I can't stand it any longer...and have to interject an observation. Over
the years, most car rollovers seem to follow a three or more gate
slalom-like problem followed by a right hand turn. From what I could gather
from Matt Murray's art, that's what happened at Ayer. The high CG cars,
mostly econoboxes find that, though the wheels want to go right, the upper
weight of the car still wants to go where the momentum is taking it. I'm
sure a physicist can explain this with a wonderful equation, but the result
will be the same: over we go! It even happened on the north course at
Topeka, and that was aggravated by a unsmooth part of the pavement, as I
recall.
I think course designers should keep as a rule of thumb in the back of
their minds not to use this kind of a problem, the weight of the driver,
plus the higher CG can cause such a vehicle to tip over. Now, if the driver
is on the right side of the car, the conditions are reversed...right hand
drive Minis, tho I've never seen one of those tip over.
--Pat Kelly
HEYWARD WAGNER wrote:
> This empty promise was made over 6 hours ago.....
>
> I am going to get my hammer.
>
> Mr. Foster Wrote:
> I'll just quietly watch from now on as you all put the last nails in the
> coffin.
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
> Heyward K. Wagner
> TEAM UNDERDOG RACING
> Honda Civic Si - HS #48
> www.teamunderdog.com
> IMPACT GRAPHICS
> Custom Automotive Graphics - Numbers - Magnetics - Static Cling
> 1-877-945-7446
> -------------------------------------------------------------------
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Jason Saini <speedyj73@yahoo.com>
> To: <autox@autox.team.net>
> Sent: Tuesday, June 13, 2000 6:23 PM
> Subject: Re: Ayers Roll Hold the Mayo *Foster - You are a sad, sad man*
>
> > Paul Foster wrote:
> >
> > >Although it is hard to come to any sort of rational conclusion without
> > >more facts, there are still a number of factors that everybody seems
> > >to be glossing over. This was a very fast section where the driver had
> > >to navigate a very tight corner. Furthermore, the car ended up close
> > >to another car and in the proximity of the timing trailer. Those
> > >appear to be the facts and they are not good.
> >
> > I don't know why I am even dignifying your response with a rebuttal,
> > but I just can't stand to listen to your pompous attitude any longer.
> > When did you get the idea in your head that you know everything, and
> > that you are unable to make mistakes? My god man... get a grip. First
> > of all, stop trying to make comments about events that you did not
> > attend. The comments you make about the timing trailer/other car are
> > way off base... Next time you think about opening your mouth, ask
> > yourself how much you know about the actual situation. Then, do us all
> > a favor and refrain from reminding us how stupid we are, and how much
> > safer the event could have been **if the great Paul Foster** had been
> > there. Where do you get off thinking that you are better at making an
> > event safe than the hard-working people that are doing it every
> > weekend? And for that matter, if you are so good, why don't you come
> > out to these events and help out instead of waiting for an incident to
> > happen so you can jump on everyone involved. Do you have any idea how
> > ridiculous you sound spouting your rhetoric?
> >
> > >Now there are lots of people who state that not every condition can be
> > >considered, but this sure sounds like a situation which could have
> > >been avoided. What would have happened if a heavy prepared car had had
> > >it's throttle stick? Never happens? Shouldn't be considered? I
> > >disagree. If you are going to have high speed sections they should be
> > >in the back away from such hard obstacles with a great deal of runoff.
> > >And they should give the driver some leeway to recover from mistakes
> > >without having to worry about hitting something or someone. In this
> > >case it didn't appear to be the case.
> >
> > Once again, making comments about a situation that you have
> > *absolutely* no idea about... You have about as good a chance of
> > guessing what I had for lunch today as you do of guessing what the
> > course looked like in the section where the incident happened. Are you
> > going to start telling me that I need to eat better? You telling me
> > that is the same as you telling everyone else that they are not making
> > events safe enough... you are speaking about something that you have
> > very little, if any, information about.
> >
> > >And I simply do not buy the bad shocks theory. That is no excuse,
> > >particularly with only 60K miles on a stock car. It sounds more like
> > >the car was going too fast for the driver to properly react in a safe
> > >manner. This sport is all about relative newcomers strapping on a set
> > >of sticky tires to their stock daily driver and having fun without the
> > >immediate concern of trashing their car. I really hate to see that
> > >change because I believe it is the greatest thing about autocrossing.
> >
> > Cars roll... you get a tall, high CG car sideways with sticky tires on
> > it and *bad shocks* that don't do a good job of controlling weight
> > transfer, there is a chance that it could go over. So now we have to
> > design courses that leave no chance for a car to go sideways? Give me
> > a break! I'd like to see one of your courses... it would be so
> > freaking boring that everyone would leave the event. You would
> > probably put up speed limit signs and write people tickets for
> > exceeding them in the fast areas, because they are going 'to fast to
> > react in a safe manner.' Why don't you do us all a favor and keep your
> > mouth shut.
> >
> > >This is not a professional sport where incidents can be shrugged off.
> > >This is a sport where there should never be an injury. This is a sport
> > >where there should never be a rollover of a stock car owned by a
> > >relatively poor student. This is a sport which does not require an
> > >ambulance in attendance, nor does it require roll bars or cages,
> > >drivers suits, or window nets. Those sports exist but I really hate to
> > >see autocross become one of them. And I don't think our insuror is
> > >going to be too pleased with the number of recent incidents either.
> >
> > Driving to the grocery store is not a professional sport either, yet
> > many people die doing just that. We are pushing out cars to the limit
> > out there, and you are kidding yourself if you think that we can
> > completely eliminate the risk of *any* incident occurring. How can you
> > be so dense? Please *PLEASE* spare us your harangues about safety and
> > how we are all failing at it. The people running these events are very
> > dedicated, and most do it on their own time in a volunteer capacity.
> > If you can do it so much better, I suggest you volunteer.
> >
> > >Some of you think it is just the odds. It doesn't really matter
> > >because unless it stops autocrossing will either come to a quick end,
> > >or the relative expense, the lack of licensing, and the lack of safety
> > >equipment will have to change. It is our choice. Our reaction to such
> > >incidents will be the major impetus. Do we shrug it off or do we do
> > >everything we can to ensure it doesn't happen again? It is up to us.
> >
> > I don't think autocross is in any danger of coming to a quick end...
> > However I hope your uninformed, derogative and condescending posts do
> > come to a quick end. But that's asking for way too much, I know. Have
> > a nice day!
> >
> > -Jason Saini . Chicago, IL
> > -'93 Corrado . GS Sleeper
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > __________________________________________________
> > Yahoo! Photos -- now, 100 FREE prints!
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