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Re: Ayers Roll Hold the Mayo *Foster - You are a sad, sad man*

To: "Jason Saini" <speedyj73@yahoo.com>, <autox@autox.team.net>
Subject: Re: Ayers Roll Hold the Mayo *Foster - You are a sad, sad man*
From: "HEYWARD WAGNER" <h_kenyon@email.msn.com>
Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2000 18:30:53 -0400
This empty promise was made over 6 hours ago.....

I am going to get my hammer.

Mr. Foster Wrote:
I'll just quietly watch from now on as you all put the last nails in the
coffin.


--------------------------------------------------------------------
Heyward K. Wagner
TEAM UNDERDOG RACING
Honda Civic Si - HS #48
www.teamunderdog.com
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1-877-945-7446
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----- Original Message ----- 
From: Jason Saini <speedyj73@yahoo.com>
To: <autox@autox.team.net>
Sent: Tuesday, June 13, 2000 6:23 PM
Subject: Re: Ayers Roll Hold the Mayo *Foster - You are a sad, sad man*


> Paul Foster wrote:
> 
> >Although it is hard to come to any sort of rational conclusion without
> >more facts, there are still a number of factors that everybody seems
> >to be glossing over. This was a very fast section where the driver had
> >to navigate a very tight corner. Furthermore, the car ended up close
> >to another car and in the proximity of the timing trailer. Those
> >appear to be the facts and they are not good.
> 
> I don't know why I am even dignifying your response with a rebuttal,
> but I just can't stand to listen to your pompous attitude any longer. 
> When did you get the idea in your head that you know everything, and
> that you are unable to make mistakes?  My god man... get a grip.  First
> of all, stop trying to make comments about events that you did not
> attend.  The comments you make about the timing trailer/other car are
> way off base...  Next time you think about opening your mouth, ask
> yourself how much you know about the actual situation.  Then, do us all
> a favor and refrain from reminding us how stupid we are, and how much
> safer the event could have been **if the great Paul Foster** had been
> there.  Where do you get off thinking that you are better at making an
> event safe than the hard-working people that are doing it every
> weekend?  And for that matter, if you are so good, why don't you come
> out to these events and help out instead of waiting for an incident to
> happen so you can jump on everyone involved.  Do you have any idea how
> ridiculous you sound spouting your rhetoric?
> 
> >Now there are lots of people who state that not every condition can be
> >considered, but this sure sounds like a situation which could have
> >been avoided. What would have happened if a heavy prepared car had had
> >it's throttle stick? Never happens? Shouldn't be considered? I
> >disagree. If you are going to have high speed sections they should be
> >in the back away from such hard obstacles with a great deal of runoff.
> >And they should give the driver some leeway to recover from mistakes
> >without having to worry about hitting something or someone. In this
> >case it didn't appear to be the case.
> 
> Once again, making comments about a situation that you have
> *absolutely* no idea about...  You have about as good a chance of
> guessing what I had for lunch today as you do of guessing what the
> course looked like in the section where the incident happened.  Are you
> going to start telling me that I need to eat better?  You telling me
> that is the same as you telling everyone else that they are not making
> events safe enough...  you are speaking about something that you have
> very little, if any, information about.
> 
> >And I simply do not buy the bad shocks theory. That is no excuse,
> >particularly with only 60K miles on a stock car. It sounds more like
> >the car was going too fast for the driver to properly react in a safe
> >manner. This sport is all about relative newcomers strapping on a set
> >of sticky tires to their stock daily driver and having fun without the
> >immediate concern of trashing their car. I really hate to see that
> >change because I believe it is the greatest thing about autocrossing.
> 
> Cars roll...  you get a tall, high CG car sideways with sticky tires on
> it and *bad shocks* that don't do a good job of controlling weight
> transfer, there is a chance that it could go over.  So now we have to
> design courses that leave no chance for a car to go sideways?  Give me
> a break!  I'd like to see one of your courses...  it would be so
> freaking boring that everyone would leave the event.  You would
> probably put up speed limit signs and write people tickets for
> exceeding them in the fast areas, because they are going 'to fast to
> react in a safe manner.'  Why don't you do us all a favor and keep your
> mouth shut.
> 
> >This is not a professional sport where incidents can be shrugged off.
> >This is a sport where there should never be an injury. This is a sport
> >where there should never be a rollover of a stock car owned by a
> >relatively poor student. This is a sport which does not require an
> >ambulance in attendance, nor does it require roll bars or cages,
> >drivers suits, or window nets. Those sports exist but I really hate to
> >see autocross become one of them. And I don't think our insuror is
> >going to be too pleased with the number of recent incidents either.
> 
> Driving to the grocery store is not a professional sport either, yet
> many people die doing just that.  We are pushing out cars to the limit
> out there, and you are kidding yourself if you think that we can
> completely eliminate the risk of *any* incident occurring.  How can you
> be so dense?  Please *PLEASE* spare us your harangues about safety and
> how we are all failing at it.  The people running these events are very
> dedicated, and most do it on their own time in a volunteer capacity. 
> If you can do it so much better, I suggest you volunteer.
> 
> >Some of you think it is just the odds. It doesn't really matter
> >because unless it stops autocrossing will either come to a quick end,
> >or the relative expense, the lack of licensing, and the lack of safety
> >equipment will have to change. It is our choice. Our reaction to such
> >incidents will be the major impetus. Do we shrug it off or do we do
> >everything we can to ensure it doesn't happen again? It is up to us.
> 
> I don't think autocross is in any danger of coming to a quick end... 
> However I hope your uninformed, derogative and condescending posts do
> come to a quick end.  But that's asking for way too much, I know.  Have
> a nice day!
> 
> -Jason Saini  .  Chicago, IL
> -'93 Corrado  .  GS Sleeper
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __________________________________________________
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