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FWIW, I've used manganese-bronze guides--two sets--in my BJ8 for about
120K miles with nary a problem with the valve train. For my last
overhaul, about 6K miles ago, my overhauler/machinist didn't bat an eye
when I brought the guides to him, and they are a highly-respected
performance shop.
TBH, I never gave my choice a lot of thought, it just seemed bronze was
the way to go. Extensive research--okay, 10 minutes of searching the
interwebs--yielded a qualitative answer:
"Cast iron cannot be used with stainless steel [valves] because of its
tendency to gall."Â ([] mine)
- https://www.enginebuildermag.com/2013/04/valve-seats-guides/
Again, I never gave it a thought, but went with stainless exhaust valves
since that seems to be the predominant option.
Bob
On 3/15/2020 8:15 AM, Steven Kingsbury via Healeys wrote:
> Bill,
> Â Â Â From the research I have been doing, I am finding that what you are
> saying here is correct. 0.003 seems to be the preferred clearance in
> the bore for the valve stem. As such I am being torn in a number of
> ways as to what I'm going to do. As I sit right now, I'm going to
> order the steel guides as I have already ordered the manganese-bronze
> ones, and take them to the shop where I'm going to have the work done.
> Â Â Â My final decision might be a coin toss, but more than likely with
> all the information, guidance and remarks I have heard here from
> fellows on the list, the 0.003 bore hasn't caused problems with those
> using them in cast iron heads. And who knows, maybe they will discover
> some minor cracks in my head and then I will have no choice but to go
> with the aluminum head and my worries will be over.
> Â Â Â Bottom line, I can't thank you and others on this list enough for
> the education and guidance I'm getting. Confusion or not, this is
> still a fun experience made all the more so by folks in our community.
> Thank you all!
> Cheers,
> Steven Kingsbury
>
> On March 14, 2020 at 7:28 PM, WILLIAM B LAWRENCE <ynotink@msn.com> wrote:
>
>> Since the thermal expansion rates of bronze and iron are so different
>> the bronze guide can be crushed by the iron surrounding it thus
>> causing the valve stem to stick. The solution is to provide extra
>> clearance in the guide, which kind of negates the benefit of
>> replacing the guides in the first place. They do work well in alloy
>> heads though.
>>
>> Bill Lawrence
>> BN1 #554
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> *From:* Healeys <healeys-bounces@autox.team.net> on behalf of David P
>> <frogeye@porterscustom.com>
>> *Sent:* Saturday, March 14, 2020 2:36:26 PM
>> <healeys@autox.team.net>
>> *Subject:* Re: [Healeys] Four cylinder woes, part two!
>>
>> Steven, this is starting to make us both crazy. You have proved,
>> nearly conclusively that the rings and valves are sealing. To be sure
>> of those findings do this. On the offending cylinder rotate the
>> valves in the guides to ascertain one of the heads isn't bent and
>> only seals in one particular position. Second bring the piston to
>> near TDC and push on it to see if it moves laterally more than intact
>> rings would permit. Compare with the other pistons. This might
>> indicate a broken or weak ring that doesn't show up under cranking.
>> Lastly, yes a well worn cam lobe would indicate insufficient time for
>> cylinder filling. You might also look in the radiator for air bubbles
>> when cranking---another issue for gasket failure. Healey 4cyl heads
>> are notorious for leaking around the cyl bores esp with a solid
>> copper gasket. There is a gasket outfit in Lubbock TX that can make
>> individual rings, say 0.002-0.0025" to place over the gasket to
>> provide extra squish around the bores. PS always check compression
>> with the throttle wide open. DP
>>
>> On 3/13/2020 5:42 PM, Michael Salter wrote:
>>> Bronze guides...
>>> https://www.netbug.net/blogmichael/2007/05/15/bronze-giudes-in-cast-iron-cylinder-heads/
>>>
>>> On Sat, Mar 14, 2020, 12:17 PM Steven Kingsbury via Healeys,
>>>
>>> This is the first I have ever heard about the bronze valve
>>> guides being crushed. I had always heard they were the better
>>> ones and they are by far the more expensive. Not that money
>>> and/or expensive makes something better. I have heard though,
>>> that they are better, so this is a surprise.
>>> Â Â Â And yes, I will be checking everything over with a fine tooth
>>> comb all this weekend. With the amount of carbon I found on the
>>> valves I am for sure going to be checking the piston rings even
>>> though the cylinder walls are quite pristine. The reason?
>>> Finding less than stellar workmanship in the previous work done
>>> of this engine, I just don't trust that the rings were done
>>> correctly to begin with and since I'm here, I'm going to check.Â
>>> Peace of mind will be well worth it.
>>> Steven
>>>
>>> On March 13, 2020 at 11:47 AM, WILLIAM B LAWRENCE
>>>
>>>> Another consideration is whether you have bronze valve guides
>>>> in an iron head. These can cause problems due to the different
>>>> thermal expansion rates of the materials. The iron can crush
>>>> the bronze and cause the valve to stick.
>>>>
>>>> Bill Lawrence
>>>> BN1 #554
>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/healeys
>>>>>> <http://www.team.net/pipermail/healeys>
>>>>>> http://autox.team.net/archive <http://autox.team.net/archive>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/healeys
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Unsubscribe/Manage:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/healeys/ah100register@gmail.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>> <http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/healeys/ah100register@gmail.com>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Best wishes
>>>>>>
>>>>>> John Harper
>>>>>>
>>>>>> AHC UK 100 Register Secretary
>>>>>
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<body>
FWIW, I've used manganese-bronze guides--two sets--in my BJ8 for
about 120K miles with nary a problem with the valve train. For my
last overhaul, about 6K miles ago, my overhauler/machinist didn't
bat an eye when I brought the guides to him, and they are a
highly-respected performance shop.<br>
<br>
TBH, I never gave my choice a lot of thought, it just seemed bronze
was the way to go. Extensive research--okay, 10 minutes of
searching the interwebs--yielded a qualitative answer:<br>
<br>
"Cast iron cannot be used with stainless steel [valves] because of
its tendency to gall."Â ([] mine)<br>
<br>
- <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="https://www.enginebuildermag.com/2013/04/valve-seats-guides/";>https://www.enginebuildermag.com/2013/04/valve-seats-guides/</a><br>
<br>
Again, I never gave it a thought, but went with stainless exhaust
valves since that seems to be the predominant option.<br>
<br>
<br>
Bob<br>
<br>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 3/15/2020 8:15 AM, Steven Kingsbury
via Healeys wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:c6e2d6da-cb40-4708-ace4-81ad4456746c@me.com">
<meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
<div>Bill,</div>
<div>Â Â Â From the research I have been doing, I am finding that
what you are saying here is correct. 0.003 seems to be the
preferred clearance in the bore for the valve stem. As such I am
being torn in a number of ways as to what I'm going to do. As I
sit right now, I'm going to order the steel guides as I have
already ordered the manganese-bronze ones, and take them to the
shop where I'm going to have the work done.</div>
<div>Â Â Â My final decision might be a coin toss, but more than
likely with all the information, guidance and remarks I have
heard here from fellows on the list, the 0.003 bore hasn't
caused problems with those using them in cast iron heads. And
who knows, maybe they will discover some minor cracks in my head
and then I will have no choice but to go with the aluminum head
and my worries will be over. </div>
<div>Â Â Â Bottom line, I can't thank you and others on this list
enough for the education and guidance I'm getting. Confusion or
not, this is still a fun experience made all the more so by
folks in our community. Thank you all!</div>
<div>Cheers,</div>
<div>Steven Kingsbury </div>
<div><br>
On March 14, 2020 at 7:28 PM, WILLIAM B LAWRENCE
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:ynotink@msn.com";><ynotink@msn.com></a> wrote:<br>
<br>
</div>
<div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div class="msg-quote">Since the thermal expansion rates of
bronze and iron are so different the bronze guide can be
crushed by the iron surrounding it thus causing the valve
stem to stick. The solution is to provide extra clearance in
the guide, which kind of negates the benefit of replacing
the guides in the first place. They do work well in alloy
heads though.<br>
<br>
Bill Lawrence<br>
BN1 #554
<hr style="display: inline-block; width: 98%;"
data-mce-style="display: inline-block; width: 98%;">
<div id="divRplyFwdMsg" dir="ltr"><span face="Calibri,
sans-serif" data-mce-style="font-size: 11pt; color:
#000000; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"
style="font-size: 11pt; color: #000000; font-family:
Calibri, sans-serif;" color="#000000"><b>From:</b>
Healeys <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:healeys-bounces@autox.team.net";><healeys-bounces@autox.team.net></a>
on behalf
of David P <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:frogeye@porterscustom.com";><frogeye@porterscustom.com></a><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Saturday, March 14, 2020 2:36:26 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:healeys@autox.team.net";
data-mce-href="mailto:healeys@autox.team.net";
moz-do-not-send="true">healeys@autox.team.net</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:healeys@autox.team.net";><healeys@autox.team.net></a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Healeys] Four cylinder woes, part
two!</span>
<div>Â </div>
</div>
<div>
<p>Steven, this is starting to make us both crazy. You
have proved, nearly conclusively that the rings and
valves are sealing. To be sure of those findings do
this. On the offending cylinder rotate the valves in the
guides to ascertain one of the heads isn't bent and only
seals in one particular position. Second bring the
piston to near TDC and push on it to see if it moves
laterally more than intact rings would permit. Compare
with the other pistons. This might indicate a broken or
weak ring that doesn't show up under cranking. Lastly,
yes a well worn cam lobe would indicate insufficient
time for cylinder filling. You might also look in the
radiator for air bubbles when cranking---another issue
for gasket failure. Healey 4cyl heads are notorious for
leaking around the cyl bores esp with a solid copper
gasket. There is a gasket outfit in Lubbock TX that can
make individual rings, say 0.002-0.0025" to place over
the gasket to provide extra squish around the bores. PS
always check compression with the throttle wide open.Â
DP<br>
</p>
<div class="x_moz-cite-prefix">On 3/13/2020 5:42 PM,
Michael Salter wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="auto">Bronze guides...
<div dir="auto"><a
href="https://www.netbug.net/blogmichael/2007/05/15/bronze-giudes-in-cast-iron-cylinder-heads/";
data-mce-href="https://www.netbug.net/blogmichael/2007/05/15/bronze-giudes-in-cast-iron-cylinder-heads/";
moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.netbug.net/blogmichael/2007/05/15/bronze-giudes-in-cast-iron-cylinder-heads/</a><br>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="x_gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="x_gmail_attr">On Sat, Mar 14,
2020, 12:17 PM Steven Kingsbury via Healeys, <<a
href="mailto:healeys@autox.team.net";
data-mce-href="mailto:healeys@autox.team.net";
moz-do-not-send="true">healeys@autox.team.net</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="x_gmail_quote" style="margin: 0 0 0
.8ex; border-left: 1px #ccc solid; padding-left:
1ex;" data-mce-style="margin: 0 0 0 .8ex;
border-left: 1px #ccc solid; padding-left: 1ex;">
<div>
<div>This is the first I have ever heard about the
bronze valve guides being crushed. I had always
heard they were the better ones and they are by
far the more expensive. Not that money and/or
expensive makes something better. I have heard
though, that they are better, so this is a
surprise. </div>
<div>Â Â Â And yes, I will be checking everything
over with a fine tooth comb all this weekend.
With the amount of carbon I found on the valves
I am for sure going to be checking the piston
rings even though the cylinder walls are quite
pristine. The reason? Finding less than stellar
workmanship in the previous work done of this
engine, I just don't trust that the rings were
done correctly to begin with and since I'm here,
I'm going to check. Peace of mind will be well
worth it.</div>
<div>Steven</div>
<div><br>
On March 13, 2020 at 11:47 AM, WILLIAM B
LAWRENCE <<a href="mailto:ynotink@msn.com";
data-mce-href="mailto:ynotink@msn.com";
moz-do-not-send="true">ynotink@msn.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
<br>
</div>
<div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div>Another consideration is whether you have
bronze valve guides in an iron head. These
can cause problems due to the different
thermal expansion rates of the materials.
The iron can crush the bronze and cause the
valve to stick.<br>
<br>
Bill Lawrence<br>
BN1 #554<br>
<hr style="display: inline-block; width:
98%;" data-mce-style="display:
inline-block; width: 98%;"><br>
<div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div>
<div>
<blockquote style="margin: 0px
0px 0px 0.8ex; border-left:
1px solid #cccccc;
padding-left: 1ex;"
data-mce-style="margin: 0px
0px 0px 0.8ex; border-left:
1px solid #cccccc;
padding-left: 1ex;"> <br>
Archive: <a
href="http://www.team.net/pipermail/healeys";
data-mce-href="http://www.team.net/pipermail/healeys";
moz-do-not-send="true">
http://www.team.net/pipermail/healeys</a>
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data-mce-href="http://autox.team.net/archive"; moz-do-not-send="true">
http://autox.team.net/archive</a><br>
<br>
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href="mailto:Healeys@autox.team.net";
data-mce-href="mailto:Healeys@autox.team.net";
moz-do-not-send="true">Healeys@autox.team.net</a><br>
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</blockquote>
</div>
<br clear="all">
<div><br>
</div>
-- <br>
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">Best wishes
<div><br>
</div>
<div>John Harper</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>AHC UK 100 Register
Secretary</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
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