs@chello.nl"; target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"norefe=
rrer">coudesluijs@chello.nl</a>><br> <b>Sent:</b> Friday, March 13, 2020=
8:19:28 AM<br> <b>To:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:healeys@autox.team.net"; target=
=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noreferrer">healeys@autox.team.net</a> <<a href=3D"ma=
ilto:healeys@autox.team.net" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noreferrer">healeys@a=
utox.team.net</a>><br> <b>Subject:</b> Re: [Healeys] Four cylinder woes,=
part two!</span><div>=C2=A0</div></div><div><p>Measure the bores in severa=
l places first. If no significant wear is apparent leave the pistons and ri=
ngs well alone. Also look for ridges near the top of the bores. If they are=
not present, wear is not very likely. If the bores are fine, piston ring w=
ear is not likely. Valves do rock a bit in the guides. They need to, they e=
xpand in the guides when the engine is running. You may or may not use cap =
seals on the valve guides. <br></p><p>If there is wear in the cylinders how=
ever have the block rebored and fit new pistons and rings<br></p><p>Burning=
some oil is nothing to worry about on the old engines. When new 1ltr per 1=
000km (about 1 qrt per 500mls) was quite permissible (after running in duri=
ng which oil consumption could be much higher). Check the crank case ventil=
ation system, when dirty/blocked it can be a cause of considerable oil cons=
umption. Anyway you probably loose most oil leaking. Overfilling the sump i=
s another cause of oil consumption as excessive oil will be expelled throug=
h the crank case ventilation system<br></p><p>The head should be dead strai=
ght but the surface does not need to be super smooth. In most causes you ca=
n see feel the milling marks.</p><p>Replacing the bearing shells and seals =
is good practice if the bottom end comes apart. Does not cost an arm and a =
leg and if in time you will save on grinding the crankshaft. Measure the cr=
ank pins in various places and check if these are within limits.<br></p><p>=
Kees Oudesluijs</p><p><br></p><div>Op 13-3-2020 om 00:29 schreef Steven Kin=
gsbury via Healeys:<br></div><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div>Latest update, =
took the head to a friend's machine shop and took the valves out. All t=
he intake vales had build up of soft carbon, a sign of burning oil I was to=
ld and I'm going to have to also pull the pistons to redo the rings. Fu=
n, but I'm here, so why not? I'm also going to get new valve guides=
pressed in and replace the ones in the head as the valves seem to rock a b=
it going up and down. The head though is not warped and is straight, but I =
will get it checked out for cracks and resurface the head to make it super =
smooth.</div><div>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0I'm also going to drop the pan, and=
push the pistons out of the block and replace the rings. And yes, I will p=
lastiguage the crank to make sure it's in good shape and install new ro=
d bearings when in there.=C2=A0</div><div>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0I am also going=
to remove the tappet cover and take a good, hard, close up look at all the=
lifters to make sure that's not a problem. Right now, in for a penny, =
in for a pound. Sterling that is.</div><div>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0Basically, I&=
#39;m making sure everything is correct this time and then I will have no o=
ne but me to blame if it doesn't work. But all in all, it seems pretty =
simple. So stay tuned for further updates as they happen.</div><div>=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0Thanks for all the input, suggestions and guesses. This is actu=
ally quite the fun project.</div><div>Steven Kingsbury</div><div>=C2=A0 =C2=
=A0=C2=A0</div><div><br> On March 12, 2020 at 12:38 PM, John Harper <a href=
=3D"mailto:ah100register@gmail.com"; target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noreferrer"> &=
lt;ah100register@gmail.com></a> wrote:<br> <br></div><div><blockquote ty=
pe=3D"cite"><div><div dir=3D"ltr">Hank<div><br></div><div>The fact that num=
ber 2 exhaust valve=C2=A0is not the same colour as the others might be a cl=
ue. Maybe it is not closing fully? It would be worth checking for a stuck v=
alve guide, broken spring or just lost=C2=A0 clearance. A partially seized =
rocker is possible but not likely. This may not be the problem but it would=
not take much effort to pull the valve out and check for any burning on th=
e working face.</div><div><br></div><div>Best regards</div></div><br><div><=
div dir=3D"ltr">On Thu, 12 Mar 2020 at 18:18, <<a href=3D"mailto:gradea1=
@charter.net" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noreferrer">gradea1@charter.net</a>&=
gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-le=
ft:1px solid #cccccc;padding-left:1ex"><div>Hi Steven-good to hear from you=
!<p>That's a nice test, but I would magnaflux the head for cracks betwe=
en 2-3 and have it shaved flat..could be a head gasket leak due to warped h=
ead...especially if valves and rings checked good.</p><p>Also, I don't =
recommend=C2=A0 NGK plugs- use Champion N-5...maybe cause of carbon on valv=
es. Unless cam is flat, valve spring broken or tappet rods bent/broken, pro=
blem is in head-block fit.</p><p>Regards, Hank Leach<br> <br></p><div><br><=
/div><p>-----------------------------------------</p>From: "Steven Kin=
gsbury via Healeys" <br> To: <a href=3D"mailto:healeys@autox.teamnet"; =
target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noreferrer">healeys@autox.teamnet</a><br> Cc: <br>=
Sent: Thursday March 12 2020 9:40:25AM<br> Subject: [Healeys] Four cylinde=
r woes, part two!<br> <br><div><div style=3D"color:#000000;font-family:SFNS=
Text,'Helvetica Neue',Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:15px;font-styl=
e:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight=
:300;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:=
none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration-style:initial;text=
-decoration-color:initial">Okay, here's the latest! I finally got to pu=
ll my head If you remember, I had 155 lbs of pressure in cylinders 1, 3, an=
d 4 and only 25 lbs in cylinder number two. So with the head off, I was pre=
pared to find a problem with I flipped it over to expose the valves, no suc=
h luck. Other than number two exhaust valve being a bit black, no cracks, n=
othing stuck and it looked fine. So then I went to look into the cylinders =
themselves, walls smooth, flat high compression pistons smooth, number thre=
e a bit rough on the top, but other than that and good.</div><div style=3D"=
color:#000000;font-family:SFNSText,'Helvetica Neue',Helvetica,sans-=
serif;font-size:15px;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-v=
ariant-caps:normal;font-weight:300;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;t=
ext-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text=
-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=
So then I went back to the head, put the spark plugs back in and filled the=
combustion chambers with paint thinner to see where it would leak out. Fil=
led each chamber evenly and waited. Twelve hours later, and other than evap=
oration, no leaks! All chambers still even in their fluid retention.=C2=A0<=
/div><div style=3D"color:#000000;font-family:SFNSText,'Helvetica Neue&#=
39;,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:15px;font-style:normal;font-variant-liga=
tures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:300;letter-spacing:normal=
;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;wo=
rd-spacing:0px;text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial"=
>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0So then I rotated the crank to get all the pistons to an=
almost even position and put paint thinner in the cylinders at the same de=
pth. No quick leak, not one cylinder faster than the others and all the flu=
id finally drained out smoothly and evenly in each cylinder.=C2=A0</div><di=
v style=3D"color:#000000;font-family:SFNSText,'Helvetica Neue',Helv=
etica,sans-serif;font-size:15px;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:no=
rmal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:300;letter-spacing:normal;text-al=
ign:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spaci=
ng:0px;text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial">=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0I'm a bit stumped. My next step is taking the head to a guy=
in town, an old machinist who builds his own engines and runs his car at B=
onneville in the 300 mph range. He knows what he's doing and I'm su=
re he will give me some sage advice and help. Also as a side note, I went o=
ver the head with a magnifying glass and can see now cracks, but that doesn=
't mean they are not there I know. I was just thinking with a 100 pound=
plus difference, something would be obvious.=C2=A0</div><div style=3D"colo=
r:#000000;font-family:SFNSText,'Helvetica Neue',Helvetica,sans-seri=
f;font-size:15px;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-varia=
nt-caps:normal;font-weight:300;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-=
indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-dec=
oration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0I am=
also going to be taking off the tappet cover on the side, inspect all the =
lifters and see what I can find there. Like I said, I'm a bit perplexed=
, but I'm not done. I will find something wrong! Here are some photos f=
or you, maybe you can see something I can't.</div><div style=3D"color:#=
000000;font-family:SFNSText,'Helvetica Neue',Helvetica,sans-serif;f=
ont-size:15px;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-=
caps:normal;font-weight:300;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-ind=
ent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decora=
tion-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial"><br></div><div style=3D"c=
olor:#000000;font-family:SFNSText,'Helvetica Neue',Helvetica,sans-s=
erif;font-size:15px;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-va=
riant-caps:normal;font-weight:300;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;te=
xt-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-=
decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial"><img alt=3D"IMG_202=
00311_143602.jpg" title=3D"IMG_20200311_143602.jpg" style=3D"margin:10px 10=
px 10px 0px" src=3D"http:///index.php/inbox/attachment/filenameOriginal/IMG=
_20200311_143602.jpg/filenamefs/INBOX37806df7c51cc87def12df6be1eff39641fa0"=
></div><div style=3D"color:#000000;font-family:SFNSText,'Helvetica Neue=
',Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:15px;font-style:normal;font-variant-li=
gatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:300;letter-spacing:norm=
al;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;=
word-spacing:0px;text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initia=
l">Here's the head, upside down and you can see the exhaust valve on nu=
mber two is blacker than the others, but no cracks, chips, or visible damag=
e.</div><div style=3D"color:#000000;font-family:SFNSText,'Helvetica Neu=
e',Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:15px;font-style:normal;font-variant-l=
igatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:300;letter-spacing:nor=
mal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal=
;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initi=
al"><img alt=3D"IMG_20200311_172123.jpg" title=3D"IMG_20200311_172123.jpg" =
style=3D"margin:10px 10px 10px 0px" src=3D"http:///index.php/inbox/attachme=
nt/filenameOriginal/IMG_20200311_172123.jpg/filenamefs/INBOX378063dbbf36941=
9c0843730f10637ee2493c"></div><div style=3D"color:#000000;font-family:SFNST=
ext,'Helvetica Neue',Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:15px;font-style=
:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:=
300;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:n=
one;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration-style:initial;text-=
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