rodbean@earthlink.net wrote:
> >
> >
> > From: "Richard Clifton" <Richard.Clifton@bigfoot.com>
> > Subject: Re: M100 Validation
> > Date: Sun, 10 Oct 1999 02:32:59 +0100
> > MIME-Version: 1.0
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> > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> > References: <85256804.0080A6D4.00@aamta02.avid.com>
><199910100009.RAA17156@lists1.best.com>
> >
> > Rodney, Old Bean
>
> Hello Richard,
>
> My name isn't Rodney. I am, however, an old Bean.
>
> Steve will probably admit to this... for sport, he likes to say increasingly
>outrageous
> things, particularly concerning M100s and fwd until one of us who don't care
>for (I'll be
> kind) fwd bite at the bait. Over a few years now, I have had many serious,
>and some humorous,
> long conversations with him, and other M100 lovers about the real merits,
>lack of merits and
> personal preferences involved of the cars. Tony Clark does a great job of
>defending the faith
> (all, though it may not always seem so, in a light hearted manner), he and
>Steve have regular
> competitions of this sort and it's great fun for those of us who just read
>(usually).
>
> This particular discussion began because Steve decided it was time to insult
>(tongue in cheek,
> I hope) those of us on the Chapman-era mailing list because we like early
>Lotuses in the
> original tradition and don't like fwd. I guess the conversations on the
>lotus-cars list had
> gotten a little dull and Steve wanted to liven things up a bit. But, to
>Steve's delight, I'm
> sure, the subject quickly became the M100 and its worthiness to have a Lotus
>badge (or
> especially, an Elan badge). We had been minding our own business, you
>understand.... not
> harassing you fwd people or anything... but here we go again.
>
> CitroMike lives in San Diego, has an M100 as well as a real Elan. He likes
>both but, I think,
> has a reasonable view of what they both are, and aren't. He was kind enough
>to allow me to
> drive his M100 at Willow Springs Raceway during a "touring session" (full
>speed not allowed
> but we went somewhat quickly in spots). Steve Brightman was also there and
>rode a bit as
> well. I was there because I instruct competition driving and would be have
>access to the
> track that weekend. I'd have driven it at full speed in one of the other
>sessions but roll
> bars were required for open cars and Mike's was not so equipped.
>
> My Lotuses have included several Lotus Cortinas, two Europas, a Seven and an
>Elite and I have
> had many Elans (currently have four). I have had many sports cars of various
>types including
> a TR2, a Spitfire, two Porsches (one a Speedster when they were inexpensive)
>I have
> successfully raced an Elan and a Europa in SCCA and vintage as well as other
>cars. Before
> that I won several year-end slalom (autocross, if you prefer) championships
>in various cars
> but mostly Elans and Lotus Cortinas, including something like 70 top times
>regardless of
> class.
>
> During the course of driving instruction, I have had the pleasure of driving
>many exotic high
> performance sports cars at speed on race tracks. I've even got some go-fast
>credits in fwd
> cars! And I actually owned a fwd car once (my lifetime allotment, I think).
>The point is,
> although I hate fwd, I don't need rwd to go fast and I'm well aware of fwd
>techniques.
>
> >
> >
> > You seem to have forgotten the thousands of us Lotus Enthusiasts who are
> > lucky enough to own a normal Lotus AND one of the new-fangled sort. My
> > first was a Seven, my second a 1967 Elan, my third a 1990 Elan, my fourth a
> > 1969 Europa S2, my fifth a 1973 Europa TC and my sixth a 1967 +2. I still
> > have four of these six and would hate to give any of them up.
> > My wife has a Honda (1998 Civic 1.8 VTiS) and I would hate to think what it
> > will be like
> > in eight years time. Its a bloody good car but not a patch on a new Elan.
>
> I haven't forgotten the handful of people who have an M100 and also older
>Lotuses. I may not
> understand them but I don't begrudge them their preferences either. I'm sure
>they have their
> reasons.
>
> >
> > As to whether the new Elan is a real Lotus or not, perhaps the best people
> > qualified to answer are those that have got real experience of driving front
> > wheel drive and rear wheel drive and front engined and mid engined Lotus.
>
> I have extensive experience driving front engine rwd, fwd and mid-engined
>cars, including
> Lotuses. I think I'm qualified to comment about their handling. What made
>you think I
> wasn't?
>
> >
> > You have driven a new Elan on the race track and were not impressed. You
> > are a hard man to please.
>
> Actually, I was impressed. The M100 was the best handling fwd car I'd ever
>driven. But fwd
> feels like fwd, no matter how many tricks are incorporated into the
>suspension design.
>
> I liked the effect of the M100-unique isolated, calibrated bushings. The car
>does actually
> turn in very well initially. In a long turn, there is a return to typical
>fwd understeer
> (perhaps as the bushings have reached the limits of their travel) and in
>tight turns, the car
> tends toward understeer in the normal fwd fashion.
>
> So I was impressed with the M100 among other fwd cars and am quite willing to
>say so. The
> characteristics of fwd can, I'm sure, be mitigated to some extent by driving
>technique due to
> the car's unique suspension and chassis design. I wasn't able to drive the
>car that way
> because it would have been inappropriate in that particular session but I can
>see where one
> could indeed go quite fast.
>
> But there is no comparison with a balanced rwd car such as an Elan (assuming
>equal power)....
> absolutely none.
>
> > Maybe if the car had slithered off backwards into
> > the tyre wall you would have been happier. I have also driven my new Elan
> > on the track (at Donington Park) (and my 67 Elan and my Europa TC) and I
> > have to say I was chuffin' impressed. So was Perry McCarthy who also drove
> > my car.
>
> Well, I'm sorry you couldn't handle the Elan and Europa. That will have to
>be put down to
> something beyond the cars' ability. I don't mean this to be insulting but
>some folks really
> do need fwd. It is quite predictable.
>
> > The 67 Elan lost its brakes after three laps and started
> > overheating, the Europa shagged its water pump and the distributor body
> > broke but the new Elan went on and on all day and I only had to stop when I
> > thought I would get pulled on the way home for illegal tyres.
>
> All of which reminds us that we're talking about a newish car vs. a couple of
>old ones, not
> maintained well enough, I guess.
>
> >
> > So, the fact that there is no comparison or similarity with the rear wheel
> > drive cars is in fact true. The new Elan is very reliable, the others are
> > not.
>
> See above.
>
> > In all other respects the new Elan is entirely deserving of the Lotus
> > name and, knowing Chapman as I did (ie. not at all), I would say that he
> > will probably be revolving in his grave at the thought of a superb
> > innovative Lotus design failing and most of his supposed followers not quite
> > getting the point.
>
> Again, what M100s are called by the factory is up to the factory. They're
>not Elans to me.
> The reasons should be obvious. As for what Chapman would have thought, or
>intended, I suspect
> that he wouldn't have cared, as long as money was being made.
>
> I do consider the M100 suspension design to be innovative and worthy of
>merit. To get a fwd
> car to handle that well was quite an achievement. But the much less
>expensive Mazda Miata is
> still a more satisfying car in which to go fast..... at least for many of us.
>
> >
> >
> > I don't know whether you would count me as an Old time Lotus Enthusiast or
> > not but as an owner for twenty years I must be close.
>
> Well, it's all a matter of perspective. I bought my first Lotus over thirty
>years ago. I
> still have one I bought in 1975. Still, after twenty years of your own Lotus
>enthusiasm, it's
> a shame the original magic has apparently escaped to the point where you've
>gone fwd. I don't
> understand but then, we're all different, aren't we?
>
> Now tell Steve to stop it! :-)
>
> R. B. (that would be Roderick but you can call me Rod)
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