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Thanks to all for the information. It seems very well possible to find a mo=
torcycle oil for the TR overdrive (dog)box and get some advantage of modern=
synthetic engine oil, without the risk to ruin something. Besides, when so=
mething in a TR gearbox (with straight cut gears) goes wrong, mostly it is =
a needle bearing of the layshaft, or a consequence of that. The gears and t=
he overdrive seem to be very strong. I think I will try the Amsoil 20W-50 V=
Twin or the Mobil 1 5W-50, both synthetic oils that probably have very goo=
d shear capacities. When I get some experience, good or bad, I will let it =
know in the fot forum.=20
Marcel=20
Van: "Duncan Charlton" <duncan.charlton54@gmail.com>=20
Aan: "fot" <fot@autox.team.net>, "van mulders marcel" <van.mulders.marcel@t=
elenet.be>=20
Verzonden: Maandag 17 december 2018 13:36:25=20
Onderwerp: Re: [Fot] bike engine oil for overdrive gearbox?=20
Does the wet clutch material in a motorcycle resemble the wet clutch materi=
al in the overdrive unit?=20
Duncan=20
On Dec 17, 2018, at 2:07 AM, [ mailto:van.mulders.marcel@telenet.be | van.m=
ulders.marcel@telenet.be ] wrote:=20
Duncan, the gearbox in my racecar (TR4A) is a dogbox, so without synchromes=
h rings, and I suppose you can compare it to a bike gearbox when considerin=
g what oil can be used.=20
Marcel=20
Van: "fot" < [ mailto:fot@autox.team.net | fot@autox.team.net ] >=20
Aan: "fot" < [ mailto:fot@autox.team.net | fot@autox.team.net ] >=20
Verzonden: Zondag 16 december 2018 23:05:36=20
Onderwerp: Re: [Fot] bike engine oil for overdrive gearbox?=20
Don=E2=80=99t most motorcycles that share oil between the engine and gearbo=
x use dog gear engagement? The label on the Honda synthetic motorcycle oil =
I have been using in my NSU 1200 engine (practically a motorcycle engine an=
yhow) touts its favorable effect on dog gears. Of course, that left me wond=
ering what its effect on synchromesh would be, so I wondered whether it wou=
ld be appropriate for my Mini Cooper S race engine/gearbox combo.=20
I have have heard good things about Redline Shock Proof Gear Oil=E2=80=99s =
ability to keep gearbox temperatures down: [ https://www.redlineoil.com/sho=
ckproof-gear-oils | https://www.redlineoil.com/shockproof-gear-oils ] . The=
literature suggests that it creates less drag compared to other oils of th=
e same viscosity rating. I use it in the gearbox of the NSU racer but have =
made no attempt to measure how hot it gets with any type of oil.=20
Duncan=20
Ps: I=E2=80=99ve been using 30 weight non-detergent oil in the Moss gearbox=
in my Morgan but that=E2=80=99s an unusual gearbox with rather balky steel=
synchro materials. The redline product I tried gave about the same shift f=
eel but the synchromesh oil (AC Delco 10-4014) gave a slight improvement in=
feel and synchro action.=20
BQ_BEGIN
On Sun, Dec 16, 2018 at 9:25 AM van.mulders.marcel--- via Fot < [ mailto:fo=
t@autox.team.net | fot@autox.team.net ] > wrote:=20
BQ_BEGIN
Like most TR racers I believe that an overdrive gearbox is worth some lapti=
me on most racetracks. But there are some drawbacks :9.5kgs weight penalty =
and the gap between 4th gear and 4th overdrive gear is too big. There is al=
so a considerable amount of power loss when the overdrive is engaged becaus=
e of the friction in the overdrive gears : but I think that in general mode=
rn engine oil can reduce the friction in the overdrive, compared to GL-4 ge=
ar oil, because it has much better friction modifiers. But are these fricti=
on modifiers compatible with the clutch in the overdrive?? Classic Mini's a=
nd most bikes have 1 oil pan for both engine and gearbox : what about using=
a modern bike oil or a modern (synthetic) classic mini oil in an overdrive=
gearbox to reduce the friction in the overdrive and gain some acceleration=
when 4th overdrive gear is engaged?=20
Marcel=20
_______________________________________________=20
[ mailto:fot@autox.team.net | fot@autox.team.net ]=20
[ http://www.fot-racing.com/ | http://www.fot-racing.com ]=20
]=20
Archive: [ http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot | http://www.team.net/pipermai=
l/fot ]=20
gmail.com | http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/kaskastner@gmail.com =
]=20
_______________________________________________=20
[ mailto:fot@autox.team.net | fot@autox.team.net ]=20
[ http://www.fot-racing.com/ | http://www.fot-racing.com ]=20
Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot=20
on54@gmail.com=20
BQ_END
_______________________________________________=20
[ mailto:fot@autox.team.net | fot@autox.team.net ]=20
http://www.fot-racing.com=20
Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot=20
arcel@telenet.be=20
BQ_END
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<html><body><div style=3D"font-family: Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-seri=
f; font-size: 10pt; color: #000000"><div>Thanks to all for the information.=
It seems very well possible to find a motorcycle oil for the TR overdrive =
(dog)box and get some advantage of modern synthetic engine oil, without the=
risk to ruin something. Besides, when something in a TR gearbox (with stra=
ight cut gears) goes wrong, mostly it is a needle bearing of the lays=
haft, or a consequence of that. The gears and the overdrive seem to b=
e very strong. I think I will try the Amsoil 20W-50 V Twin or the Mobil 1 5=
W-50, both synthetic oils that probably have very good shear capacities. Wh=
en I get some experience, good or bad, I will let it know in the fot forum.=
</div><div>Marcel</div><div><br></div><hr id=3D"zwchr" data-marker=3D"__DIV=
IDER__"><div data-marker=3D"__HEADERS__"><b>Van: </b>"Duncan Charlton" <=
duncan.charlton54@gmail.com><br><b>Aan: </b>"fot" <fot@autox.team.net=
>, "van mulders marcel" <van.mulders.marcel@telenet.be><br><b>Verz=
onden: </b>Maandag 17 december 2018 13:36:25<br><b>Onderwerp: </b>Re: [Fot]=
bike engine oil for overdrive gearbox?<br></div><br><div data-marker=3D"__=
QUOTED_TEXT__">Does the wet clutch material in a motorcycle resemble the we=
t clutch material in the overdrive unit?<div class=3D""><br class=3D""></di=
v><div class=3D"">Duncan<br class=3D""><div><br class=3D""><blockquote clas=
s=3D""><div class=3D"">On Dec 17, 2018, at 2:07 AM, <a href=3D"mailto:van.m=
ulders.marcel@telenet.be" class=3D"" target=3D"_blank">van.mulders.marcel@t=
elenet.be</a> wrote:</div><br class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><div clas=
s=3D""><div class=3D""><div style=3D"font-family: Verdana, Arial, Helvetica=
, sans-serif; font-size: 10pt;" class=3D""><div class=3D"">Duncan, the gear=
box in my racecar (TR4A) is a dogbox, so without synchromesh rings, a=
nd I suppose you can compare it to a bike gearbox when considering what oil=
can be used.</div><div class=3D"">Marcel</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D=
""></div><hr id=3D"zwchr" class=3D""><div class=3D""><b class=3D"">Van: </b=
>"fot" <<a href=3D"mailto:fot@autox.team.net"; class=3D"" target=3D"_blan=
k">fot@autox.team.net</a>><br class=3D""><b class=3D"">Aan: </b>"fot" &l=
t;<a href=3D"mailto:fot@autox.team.net"; class=3D"" target=3D"_blank">fot@au=
tox.team.net</a>><br class=3D""><b class=3D"">Verzonden: </b>Zondag 16 d=
ecember 2018 23:05:36<br class=3D""><b class=3D"">Onderwerp: </b>Re: [Fot] =
bike engine oil for overdrive gearbox?<br class=3D""></div><br class=3D""><=
div class=3D"">Don=E2=80=99t most motorcycles that share oil between the en=
gine and gearbox use dog gear engagement? The label on the Honda synt=
hetic motorcycle oil I have been using in my NSU 1200 engine (practically a=
motorcycle engine anyhow) touts its favorable effect on dog gears. O=
f course, that left me wondering what its effect on synchromesh would be, s=
o I wondered whether it would be appropriate for my Mini Cooper S race engi=
ne/gearbox combo.<div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">I hav=
e have heard good things about Redline Shock Proof Gear Oil=E2=80=99s abili=
ty to keep gearbox temperatures down: <a href=3D"https://www.redlineoi=
l.com/shockproof-gear-oils" class=3D"" target=3D"_blank">https://www.redlin=
eoil.com/shockproof-gear-oils</a> . The literature suggests that=
it creates less drag compared to other oils of the same viscosity rating. =
I use it in the gearbox of the NSU racer but have made no attempt to =
measure how hot it gets with any type of oil.</div><div class=3D""><br clas=
s=3D""></div><div class=3D"">Duncan</div><div class=3D"">Ps: I=E2=80=
=99ve been using 30 weight non-detergent oil in the Moss gearbox in my Morg=
an but that=E2=80=99s an unusual gearbox with rather balky steel synchro ma=
terials. The redline product I tried gave about the same shift feel b=
ut the synchromesh oil (AC Delco 10-4014) gave a slight improvement in feel=
and synchro action. </div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D""><br class=3D""><div class=3D""><blockquote class=3D""><div class=
=3D""><span style=3D"font-family: Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; fo=
nt-size: 10pt;" class=3D"">On Sun, Dec 16, 2018 at 9:25 AM van.mulders.marc=
el--- via Fot <</span><a href=3D"mailto:fot@autox.team.net"; target=3D"_b=
lank" class=3D"" style=3D"font-family: Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-seri=
f; font-size: 10pt;">fot@autox.team.net</a><span style=3D"font-family: Verd=
ana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 10pt;" class=3D"">> wrote:=
</span></div><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div style=3D"font-family: Ver=
dana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 10pt;" class=3D""><div class=
=3D""><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D=
"margin: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid #cccccc; padding-left: 1=
ex;"><div class=3D""><div style=3D"font-family: Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, =
sans-serif; font-size: 10pt;" class=3D""><div class=3D"">Like most TR racer=
s I believe that an overdrive gearbox is worth some laptime on most racetra=
cks. But there are some drawbacks :9.5kgs weight penalty and the gap betwee=
n 4th gear and 4th overdrive gear is too big. There is also a considerable =
amount of power loss when the overdrive is engaged because of the friction =
in the overdrive gears : but I think that in general modern engine oil can =
reduce the friction in the overdrive, compared to GL-4 gear oil, because it=
has much better friction modifiers. But are these friction modifiers compa=
tible with the clutch in the overdrive?? Classic Mini's and most bikes have=
1 oil pan for both engine and gearbox : what about using a modern bike oil=
or a modern (synthetic) classic mini oil in an overdrive gearbox to reduce=
the friction in the overdrive and gain some acceleration when 4th overdriv=
e gear is engaged?</div><div class=3D"">Marcel</div></div></div>___________=
____________________________________<br class=3D"">
<a href=3D"mailto:fot@autox.team.net"; target=3D"_blank" class=3D"">fot@auto=
x.team.net</a><br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
<a href=3D"http://www.fot-racing.com/"; rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank"=
class=3D"">http://www.fot-racing.com</a><br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
et=3D"_blank" class=3D"">http://www.team.net/donate.html</a><br class=3D"">
Archive: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot"; rel=3D"noreferrer" t=
arget=3D"_blank" class=3D"">http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot</a><br class=
=3D"">
skastner@gmail.com" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank" class=3D"">http://=
autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/kaskastner@gmail.com</a><br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
</blockquote></div><br class=3D""></div></div></div>_______________________=
________________________<br class=3D""><a href=3D"mailto:fot@autox.team.net=
" class=3D"" target=3D"_blank">fot@autox.team.net</a><br class=3D""><br cla=
ss=3D""><a href=3D"http://www.fot-racing.com"; class=3D"" target=3D"_blank">=
http://www.fot-racing.com</a><br class=3D""><br class=3D"">Donate: http://w=
ww.team.net/donate.html<br class=3D"">Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermai=
l/fot<br class=3D"">Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/optio=
ns/fot/duncan.charlton54@gmail.com<br class=3D""><br class=3D""><br class=
=3D""></div></blockquote></div><br class=3D""></div><br class=3D"">________=
_______________________________________<br class=3D""><a href=3D"mailto:fot=
@autox.team.net" class=3D"" target=3D"_blank">fot@autox.team.net</a><br cla=
ss=3D""><br class=3D"">http://www.fot-racing.com<br class=3D""><br class=3D=
"">Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html<br class=3D"">Archive: http://ww=
w.team.net/pipermail/fot<br class=3D"">Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.tea=
m.net/mailman/options/fot/van.mulders.marcel@telenet.be<br class=3D""></div=
></div></div></div></blockquote></div><br class=3D""></div><br></div></div>=
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fot@autox.team.net
http://www.fot-racing.com
Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot
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