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Re: [Spridgets] VIN number issue

To: GUY DAY <grday@btinternet.com>
Subject: Re: [Spridgets] VIN number issue
From: Rick Fisk via Spridgets <spridgets@autox.team.net>
Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2015 10:02:26 -0400
Cc: Spridget list <Spridgets@autox.team.net>
Delivered-to: mharc@autox.team.net
Delivered-to: spridgets@autox.team.net
References: <5510BE2A.1090701@gmail.com> <1427194014.72320.YahooMailNeo@web172706.mail.ir2.yahoo.com> <67DF375A-B31C-431A-A7B0-3E61F80F2355@chartermi.net> <1427203405.76241.YahooMailNeo@web172704.mail.ir2.yahoo.com>
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I think we are talking about different things here.  :-)  I believe the "Reg=
istration" plate you are referring to is what we call a "License" plate here=
 in the states.  This is the plate on the rear (and in some states the front=
) of the car. =20

The chassis ID plate on a Bugeye is not fastened with rivets, it's fastened w=
ith crosshead screws.    I'm referring to the ID plate mounted on the chassi=
s rail under the carbs.  There is no riveted VIN plate on a Bugeye in the US=
A.  The engine plate was riveted, but makes no difference, because it was no=
t used for registration purposes.  Hot tanking the engine block will dissolv=
e the aluminum engine plate.

Sent from my keyboard

> On Mar 24, 2015, at 9:23 AM, GUY DAY <grday@btinternet.com> wrote:
>=20
> This is the chassis (VIN) and engine plates I was referring to; not the re=
gistration number plate.  Having said that - this would appear to be the one=
 that does fall off most as sometimes the cross head screws will undo with v=
ibration.  <smile>  The rivets holding the VIN and engine plates don't, they=
 have to be taken off on purpose - but as said, there can be valid reasons f=
or this.
>=20
> Guy R Day
>=20
>=20
> From: Rick Fisk <refisk@chartermi.net>
> To: GUY DAY <grday@btinternet.com>=20
> Cc: Bob Spruck <raspruck@gmail.com>; Spridget list <Spridgets@autox.team.n=
et>=20
> Sent: Tuesday, 24 March 2015, 13:09
> Subject: Re: [Spridgets] VIN number issue
>=20
> The number plate on a Bugeye does not fall off on it's own.  But they were=
 fastened to the car with crosshead screws.  To many people that means take i=
t off when doing a "restoration".  And then for whatever reason the plate do=
es not get reinstalled.
>=20
> The fact that the car has been registered in two different states indicate=
s to me that it's probably OK.  But check the other locations for numbers.  :=
-)
>=20
> Sent from my keyboard
>=20
>> On Mar 24, 2015, at 6:46 AM, GUY DAY via Spridgets <spridgets@autox.team.=
net> wrote:
>>=20
>=20
>> Should you be wary about anomalies such as this?  If you had ever been th=
e owner of a car stolen from you then this would ring very loud warning bell=
s.=20
>> If the engine is meant to be original then look for the aluminium engine n=
umber plate riveted on a horizontal platform towards the front of the block.=
  Has that gone missing as well?  Then you go looking for paint colour oddit=
ies and because it is a 50 year old car there is guaranteed to be something.=
=20
>>=20
>> There can be 1001 good, honest reasons for the oddities with this motor b=
ut will you be thinking, in the back of your mind, that this was someone's p=
ride and joy before it was taken and changed into what is seen before me.  I=
f you don't get it then some else will and does your inner voice say, 'Its a=
 50 odd year old car, there are bound to be some faults', or does it say, 'T=
his car isn't right, stay well clear'.
>>=20
>> Identifying plates do not normally fall off on their own and my 45 year o=
ld Sprite has them where they should be.  It is not just the anomaly in the n=
umber it is the reason the anomaly has arisen that should be looked into.
>>=20
>> Sorry to be so negative but as an owner who has had cars taken (yes, plur=
al) it does bring things to the fore again.
>>=20
>>=20
>> Guy R Day=20
>>=20
>>=20
>>=20
>>=20
>>=20
>>=20
>> From: Bob Spruck via Spridgets <spridgets@autox.team.net>
>> To: Spridget list <Spridgets@autox.team.net>=20
>> Sent: Tuesday, 24 March 2015, 1:30
>> Subject: [Spridgets] VIN number issue
>>=20
>> On a Bugeye I am interested in, I have discovered an apparent anomaly in t=
he year and VIN. The car has no VIN plate but is considered to be a 1961 Mk1=
 and has been registered in two states as such. However, the VIN is listed o=
n both registrations as AN5L xxxx. Since they made, what, 59,000 Bugeyes and=
 ended in 1961, a car considered a '61 should have a five digit number, some=
where approaching 59,000. If the four digit number is correct, it should be,=
 I expect, maybe a '59.=20
>>=20
>> Is there any other place that the VIN appears? Or any other way of determ=
ining the true VIN number or true year of manufacture?
>>=20
>> Perhaps I should just leave well enough alone?
>>=20
>> Bob Spruck
>> Sharpsburg, GA=20
>>=20
>> '72 Midget
>> '67 Midget Vintage Racer
>> Maybe a '59 or '61 Bugeye
>>=20
>>=20
>=20
>=20

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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"content-type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3D=
utf-8"></head><body dir=3D"auto"><div>I think we are talking about different=
 things here. &nbsp;:-) &nbsp;I believe the "Registration" plate you are ref=
erring to is what we call a "License" plate here in the states. &nbsp;This i=
s the plate on the rear (and in some states the front) of the car. &nbsp;</d=
iv><div><br></div><div>The chassis ID plate on a Bugeye is not fastened with=
 rivets, it's fastened with crosshead screws. &nbsp; &nbsp;I'm referring to t=
he ID plate mounted on the chassis rail under the carbs. &nbsp;There is no r=
iveted VIN plate on a Bugeye in the USA. &nbsp;The engine plate was riveted,=
 but makes no difference, because it was not used for registration purposes.=
 &nbsp;Hot tanking the engine block will dissolve the aluminum engine plate.=
<br><br>Sent from my keyboard</div><div><br>On Mar 24, 2015, at 9:23 AM, GUY=
 DAY &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:grday@btinternet.com";>grday@btinternet.com</a>&gt=
; wrote:<br><br></div><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div><div style=3D"color:#00=
0; background-color:#fff; font-family:arial, helvetica, sans-serif;font-size=
:12pt"><div><span>This is the chassis (VIN) and engine plates&nbsp;</span><s=
pan style=3D"font-size: 12pt;">I was referring to;</span><span style=3D"font=
-size: 12pt;">&nbsp;not the registration number plate. &nbsp;Having said tha=
t - this would appear to be the one that does fall off most as sometimes the=
 cross head screws will undo with vibration. &nbsp;&lt;smile&gt; &nbsp;The r=
ivets holding the VIN and engine plates don't, they have to be taken off on p=
urpose - but as said, there can be valid reasons for this.</span></div><div s=
tyle=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 12pt; font-family: arial, helvetica,=
 sans-serif; font-style: normal; background-color: transparent;"><span style=
=3D"font-size: 12pt;"><br></span></div><div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); fo=
nt-size: 16px; font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-style: normal=
; background-color:
 transparent;"><span style=3D"font-size: 12pt;">Guy R Day</span></div><div><=
span></span></div><div style=3D"font-size: 12pt; background-color: transpare=
nt;"><span style=3D"font-size: 12pt;"><br></span></div><div><br></div>  <div=
 style=3D"font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;"> <div=
 style=3D"font-family: 'times new roman', 'new york', times, serif; font-siz=
e: 12pt;"> <div dir=3D"ltr"> <hr size=3D"1">  <font size=3D"2" face=3D"Arial=
"> <b><span style=3D"font-weight:bold;">From:</span></b> Rick Fisk &lt;<a hr=
ef=3D"mailto:refisk@chartermi.net";>refisk@chartermi.net</a>&gt;<br> <b><span=
 style=3D"font-weight: bold;">To:</span></b> GUY DAY &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:g=
rday@btinternet.com">grday@btinternet.com</a>&gt; <br><b><span style=3D"font=
-weight: bold;">Cc:</span></b> Bob Spruck &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:raspruck@gma=
il.com">raspruck@gmail.com</a>&gt;; Spridget list &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Spri=
dgets@autox.team.net">Spridgets@autox.team.net</a>&gt; <br> <b><span style=3D=
"font-weight: bold;">Sent:</span></b> Tuesday, 24 March 2015, 13:09<br> <b><=
span style=3D"font-weight: bold;">Subject:</span></b> Re: [Spridgets] VIN nu=
mber issue<br> </font> </div>
 <div class=3D"y_msg_container"><br><div id=3D"yiv2590157070"><div><div>The n=
umber plate on a Bugeye does not fall off on it's own. &nbsp;But they were f=
astened to the car with crosshead screws. &nbsp;To many people that means ta=
ke it off when doing a "restoration". &nbsp;And then for whatever reason the=
 plate does not get reinstalled.</div><div><br clear=3D"none"></div><div>The=
 fact that the car has been registered in two different states indicates to m=
e that it's probably OK. &nbsp;But check the other locations for numbers. &n=
bsp;:-)<br clear=3D"none"><br clear=3D"none">Sent from my keyboard</div><div=
><div class=3D"yiv2590157070yqt0743328313" id=3D"yiv2590157070yqtfd13970"><b=
r clear=3D"none">On Mar 24, 2015, at 6:46 AM, GUY DAY via Spridgets &lt;<a r=
el=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"rect" ymailto=3D"mailto:spridgets@autox.team.net"; t=
arget=3D"_blank" href=3D"mailto:spridgets@autox.team.net";>spridgets@autox.te=
am.net</a>&gt; wrote:<br clear=3D"none"><br clear=3D"none"></div></div><div c=
lass=3D"yiv2590157070yqt0743328313" id=3D"yiv2590157070yqtfd12009"><blockquo=
te type=3D"cite"><div><div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: arial,=
 helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255=
);"><div><span>Should you be wary about anomalies such as this? &nbsp;If you=
 had ever been the owner of a car stolen from you then this would ring very l=
oud warning bells.&nbsp;</span></div><div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font=
-size: 16px; font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-style: normal; b=
ackground-color: transparent;"><span>If the engine is meant to be original t=
hen look for the aluminium engine number plate riveted on a horizontal platf=
orm towards the front of the block. &nbsp;Has that gone missing as well? &nb=
sp;Then you go looking for paint colour oddities and because it is a 50 year=
 old car there is guaranteed to be something.&nbsp;</span></div><div style=3D=
"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 16px; font-family: arial,
 helvetica, sans-serif; font-style: normal; background-color: transparent;">=
<span><br clear=3D"none"></span></div><div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); fon=
t-size: 16px; font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-style: normal;=
 background-color: transparent;"><span>There can be 1001 good, honest reason=
s for the oddities with this motor but will you be thinking, in the back of y=
our mind, that this was someone's pride and joy before it was taken and chan=
ged into what is seen before me. &nbsp;If you don't get it then some else wi=
ll and does your inner voice say, 'Its a 50 odd year old car, there are boun=
d to be some faults', or does it say, 'This car isn't right, stay well clear=
'.</span></div><div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 16px; font-fami=
ly: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-style: normal; background-color: tran=
sparent;"><span><br clear=3D"none"></span></div><div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0=
, 0); font-size: 16px; font-family: arial, helvetica,
 sans-serif; font-style: normal; background-color: transparent;"><span>Ident=
ifying plates do not normally fall off on their own and my 45
 year old Sprite has them where they should be. &nbsp;It is not just the ano=
maly in the number it is the reason the anomaly has arisen that should be lo=
oked into.</span></div><div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 16px; f=
ont-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-style: normal; background-col=
or: transparent;"><span><br clear=3D"none"></span></div><div style=3D"color:=
 rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 16px; font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; f=
ont-style: normal; background-color: transparent;"><span>Sorry to be so nega=
tive but as an owner who has had cars taken (yes, plural) it does bring thin=
gs to the fore again.</span></div><div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-si=
ze: 16px; font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-style: normal; bac=
kground-color: transparent;"><span><br clear=3D"none"></span></div><div styl=
e=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 16px; font-family: arial, helvetica, sa=
ns-serif; font-style: normal; background-color:
 transparent;"><span><br clear=3D"none"></span></div><div style=3D"color: rg=
b(0, 0, 0); font-size: 16px; font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font=
-style: normal; background-color: transparent;"><span>Guy R Day&nbsp;</span>=
</div><div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 16px; font-family: arial=
, helvetica, sans-serif; font-style: normal; background-color: transparent;"=
><span><br clear=3D"none"></span></div><div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); fo=
nt-size: 16px; font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-style: normal=
; background-color: transparent;"><span><br clear=3D"none"></span></div><div=
 style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 16px; font-family: arial, helvetic=
a, sans-serif; font-style: normal; background-color: transparent;"><span><br=
 clear=3D"none"></span></div><div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 1=
6px; font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-style: normal; backgrou=
nd-color: transparent;"><span><br clear=3D"none"></span></div><div style=3D"=
color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 16px; font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-se=
rif; font-style: normal; background-color: transparent;"><span><br clear=3D"=
none"></span></div><div><br clear=3D"none"></div>  <div style=3D"font-family=
: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;"> <div style=3D"font-family=
: 'times new roman', 'new york', times, serif; font-size: 12pt;"> <div dir=3D=
"ltr"> <hr size=3D"1">  <font size=3D"2" face=3D"Arial"> <b><span style=3D"f=
ont-weight:bold;">From:</span></b> Bob Spruck via Spridgets &lt;<a rel=3D"no=
follow" shape=3D"rect" ymailto=3D"mailto:spridgets@autox.team.net"; target=3D=
"_blank" href=3D"mailto:spridgets@autox.team.net";>spridgets@autox.team.net</=
a>&gt;<br clear=3D"none"> <b><span style=3D"font-weight:bold;">To:</span></b=
> Spridget list &lt;<a rel=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"rect" ymailto=3D"mailto:Spr=
idgets@autox.team.net" target=3D"_blank" href=3D"mailto:Spridgets@autox.team=
.net">Spridgets@autox.team.net</a>&gt; <br clear=3D"none"> <b><span style=3D=
"font-weight:bold;">Sent:</span></b> Tuesday, 24 March 2015, 1:30<br clear=3D=
"none"> <b><span style=3D"font-weight:bold;">Subject:</span></b> [Spridgets]=
 VIN number issue<br clear=3D"none"> </font> </div> <div class=3D"yiv2590157=
070y_msg_container"><br clear=3D"none"><div id=3D"yiv2590157070">
 =20

   =20
 =20
  <div>
    <font size=3D"+1"><font face=3D"Arial">On a Bugeye I am interested in, I=

        have discovered an apparent anomaly in the year and VIN. The car
        has no VIN plate but is considered to be a 1961 Mk1 and has been
        registered in two states as such. However, the VIN is listed on
        both registrations as AN5L xxxx. Since they made, what, 59,000
        Bugeyes and ended in 1961, a car considered a '61 should have a
        five digit number, somewhere approaching 59,000. If the four
        digit number is correct, it should be, I expect, maybe a '59. <br cl=
ear=3D"none">
        <br clear=3D"none">
        Is there any other place that the VIN appears? Or any other way
        of determining the true VIN number or true year of manufacture?<br c=
lear=3D"none">
        <br clear=3D"none">
        Perhaps I should just leave well enough alone?<br clear=3D"none">
        <br clear=3D"none">
        Bob Spruck<br clear=3D"none">
        Sharpsburg, GA <br clear=3D"none">
        <br clear=3D"none">
        '72 Midget<br clear=3D"none">
        '67 Midget Vintage Racer<br clear=3D"none">
        Maybe a '59 or '61 Bugeye<br clear=3D"none">
        <br clear=3D"none">
      </font></font>
  </div>

</div></div></div></div></div></div></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"><=
div><br clear=3D"none"></div></blockquote></div></div></div><br><br></div> <=
/div> </div>  </div></div></blockquote></body></html>=

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