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Fun part is that Porterfield sends you the metric Datsun 240Z pad for the 16=
P caliper that you then have to machine to fit the pin locations.
Went round and round with them...they weren=E2=80=99t listening...
Brad Eells
Sent from my iPhone
> On Jul 24, 2019, at 9:19 PM, DAVE HOGYE via Fot <fot@autox.team.net> wrote=
:
>=20
> I tried Porterfeild for the first time after I discovered problems with Ca=
rbotech and was further disappointed in what they sent me. The friction pad=
surface was hanging "at least" 1/8" over the outer edge of the rotor. I co=
uld not believe it. I sent them back. I took photos and video to document m=
y discoveries with all these pads and I would happily share them. When I lo=
cate the Porterfield photo, I will share it. Of course Porterfield would co=
rrect this if I send them details of my findings, but... I cannot believe t=
he total BS learning experience I have been faced with. I simply cannot bel=
ieve that these companies ship these inferior products. Hawk has been the o=
nly company that has sent me the exact same product that fits every time.
>=20
> TOTAL BS.
>=20
> Dave H.
>=20
>> On July 24, 2019 at 2:41 PM Phil Gott <vfracing@aol.com> wrote:=20
>>=20
>> I=E2=80=99ve been using Porterfield R4 with good results. Easy to modulat=
e, work reasonably well when cold (safe pace lap) and last about 5-6 events w=
ith squaring every two races.=20
>>=20
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>=20
>>> On Jul 24, 2019, at 4:22 PM, < timmmurphh@gmail.com> < timmmurphh@gmail.=
com> wrote:=20
>>>=20
>>> Maybe that explains the high wear rate that we are seeing lately on the C=
arbotech CT2-XP10 brake pads we are using. We used to get almost 4 or 5 rac=
e weekends out of a set of pads. Now it=E2=80=99s like one and half race we=
ekends. What is the wear rate for others that are using this pad?
>>>=20
>>> =20
>>>=20
>>> Maybe I will have to go back to the Hawk HB-169E.560 Blue/9012 compound b=
rake pads that we were using. Anyone have other suggestions? We like the s=
topping power, fast warm up and feel of the Carbotech pads but the wear is g=
etting a little pricey at about $200 a set.
>>>=20
>>> =20
>>>=20
>>> Tim and Ryan Murphy
>>>=20
>>> #317 TR4 BRG
>>>=20
>>> =20
>>>=20
>>> From: Fot <fot-bounces@autox.team.net> On Behalf Of DAVE HOGYE via Fot
>>> Sent: Sunday, July 21, 2019 11:11 PM
>>> To: Phil Gott <vfracing@aol.com>; Phil Gott via Fot <fot@autox.team.net>=
; ralph hansen <quikrx@yahoo.com>
>>> Subject: Re: [Fot] squaring pads
>>>=20
>>> =20
>>>=20
>>> The more clearance between the slot in the caliper and the pad backing p=
late the quicker this becomes a problem. I've measured .010-.012" total cl=
earance on an NOS street pad and as much as .070" on a set of Carbotech pads=
. The edges of the Carbotech backing plates looked to have been, (were defi=
nitely), ground off on and belt sander or grinder from the factory, right do=
wn to the edge of the friction pad and they were out of square by .035". Th=
e side of the pad was making contact with the caliper slot. This immediatel=
y caused problems with the caliper pistons cocking severely. The pistons ev=
en left a witness mark in the bore of the calipers. Not good. The Carbotec=
h pads had .070" wear diagonally across the friction surface in a couple of w=
eekends of racing. Unfortunately, Carbotech made many excuses and denials w=
hen I brought this to their attention. =20
>>>=20
>>> If the pad backing plate is held close in the slot, the piston cannot ge=
t cocked as severely under hard braking. Squaring of pad surface may still b=
e desirable at some point, but pay close attention between of the width of t=
he backing plate and the caliper slot. =20
>>>=20
>>> I have found Hawk pads to be made with as close a clearance as factory p=
ads and the same dimension on every order. No variations. The Hawk pads al=
so have the same shape as factory pads, more like a pie cut. Wider at the o=
uter edge. This helps compensates for rotor surface speed and reduces uneve=
n wear.=20
>>>=20
>>> I do like the feel of the Carbotechs, but I cannot rely on their quality=
control.
>>>=20
>>> As you apply the brakes, the piston extends. If the pad can move greatl=
y within the caliper slot, the piston with take the side load, not the backi=
ng plate of the pad as it should. If the backing plate is not square, the p=
ad will also rotate a little. Definitely not good.
>>>=20
>>> Beware,
>>>=20
>>> Dave H.
>>>=20
>>> =20
>>>=20
>>> On July 21, 2019 at 12:27 PM Phil Gott via Fot <fot@autox.team.net> wrot=
e:=20
>>>=20
>>> The pads wear unevenly both radially and a bit circumferentially due to d=
ifferent surface speeds and friction forces. As the pads wear unevenly they =E2=
=80=9Ccock=E2=80=9D in the caliper and bind up. The more wear, the greater t=
he binding.=20
>>>=20
>>> Using some sort of a device (surface grinder, drill press etc with a goo=
d dust collector and mask for the operator) to make the face of the friction=
material parallel to the backing plate solves this issue.
>>>=20
>>> Yes, this does change the surface of the pad presented to the rotor. I d=
o not change rotors as they are in good shape. Any small to microscopic irre=
gularities between the two quickly get dealt with during the first session o=
ut after squaring the pads. This would be the same as putting new pads on th=
e car with the old rotors. Just treat the first few laps as if you are beddi=
ng in new brakes, which to some extent you are (except for temperature effec=
ts).
>>>=20
>>> Different from a street machine where rust and grit take their toll in t=
he rotor surface.
>>>=20
>>> Phil Gott
>>>=20
>>> 114 TR4A
>>>=20
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>> On Jul 21, 2019, at 10:33 AM, ralph hansen via Fot < fot@autox.team.net>=
wrote:
>>>=20
>>> =20
>>>=20
>>> =20
>>>=20
>>> not to rain on the parade but, are you turning the rotors each time to m=
ake sure they are square also? if not, you now have unmatched surfaces - in t=
he old days with good metal rotors I could see a slight advantage, these day=
s with the good pads we get, and soft rotors they wear together, you might a=
ctually get a very slight increase in surface contact due to the angles and d=
angles - and, as you machine the rotors you lose mass, the all important hea=
t sink that makes brakes work....
>>>=20
>>> =20
>>>=20
>>> =20
>>>=20
>>> On Saturday, July 20, 2019, 07:19:46 PM CDT, Mathieu W. Huovinen via Fot=
< fot@autox.team.net> wrote:
>>>=20
>>> =20
>>>=20
>>> =20
>>>=20
>>> =20
>>>=20
>>> Squaring up the pads? Please tell me more, I'm still learning. Thanks!
>>>=20
>>> -Marhieu
>>>=20
>>> =20
>>>=20
>>> _______________________________________________=20
>>> fot@autox.team.net=20
>>>=20
>>> http://www.fot-racing.com=20
>>>=20
>>> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html=20
>>> Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot=
=20
>>> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/quikrx@yah=
oo.com=20
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> fot@autox.team.net=20
>>>=20
>>> http://www.fot-racing.com=20
>>>=20
>>> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html=20
>>> Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot=
=20
>>> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/vfracing@a=
ol.com=20
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>> =20
>>>=20
>>> _______________________________________________=20
>>> fot@autox.team.net=20
>>>=20
>>> http://www.fot-racing.com=20
>>>=20
>>> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html=20
>>> Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot=
=20
>>> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/dlhogye@co=
mcast.net=20
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>> =20
>>>=20
>=20
> =20
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> fot@autox.team.net
>=20
> http://www.fot-racing.com
>=20
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot
> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/tr4abrad@gma=
il.com
>=20
>=20
--Apple-Mail-DD0CDD41-27DB-4682-81BA-65109317B4B6
charset=utf-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"content-type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3D=
utf-8"></head><body dir=3D"auto">Fun part is that Porterfield sends you the m=
etric Datsun 240Z pad for the 16P caliper that you then have to machine to f=
it the pin locations.<div><br></div><div>Went round and round with them...th=
ey weren=E2=80=99t listening...<br><br><div id=3D"AppleMailSignature" dir=3D=
"ltr">Brad Eells<div>Sent from my iPhone</div></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br>On J=
ul 24, 2019, at 9:19 PM, DAVE HOGYE via Fot <<a href=3D"mailto:fot@autox.=
team.net">fot@autox.team.net</a>> wrote:<br><br></div><blockquote type=3D=
"cite"><div dir=3D"ltr">
<meta charset=3D"UTF-8">
<p style=3D"font-size: 12pt; font-family: helvetica, arial, sans-serif; colo=
r: rgb(51, 51, 51);">I tried Porterfeild for the first time after I discover=
ed problems with Carbotech and was further disappointed in what they sent me=
. The friction pad surface was hanging "at least" 1/8" over the outer e=
dge of the rotor. I could not believe it. I sent them back. =
; I took photos and video to document my discoveries with all these pads and=
I would happily share them. When I locate the Porterfield photo, I wi=
ll share it. Of course Porterfield would correct this if I send them d=
etails of my findings, but... I cannot believe the total BS learning e=
xperience I have been faced with. I simply cannot believe that these c=
ompanies ship these inferior products. Hawk has been the only company t=
hat has sent me the exact same product that fits every time.</p><p style=3D"=
font-size: 12pt; font-family: helvetica, arial, sans-serif; color: rgb(51, 5=
1, 51);">TOTAL BS.</p><p style=3D"font-size: 12pt; font-family: helvetica, a=
rial, sans-serif; color: rgb(51, 51, 51);">Dave H.</p><blockquote type=3D"ci=
te">On July 24, 2019 at 2:41 PM Phil Gott <<a href=3D"mailto:vfracing@aol=
.com">vfracing@aol.com</a>> wrote: <br> <br>I=E2=80=99ve been using Porte=
rfield R4 with good results. Easy to modulate, work reasonably well when col=
d (safe pace lap) and last about 5-6 events with squaring every two races. <=
br> <br><div id=3D"ox-f2c81da09d-AppleMailSignature" dir=3D"ltr">Sent from m=
y iPhone</div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br>On Jul 24, 2019, at 4:22 PM, < <a href=
=3D"mailto:timmmurphh@gmail.com";>timmmurphh@gmail.com</a>> < <a href=3D=
"mailto:timmmurphh@gmail.com";>timmmurphh@gmail.com</a>> wrote: <br> <br><=
/div><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"ox-f2c81da09d-=
WordSection1"><p class=3D"ox-f2c81da09d-MsoNormal">Maybe that explains the h=
igh wear rate that we are seeing lately on the Carbotech CT2-XP10 brake pads=
we are using. We used to get almost 4 or 5 race weekends out of a set=
of pads. Now it=E2=80=99s like one and half race weekends. What=
is the wear rate for others that are using this pad?</p><p class=3D"ox-f2c8=
1da09d-MsoNormal"> </p><p class=3D"ox-f2c81da09d-MsoNormal">Maybe I wil=
l have to go back to the Hawk HB-169E.560 Blue/9012 compound brake pads that=
we were using. Anyone have other suggestions? We like the stopp=
ing power, fast warm up and feel of the Carbotech pads but the wear is getti=
ng a little pricey at about $200 a set.</p><p class=3D"ox-f2c81da09d-MsoNorm=
al"> </p><p class=3D"ox-f2c81da09d-MsoNormal">Tim and Ryan Murphy</p><p=
class=3D"ox-f2c81da09d-MsoNormal">#317 TR4 BRG</p><p class=3D"ox-f2c81da09d=
-MsoNormal"> </p><div><div style=3D"border: none; border-top: solid #E1=
E1E1 1.0pt; padding: 3.0pt 0in 0in 0in;"><p class=3D"ox-f2c81da09d-MsoNormal=
"><strong>From:</strong> Fot <<a href=3D"mailto:fot-bounces@autox.team.ne=
t">fot-bounces@autox.team.net</a>> <strong>On Behalf Of </strong>DAVE HOG=
YE via Fot<br><strong>Sent:</strong> Sunday, July 21, 2019 11:11 PM<br><stro=
ng>To:</strong> Phil Gott <<a href=3D"mailto:vfracing@aol.com";>vfracing@a=
ol.com</a>>; Phil Gott via Fot <<a href=3D"mailto:fot@autox.team.net";>=
fot@autox.team.net</a>>; ralph hansen <<a href=3D"mailto:quikrx@yahoo.=
com">quikrx@yahoo.com</a>><br><strong>Subject:</strong> Re: [Fot] squarin=
g pads</p></div></div><p class=3D"ox-f2c81da09d-MsoNormal"> </p><p><spa=
n style=3D"font-size: 12.0pt; font-family: 'Helvetica',sans-serif; color: #3=
33333;">The more clearance between the slot in the caliper and the pad backi=
ng plate the quicker this becomes a problem. I've measured .010-=
.012" total clearance on an NOS street pad and as much as .070" on a set of C=
arbotech pads. The edges of the Carbotech backing plates looked to hav=
e been, (were definitely), ground off on and belt sander or grinder from the=
factory, right down to the edge of the friction pad and they were out of sq=
uare by .035". The side of the pad was making contact with the caliper=
slot. This immediately caused problems with the caliper pistons cocki=
ng severely. The pistons even left a witness mark in the bore of the c=
alipers. Not good. The Carbotech pads had .070" wear diagonally a=
cross the friction surface in a couple of weekends of racing. Unfortun=
ately, Carbotech made many excuses and denials when I brought this to their a=
ttention. </span></p><p><span style=3D"font-size: 12.0pt; font-f=
amily: 'Helvetica',sans-serif; color: #333333;">If the pad backing plate is h=
eld close in the slot, the piston cannot get cocked as severely under hard b=
raking. Squaring of pad surface may still be desirable at some point, b=
ut pay close attention between of the width of the backing plate and the cal=
iper slot. </span></p><p><span style=3D"font-size: 12.0pt; font-=
family: 'Helvetica',sans-serif; color: #333333;">I have found Hawk pads to b=
e made with as close a clearance as factory pads and the same dimension on e=
very order. No variations. The Hawk pads also have the same shap=
e as factory pads, more like a pie cut. Wider at the outer edge. =
This helps compensates for rotor surface speed and reduces uneven wear.&nbs=
p; </span></p><p><span style=3D"font-size: 12.0pt; font-family: 'Helvetica',=
sans-serif; color: #333333;">I do like the feel of the Carbotechs, but I can=
not rely on their quality control. </span></p><p><span style=3D"font-size: 1=
2.0pt; font-family: 'Helvetica',sans-serif; color: #333333;">As you apply th=
e brakes, the piston extends. If the pad can move greatly within the c=
aliper slot, the piston with take the side load, not the backing plate of th=
e pad as it should. If the backing plate is not square, the pad will a=
lso rotate a little. Definitely not good. </span></p><p><span style=3D=
"font-size: 12.0pt; font-family: 'Helvetica',sans-serif; color: #333333;">Be=
ware, </span></p><p><span style=3D"font-size: 12.0pt; font-family: 'Helvetic=
a',sans-serif; color: #333333;">Dave H. </span></p><p><span style=3D"font-si=
ze: 12.0pt; font-family: 'Helvetica',sans-serif; color: #333333;"> </=
span></p><blockquote><p class=3D"ox-f2c81da09d-MsoNormal">On July 21, 2019 a=
t 12:27 PM Phil Gott via Fot <<a href=3D"mailto:fot@autox.team.net";>fot@a=
utox.team.net</a>> wrote: <br><br>The pads wear unevenly both radially an=
d a bit circumferentially due to different surface speeds and friction force=
s. As the pads wear unevenly they =E2=80=9Ccock=E2=80=9D in the caliper and b=
ind up. The more wear, the greater the binding. </p><div><p class=3D"ox=
-f2c81da09d-MsoNormal">Using some sort of a device (surface grinder, drill p=
ress etc with a good dust collector and mask for the operator) to make the f=
ace of the friction material parallel to the backing plate solves this issue=
.</p></div><div><p class=3D"ox-f2c81da09d-MsoNormal">Yes, this does change t=
he surface of the pad presented to the rotor. I do not change rotors as they=
are in good shape. Any small to microscopic irregularities between the two q=
uickly get dealt with during the first session out after squaring the pads. T=
his would be the same as putting new pads on the car with the old rotors. Ju=
st treat the first few laps as if you are bedding in new brakes, which to so=
me extent you are (except for temperature effects).</p></div><div><p class=3D=
"ox-f2c81da09d-MsoNormal">Different from a street machine where rust and gri=
t take their toll in the rotor surface.</p></div><div><p class=3D"ox-f2c81da=
09d-MsoNormal">Phil Gott</p></div><div><p class=3D"ox-f2c81da09d-MsoNormal" s=
tyle=3D"margin-bottom: 12.0pt;">114 TR4A</p><p class=3D"ox-f2c81da09d-MsoNor=
mal">Sent from my iPhone</p><div><p class=3D"ox-f2c81da09d-MsoNormal" style=3D=
"margin-bottom: 12.0pt;"><br>On Jul 21, 2019, at 10:33 AM, ralph hansen via =
Fot < <a href=3D"mailto:fot@autox.team.net";>fot@autox.team.net</a>> wr=
ote:</p></div><blockquote><div><div><p class=3D"ox-f2c81da09d-MsoNormal"><sp=
an style=3D"font-size: 10.0pt; font-family: 'Helvetica',sans-serif;"> <=
/span></p></div><div><p class=3D"ox-f2c81da09d-MsoNormal"><span style=3D"fon=
t-size: 10.0pt; font-family: 'Helvetica',sans-serif;"> </span></p></di=
v><div><p class=3D"ox-f2c81da09d-MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10.0pt=
; font-family: 'Helvetica',sans-serif;">not to rain on the parade but, are y=
ou turning the rotors each time to make sure they are square also? if not, y=
ou now have unmatched surfaces - in the old days with good metal rotors I co=
uld see a slight advantage, these days with the good pads we get, and soft r=
otors they wear together, you might actually get a very slight increase in s=
urface contact due to the angles and dangles - and, as you machine the rotor=
s you lose mass, the all important heat sink that makes brakes work.... </sp=
an></p></div><div><p class=3D"ox-f2c81da09d-MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-s=
ize: 10.0pt; font-family: 'Helvetica',sans-serif;"> </span></p></div>=
<div><p class=3D"ox-f2c81da09d-MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10.0pt; f=
ont-family: 'Helvetica',sans-serif;"> </span></p></div><div><div><p cl=
ass=3D"ox-f2c81da09d-MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10.0pt; font-famil=
y: 'Helvetica',sans-serif; color: #26282a;">On Saturday, July 20, 2019, 07:1=
9:46 PM CDT, Mathieu W. Huovinen via Fot < <a href=3D"mailto:fot@autox.te=
am.net">fot@autox.team.net</a>> wrote: </span></p></div><div><p class=3D"=
ox-f2c81da09d-MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10.0pt; font-family: 'Hel=
vetica',sans-serif; color: #26282a;"> </span></p></div><div><p class=3D=
"ox-f2c81da09d-MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10.0pt; font-family: 'He=
lvetica',sans-serif; color: #26282a;"> </span></p></div><div><p><span=
style=3D"font-size: 10.0pt; font-family: 'Helvetica',sans-serif; color: #26=
282a;"> </span></p><p><span style=3D"font-size: 10.0pt; font-family: '=
Helvetica',sans-serif; color: #26282a;">Squaring up the pads? Please tell me=
more, I'm still learning. Thanks! </span></p><p><span style=3D"font-size: 1=
0.0pt; font-family: 'Helvetica',sans-serif; color: #26282a;">-Marhieu </span=
></p><div><p class=3D"ox-f2c81da09d-MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10.=
0pt; font-family: 'Helvetica',sans-serif; color: #26282a;"> </span></p=
></div><p class=3D"ox-f2c81da09d-MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom: 12.0pt;"=
><span style=3D"font-size: 10.0pt; font-family: 'Helvetica',sans-serif; colo=
r: #26282a;">_______________________________________________ <br><a href=3D"=
mailto:fot@autox.team.net"; target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noopener">fot@autox.team=
.net</a> <br><br><a href=3D"http://www.fot-racing.com"; target=3D"_blank" rel=
=3D"noopener">http://www.fot-racing.com</a> <br><br>Donate: <a href=3D"http:=
//www.team.net/donate.html" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noopener">http://www.te=
am.net/donate.html</a> <br>Archive: <a href=3D"http://autox.team.net/archive=
" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noopener">http://autox.team.net/archive </a><a hr=
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a> <br><br> </span></p></div></div></div></blockquote><blockquote><div><p cl=
ass=3D"ox-f2c81da09d-MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom: 12.0pt;">___________=
____________________________________<br><a href=3D"mailto:fot@autox.team.net=
">fot@autox.team.net</a> <br><br><a href=3D"http://www.fot-racing.com";>http:=
//www.fot-racing.com</a> <br><br>Donate: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/dona=
te.html">http://www.team.net/donate.html</a> <br>Archive: <a href=3D"http://=
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cribe/Manage: <a href=3D"http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/vfracing@=
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<br></p></div></blockquote></div></blockquote><p class=3D"ox-f2c81da09d-defa=
ult-style"><span style=3D"font-size: 12.0pt; font-family: 'Helvetica',sans-s=
erif; color: #333333;"><br> </span></p><blockquote><p class=3D"ox-f2c8=
1da09d-MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom: 12.0pt;">_________________________=
______________________ <br><a href=3D"mailto:fot@autox.team.net";>fot@autox.t=
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