Actually, Jerry, there are two STS competitors, one at Round 1, and one at
Round 2. If we made the class available, perhaps we'd have more. One your word,
I moved the STS guy into Street Tire class, and did not mark him wrong run
group, even though he did run in the wrong group. But when a person reads the
classes available in the rule book, sees STS, s/he could logically conclude,
since even some classes NOT listed are available (OSP), STS would also be a
viable class at SFR events.
--Pat Kelly
Jerry Mouton wrote:
> Craig,
>
> We voted to run only STR as out Street Touring class last year.
> The logic was that STS cars could run completely according to
> national rules inside our Street Tire class. So we don't dump them
> together, they are actually run in separate run groups.
>
> No problem for competitors in ST- ST -- as you suggest, we use the
> STR PAX for comparison with other Street Tire cars. Within the set
> of ST-ST cars -- actually STS, exactly -- the PAX they are assigned
> makes no difference. They all have the same index.
>
> If a Street Touring car wants to run PAX class, they need R tires to be
> competitive. Not required of course, but good for one's times.
>
> So I don't get "honoring" the STS PAX. What having a specific STS index
> would do is allow STS drivers to calculate an indexed time that moved
> them up in the overall indexed order of finish. But, this is just a fun
> listing
> anyway -- there's no sanctioned competition there. It's a mind game. And
> in the game people can adjust their times any way the want in the privacy of
> their
> own home -- including calculating their indexed time using the STS index.
>
> What is missing is the STS trophies. You have to WIN Street Tire to
> get a trophy, instead of just winning in the smaller STS group. The rules
> are pretty weird with respect to Street Touring/Street Modified. They are
> defined ONLY in an appendix, unlike the other categories. In 1999 the
> rules made it clear that it was a template for Regional classes. The
> wording
> in 2000 is different, and these are Nationally run classes now. Perhaps
> we should review it in the Steering Committee.
>
> I would be happy to calculate ST Street Tire entrants on the overall lists
> using the STS index, if there are any competitors who will use it. Just
> have
> them come to the Steering Committee and we can work out the details.
>
> We had no ST Street Tire entrants in Round 1. We had one I saw yesterday,
> and he was a first-timer, I think. Who would really be affected by this
> issue?
> Are you planning to run ST- Street Tire? I guess it sort of bugs me to
> have
> people make us do work on strictly theoretical grounds. I would want to see
> a
> group of interested competitors before I voted for any change. That's how
> Street Touring got started in SFR, that's how Karts got started here.
> The move to STR instead of STS was at the request of Street Touring
> entrants.
> What's your interest, Craig?
>
> Jerry
>
> Jerry Mouton mailto:jerry@moutons.org Laissez les bons temps
> rouler!
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Craig Boyle <craig_boyle@yahoo.com>
> To: <ba-autox@autox.team.net>
> Cc: <lollipop@ricochet.net>; <jerry@moutons.org>
> Sent: Sunday, March 12, 2000 8:50 PM
> Subject: Re: FW: 2000 PAX Street Touring Index
>
> >
> > Aren't STS and STR separate national classes?,
> > therefore shouldn't we honor both of them individually
> > rather than collectively? I noticed that the round 1
> > results dumped both classes together and with the same
> > (STR) pax.
> >
> > It *would* be unfair if someone were to enter an STS
> > car in the catch-all street tire pax class. All we
> > have to do is prohibit this or use the STR pax for
> > this case.
> >
> > However as long as an STS car only enters STS or the
> > general PAX class, what's the problem honoring the STS
> > pax?
> >
> > The merge of STS/STR "screws" anyone running an STS
> > car. And since STS is a national class, rather than a
> > local class like street tire, STS should come first.
> >
> >
> >
> > ...>
> > > I don't think CSCC is right. The STS index can't be
> > > used to handicap
> > > Street Touring cars.
> > >
> > > Remember that the Street Tire PAX for other classes,
> > > like CSP, are
> > > compiled using R Tire competition. If you use the
> > > STS PAX, you
> > > are comparing apples to oranges, and giving Street
> > > Touring a 2 second
> > > per minute advantage in Street Tire class. I think
> > > that's what Barry was
> > > referring to.
> > >
> > > Running a BS car against a Street Touring car in
> > > Street Tire, you will have
> > > just about the same index. That's not too far off.
> > >
> > > If you use the STS index for Street Touring Street
> > > Tire, you will be indexed
> > > just
> > > about the same as an HS car running against you.
> > > Not fair.
> > >
> > > We need to use the STR index for Street Touring.
> > >
> > > Jerry
> > >
> > >
> > > Jerry Mouton mailto:jerry@moutons.org
> > > Laissez les bons temps
> > > rouler!
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: Pat Kelly <lollipop@ricochet.net>
> > > To: <bchafin@attglobal.net>
> > > Cc: Jerry Mouton <jerry@moutons.org>; Jesus
> > > Villarreal <jesvilla@gte.net>
> > > Sent: Friday, March 03, 2000 8:37 AM
> > > Subject: Re: [Fwd: [Fwd: Fwd: 1999 PAX Street
> > > Touring Index]]
> > >
> > >
> > > > CSCC is correct. .783 for STS. STR is .810; and SM
> > > is .846. AAS needs to
> > > > update. It's all on the lower left hand corner of
> > > page 2 of the Feb. issue
> > > of
> > > > Pylon.
> > > > --Pat K
> > > >
> > > > bchafin@attglobal.net wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Hey Pat,
> > > > >
> > > > > Any progress on the official PAX?
> > > > >
> > > > > CSCC scored Street Touring @ .783 PAX on 2/13/00
> > > and I noticed the AAS
> > > > > web site is using .829
> > > (http://www.americanauto-x.com/class/pax.asp).
> > > > > At .783 I might just want to sell the Kumhos and
> > > run ST-ST :^).
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks,
> > > > >
> > > > > Barry
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > >
> > http://streettouring.homepage.com/st_drivers/b_chaffin/barry_1.jpg
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > >
> > > > > Subject: [Fwd: Fwd: 1999 PAX Street Touring
> > > Index]
> > > > > Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 09:09:47 -0800
> > > > > From: bchafin@attglobal.net
> > > > > To: Pat Kelly <lollipop@ricochet.net>,
> > > > > Jerry Mouton <jerry@moutons.org>
> > > > > CC: Andy McKee <andrewmckee@yahoo.com>,
> > > > > Charlie Davis <Smokerbros@aol.com>, Chris
> > > Kannan <CKannan@aol.com>,
> > > > > "Esra, Phil" <PEsra@air.org>, Gary McDaniel
> > > <garymac@usa.net>,
> > > > > Phil Esra <pesra@yahoo.com>, "Watson, Mark"
> > > <Mark.Watson@Schwab.COM>
> > > > >
> > > > > Pat/Jerry,
> > > > >
> > > > > I had a chance to run Street Touring - Street
> > > Tire with the Competition
> > > > > Sports Car Club on Sunday, thanks Chris.
> > > > >
> > > > > Finishing with a run of 100.219 I went to look
> > > at the index and see that
> > > > > the web information is ST = .829
> > > (http://www.sfrscca.org/solo2/PAX.html)
> > > > > and as of last event of '99 (Slush Round 5) we
> > > were using ST = Index:
> > > > > 0.812
> > > > >
> > >
> > (http://www.sfrscca.org/solo2/Results/1999/Slush/round5.html#sto).
> > > > >
> > > > > If I read the note below (Lloyd Loring July 9,
> > > 1999) correctly, Street
> > > > > Touring as implemented in SFR last year ('99
> > > National recommendations ST
> > > > > = Street Touring on street tires) we could of
> > > indexed at .789 vs. .829
> > > > > where we began '99 or .812 ('99 STR -Street
> > > Touring on DOT-Rs), the
> > > > > index we finished the year with.
> > > > >
> > > > > If we're using Lloyd's '99 index to begin the
> > > season looks like I'd use
> > > > > the .812 index to figure out my Street Tire
> > > "class time".
> > > > >
> > > > > Does that make sense?
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks,
> > > > >
> > > > > Barry - # 40 SFR SCCA Solo2 Street Touring
> > > Nissan Maxima
> > > > >
> > >
> > http://streettouring.homepage.com/st_drivers/b_chaffin/barry_1.jpg
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > >
> > > > > Subject: Fwd: 1999 PAX Street Touring Index
> > > > > Date: Thu, 15 Jul 1999 19:10:31 +0000 (GMT)
> > > > > From: Phil Esra <pesra@yahoo.com>
> > > > > To: ba-autox@autox.team.net,
> > > mark.watson@schwab.com
> > > > >
> > > > > I Don't think this info made it to the bay area
> > > list...
> > > > >
> > > > > phil
> > > > >
> > > > > --- Lloyd Loring <lloydl@skyenet.net> wrote:
> > > > > > Date: Fri, 9 Jul 1999 09:25:47 -0500
> > > > > > To: autox@autox.team.net
> > > > > > From: Lloyd Loring <lloydl@skyenet.net>
> > > > > > Subject: 1999 PAX Street Touring Index
> > > > > > Reply-to: Lloyd Loring <lloydl@skyenet.net>
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Dave Beck has asked me to post these indexes
> > > to team.net.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > 1999 PAX Street Touring Index
> > > > > > ST .789
> > > > > > STR .812
> > > > > > STU .825
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Here's the complete set of PAX Indexes:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > 1999 PAX INDEX
> > > > > >
> > > > > > SS .830
> > > > > > AS .815 ASP .852 AP .871 AM 1.000
> > > > > > BS .811 BSP .846 BP .874 BM .955
> > > > > > CS .802 CSP .844 CP .857 CM .925
> > > > > > DS .800 DSP .820 DP .853 DM .900
> > > > > > ES .786 ESP .822 EP .872 EM .909
> > > > > > FS .807 ST .789 FM .904
> > > > > > GS .788 STR .812 F125 .950
> > > > > > HS .785 STU .825
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Lloyd Loring <lloydl@skyenet.net>
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > >
> > _________________________________________________________
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