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I tried Porterfeild for the first time after I discovered problems with Car=
botech and was further disappointed in what they sent me. The friction pad=
surface was hanging "at least" 1/8" over the outer edge of the rotor. I c=
ould not believe it. I sent them back. I took photos and video to documen=
t my discoveries with all these pads and I would happily share them. When =
I locate the Porterfield photo, I will share it. Of course Porterfield wou=
ld correct this if I send them details of my findings, but... I cannot bel=
ieve the total BS learning experience I have been faced with. I simply can=
not believe that these companies ship these inferior products. Hawk has be=
en the only company that has sent me the exact same product that fits every=
time.
TOTAL BS.
Dave H.
> On July 24, 2019 at 2:41 PM Phil Gott <vfracing@aol.com> wrote:
>=20
> I=E2=80=99ve been using Porterfield R4 with good results. Easy to mod=
ulate, work reasonably well when cold (safe pace lap) and last about 5-6 ev=
ents with squaring every two races.
>=20
> Sent from my iPhone
>=20
> On Jul 24, 2019, at 4:22 PM, < timmmurphh@gmail.com mailto:timmmurphh=
@gmail.com > < timmmurphh@gmail.com mailto:timmmurphh@gmail.com > wrote:
>=20
>=20
> > >=20
> > Maybe that explains the high wear rate that we are seeing latel=
y on the Carbotech CT2-XP10 brake pads we are using. We used to get almost=
4 or 5 race weekends out of a set of pads. Now it=E2=80=99s like one and =
half race weekends. What is the wear rate for others that are using this p=
ad?
> >=20
> > =20
> >=20
> > Maybe I will have to go back to the Hawk HB-169E.560 Blue/9012 =
compound brake pads that we were using. Anyone have other suggestions? We=
like the stopping power, fast warm up and feel of the Carbotech pads but t=
he wear is getting a little pricey at about $200 a set.
> >=20
> > =20
> >=20
> > Tim and Ryan Murphy
> >=20
> > #317 TR4 BRG
> >=20
> > =20
> >=20
> > From: Fot <fot-bounces@autox.team.net mailto:fot-bounces@autox.=
team.net > On Behalf Of DAVE HOGYE via Fot
> > Sent: Sunday, July 21, 2019 11:11 PM
> > To: Phil Gott <vfracing@aol.com mailto:vfracing@aol.com >; Phil=
Gott via Fot <fot@autox.team.net mailto:fot@autox.team.net >; ralph hansen=
<quikrx@yahoo.com mailto:quikrx@yahoo.com >
> > Subject: Re: [Fot] squaring pads
> >=20
> > =20
> >=20
> > The more clearance between the slot in the caliper and the pad =
backing plate the quicker this becomes a problem. I've measured .010-.012=
" total clearance on an NOS street pad and as much as .070" on a set of Car=
botech pads. The edges of the Carbotech backing plates looked to have been=
, (were definitely), ground off on and belt sander or grinder from the fact=
ory, right down to the edge of the friction pad and they were out of square=
by .035". The side of the pad was making contact with the caliper slot. =
This immediately caused problems with the caliper pistons cocking severely.=
The pistons even left a witness mark in the bore of the calipers. Not go=
od. The Carbotech pads had .070" wear diagonally across the friction surfa=
ce in a couple of weekends of racing. Unfortunately, Carbotech made many e=
xcuses and denials when I brought this to their attention. =20
> >=20
> > If the pad backing plate is held close in the slot, the piston =
cannot get cocked as severely under hard braking. Squaring of pad surface =
may still be desirable at some point, but pay close attention between of th=
e width of the backing plate and the caliper slot. =20
> >=20
> > I have found Hawk pads to be made with as close a clearance as =
factory pads and the same dimension on every order. No variations. The Ha=
wk pads also have the same shape as factory pads, more like a pie cut. Wid=
er at the outer edge. This helps compensates for rotor surface speed and r=
educes uneven wear.=20
> >=20
> > I do like the feel of the Carbotechs, but I cannot rely on thei=
r quality control.
> >=20
> > As you apply the brakes, the piston extends. If the pad can mo=
ve greatly within the caliper slot, the piston with take the side load, not=
the backing plate of the pad as it should. If the backing plate is not sq=
uare, the pad will also rotate a little. Definitely not good.
> >=20
> > Beware,
> >=20
> > Dave H.
> >=20
> > =20
> >=20
> > > > >=20
> > > On July 21, 2019 at 12:27 PM Phil Gott via Fot <fot@autox=
.team.net mailto:fot@autox.team.net > wrote:
> > >=20
> > > The pads wear unevenly both radially and a bit circumfere=
ntially due to different surface speeds and friction forces. As the pads we=
ar unevenly they =E2=80=9Ccock=E2=80=9D in the caliper and bind up. The mor=
e wear, the greater the binding.=20
> > >=20
> > > Using some sort of a device (surface grinder, drill press=
etc with a good dust collector and mask for the operator) to make the face=
of the friction material parallel to the backing plate solves this issue.
> > >=20
> > > Yes, this does change the surface of the pad presented to=
the rotor. I do not change rotors as they are in good shape. Any small to =
microscopic irregularities between the two quickly get dealt with during th=
e first session out after squaring the pads. This would be the same as putt=
ing new pads on the car with the old rotors. Just treat the first few laps =
as if you are bedding in new brakes, which to some extent you are (except f=
or temperature effects).
> > >=20
> > > Different from a street machine where rust and grit take =
their toll in the rotor surface.
> > >=20
> > > Phil Gott
> > >=20
> > > 114 TR4A
> > >=20
> > > Sent from my iPhone
> > >=20
> > >=20
> > > On Jul 21, 2019, at 10:33 AM, ralph hansen via Fot < fot@=
autox.team.net mailto:fot@autox.team.net > wrote:
> > >=20
> > > > > > >=20
> > > > =20
> > > >=20
> > > > =20
> > > >=20
> > > > not to rain on the parade but, are you turning the =
rotors each time to make sure they are square also? if not, you now have un=
matched surfaces - in the old days with good metal rotors I could see a sli=
ght advantage, these days with the good pads we get, and soft rotors they w=
ear together, you might actually get a very slight increase in surface cont=
act due to the angles and dangles - and, as you machine the rotors you lose=
mass, the all important heat sink that makes brakes work....
> > > >=20
> > > > =20
> > > >=20
> > > > =20
> > > >=20
> > > > On Saturday, July 20, 2019, 07:19:46 PM CDT, Mathie=
u W. Huovinen via Fot < fot@autox.team.net mailto:fot@autox.team.net > wrot=
e:
> > > >=20
> > > > =20
> > > >=20
> > > > =20
> > > >=20
> > > > =20
> > > >=20
> > > > Squaring up the pads? Please tell me more, I'm stil=
l learning. Thanks!
> > > >=20
> > > > -Marhieu
> > > >=20
> > > > =20
> > > >=20
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > fot@autox.team.net mailto:fot@autox.team.net
> > > >=20
> > > > http://www.fot-racing.com
> > > >=20
> > > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> > > > Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://autox=
.team.net/archive http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot
> > > > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/o=
ptions/fot/quikrx@yahoo.com
> > > >=20
> > > >=20
> > > > > > >=20
> > > > > > >=20
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > fot@autox.team.net mailto:fot@autox.team.net
> > > >=20
> > > > http://www.fot-racing.com
> > > >=20
> > > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> > > > Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.t=
eam.net/pipermail/fot
> > > > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/o=
ptions/fot/vfracing@aol.com
> > > >=20
> > > >=20
> > > > > > >=20
> > > > >=20
> >=20
> > =20
> >=20
> > > > >=20
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > fot@autox.team.net mailto:fot@autox.team.net
> > >=20
> > > http://www.fot-racing.com
> > >=20
> > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> > > Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.team.ne=
t/pipermail/fot
> > > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options=
/fot/dlhogye@comcast.net
> > >=20
> > >=20
> > > > >=20
> >=20
> > =20
> >=20
> > >=20
=20
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Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<!DOCTYPE html>
<html><head>
<meta charset=3D"UTF-8">
</head><body><p style=3D"font-size: 12pt; font-family: helvetica, arial, sa=
ns-serif; color: rgb(51, 51, 51);">I tried Porterfeild for the first time a=
fter I discovered problems with Carbotech and was further disappointed in w=
hat they sent me.  The friction pad surface was hanging "at least&=
#34; 1/8" over the outer edge of the rotor.  I could not believe i=
t.  I sent them back.  I took photos and video to document my dis=
coveries with all these pads and I would happily share them.  When I l=
ocate the Porterfield photo, I will share it.  Of course Porterfield w=
ould correct this if I send them details of my findings, but...  I can=
not believe the total BS learning experience I have been faced with.  =
I simply cannot believe that these companies ship these inferior products.&=
#160; Hawk has been the only company that has sent me the exact same produc=
t that fits every time.</p><p style=3D"font-size: 12pt; font-family: helvet=
ica, arial, sans-serif; color: rgb(51, 51, 51);">TOTAL BS.</p><p style=3D"f=
ont-size: 12pt; font-family: helvetica, arial, sans-serif; color: rgb(51, 5=
1, 51);">Dave H.</p><blockquote type=3D"cite">On July 24, 2019 at 2:41 PM P=
hil Gott <vfracing@aol.com> wrote: <br> <br>I’ve been using P=
orterfield R4 with good results. Easy to modulate, work reasonably well whe=
n cold (safe pace lap) and last about 5-6 events with squaring every two ra=
ces. <br> <br><div id=3D"ox-f2c81da09d-AppleMailSignature" dir=3D"ltr">Sent=
from my iPhone</div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br>On Jul 24, 2019, at 4:22 PM, <=
; <a href=3D"mailto:timmmurphh@gmail.com";>timmmurphh@gmail.com</a>> =
0; <a href=3D"mailto:timmmurphh@gmail.com";>timmmurphh@gmail.com</a>> wr=
ote: <br> <br></div><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=
=3D"ox-f2c81da09d-WordSection1"><p class=3D"ox-f2c81da09d-MsoNormal">Maybe =
that explains the high wear rate that we are seeing lately on the Carbotech=
CT2-XP10 brake pads we are using.  We used to get almost 4 or 5 race =
weekends out of a set of pads.  Now it’s like one and half race =
weekends.  What is the wear rate for others that are using this pad?</=
p><p class=3D"ox-f2c81da09d-MsoNormal"> </p><p class=3D"ox-f2c81da09d-=
MsoNormal">Maybe I will have to go back to the Hawk HB-169E.560 Blue/9012 c=
ompound brake pads that we were using.  Anyone have other suggestions?=
  We like the stopping power, fast warm up and feel of the Carbotech p=
ads but the wear is getting a little pricey at about $200 a set.</p><p clas=
s=3D"ox-f2c81da09d-MsoNormal"> </p><p class=3D"ox-f2c81da09d-MsoNormal=
">Tim and Ryan Murphy</p><p class=3D"ox-f2c81da09d-MsoNormal">#317 TR4 BRG<=
/p><p class=3D"ox-f2c81da09d-MsoNormal"> </p><div><div style=3D"border=
: none; border-top: solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt; padding: 3.0pt 0in 0in 0in;"><p cl=
ass=3D"ox-f2c81da09d-MsoNormal"><strong>From:</strong> Fot <<a href=3D"=
mailto:fot-bounces@autox.team.net";>fot-bounces@autox.team.net</a>> <str=
ong>On Behalf Of </strong>DAVE HOGYE via Fot<br><strong>Sent:</strong> Sund=
ay, July 21, 2019 11:11 PM<br><strong>To:</strong> Phil Gott <<a href=
=3D"mailto:vfracing@aol.com";>vfracing@aol.com</a>>; Phil Gott via Fot &=
#60;<a href=3D"mailto:fot@autox.team.net";>fot@autox.team.net</a>>; ralp=
h hansen <<a href=3D"mailto:quikrx@yahoo.com";>quikrx@yahoo.com</a>>=
<br><strong>Subject:</strong> Re: [Fot] squaring pads</p></div></div><p cla=
ss=3D"ox-f2c81da09d-MsoNormal"> </p><p><span style=3D"font-size: 12.0p=
t; font-family: 'Helvetica',sans-serif; color: #333333;">The more clearance=
between the slot in the caliper and the pad backing plate the quicker this=
becomes a problem.   I've measured .010-.012" total clea=
rance on an NOS street pad and as much as .070" on a set of Carbotech p=
ads.  The edges of the Carbotech backing plates looked to have been, (=
were definitely), ground off on and belt sander or grinder from the factory=
, right down to the edge of the friction pad and they were out of square by=
.035".  The side of the pad was making contact with the caliper s=
lot.  This immediately caused problems with the caliper pistons cockin=
g severely.  The pistons even left a witness mark in the bore of the c=
alipers.  Not good.  The Carbotech pads had .070" wear diagon=
ally across the friction surface in a couple of weekends of racing.  U=
nfortunately, Carbotech made many excuses and denials when I brought this t=
o their attention.   </span></p><p><span style=3D"font-size: 12.0=
pt; font-family: 'Helvetica',sans-serif; color: #333333;">If the pad backin=
g plate is held close in the slot, the piston cannot get cocked as severely=
under hard braking.  Squaring of pad surface may still be desirable a=
t some point, but pay close attention between of the width of the backing p=
late and the caliper slot.   </span></p><p><span style=3D"font-si=
ze: 12.0pt; font-family: 'Helvetica',sans-serif; color: #333333;">I have fo=
und Hawk pads to be made with as close a clearance as factory pads and the =
same dimension on every order.  No variations.  The Hawk pads als=
o have the same shape as factory pads, more like a pie cut.  Wider at =
the outer edge.  This helps compensates for rotor surface speed and re=
duces uneven wear.  </span></p><p><span style=3D"font-size: 12.0pt; fo=
nt-family: 'Helvetica',sans-serif; color: #333333;">I do like the feel of t=
he Carbotechs, but I cannot rely on their quality control. </span></p><p><s=
pan style=3D"font-size: 12.0pt; font-family: 'Helvetica',sans-serif; color:=
#333333;">As you apply the brakes, the piston extends.  If the pad ca=
n move greatly within the caliper slot, the piston with take the side load,=
not the backing plate of the pad as it should.  If the backing plate =
is not square, the pad will also rotate a little.  Definitely not good=
. </span></p><p><span style=3D"font-size: 12.0pt; font-family: 'Helvetica',=
sans-serif; color: #333333;">Beware, </span></p><p><span style=3D"font-size=
: 12.0pt; font-family: 'Helvetica',sans-serif; color: #333333;">Dave H. </s=
pan></p><p><span style=3D"font-size: 12.0pt; font-family: 'Helvetica',sans-=
serif; color: #333333;">   </span></p><blockquote><p class=3D"ox-f2c81=
da09d-MsoNormal">On July 21, 2019 at 12:27 PM Phil Gott via Fot <<a hre=
f=3D"mailto:fot@autox.team.net";>fot@autox.team.net</a>> wrote: <br><br>=
The pads wear unevenly both radially and a bit circumferentially due to dif=
ferent surface speeds and friction forces. As the pads wear unevenly they &=
#8220;cock” in the caliper and bind up. The more wear, the greater th=
e binding. </p><div><p class=3D"ox-f2c81da09d-MsoNormal">Using some so=
rt of a device (surface grinder, drill press etc with a good dust collector=
and mask for the operator) to make the face of the friction material paral=
lel to the backing plate solves this issue.</p></div><div><p class=3D"ox-f2=
c81da09d-MsoNormal">Yes, this does change the surface of the pad presented =
to the rotor. I do not change rotors as they are in good shape. Any small t=
o microscopic irregularities between the two quickly get dealt with during =
the first session out after squaring the pads. This would be the same as pu=
tting new pads on the car with the old rotors. Just treat the first few lap=
s as if you are bedding in new brakes, which to some extent you are (except=
for temperature effects).</p></div><div><p class=3D"ox-f2c81da09d-MsoNorma=
l">Different from a street machine where rust and grit take their toll in t=
he rotor surface.</p></div><div><p class=3D"ox-f2c81da09d-MsoNormal">Phil G=
ott</p></div><div><p class=3D"ox-f2c81da09d-MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bott=
om: 12.0pt;">114 TR4A</p><p class=3D"ox-f2c81da09d-MsoNormal">Sent from my =
iPhone</p><div><p class=3D"ox-f2c81da09d-MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:=
12.0pt;"><br>On Jul 21, 2019, at 10:33 AM, ralph hansen via Fot < <a h=
ref=3D"mailto:fot@autox.team.net";>fot@autox.team.net</a>> wrote:</p></d=
iv><blockquote><div><div><p class=3D"ox-f2c81da09d-MsoNormal"><span style=
=3D"font-size: 10.0pt; font-family: 'Helvetica',sans-serif;">  </span>=
</p></div><div><p class=3D"ox-f2c81da09d-MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-siz=
e: 10.0pt; font-family: 'Helvetica',sans-serif;">  </span></p></div><d=
iv><p class=3D"ox-f2c81da09d-MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10.0pt; f=
ont-family: 'Helvetica',sans-serif;">not to rain on the parade but, are you=
turning the rotors each time to make sure they are square also? if not, yo=
u now have unmatched surfaces - in the old days with good metal rotors I co=
uld see a slight advantage, these days with the good pads we get, and soft =
rotors they wear together, you might actually get a very slight increase in=
surface contact due to the angles and dangles - and, as you machine the ro=
tors you lose mass, the all important heat sink that makes brakes work.... =
</span></p></div><div><p class=3D"ox-f2c81da09d-MsoNormal"><span style=3D"f=
ont-size: 10.0pt; font-family: 'Helvetica',sans-serif;">   </span></p>=
</div><div><p class=3D"ox-f2c81da09d-MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 1=
0.0pt; font-family: 'Helvetica',sans-serif;">  </span></p></div><div><=
div><p class=3D"ox-f2c81da09d-MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10.0pt; =
font-family: 'Helvetica',sans-serif; color: #26282a;">On Saturday, July 20,=
2019, 07:19:46 PM CDT, Mathieu W. Huovinen via Fot < <a href=3D"mailto=
:fot@autox.team.net">fot@autox.team.net</a>> wrote: </span></p></div><d=
iv><p class=3D"ox-f2c81da09d-MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10.0pt; f=
ont-family: 'Helvetica',sans-serif; color: #26282a;">   </span></p></d=
iv><div><p class=3D"ox-f2c81da09d-MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10.0=
pt; font-family: 'Helvetica',sans-serif; color: #26282a;">   </span></=
p></div><div><p><span style=3D"font-size: 10.0pt; font-family: 'Helvetica',=
sans-serif; color: #26282a;">  </span></p><p><span style=3D"font-size:=
10.0pt; font-family: 'Helvetica',sans-serif; color: #26282a;">Squaring up =
the pads? Please tell me more, I'm still learning. Thanks! </span></p><=
p><span style=3D"font-size: 10.0pt; font-family: 'Helvetica',sans-serif; co=
lor: #26282a;">-Marhieu </span></p><div><p class=3D"ox-f2c81da09d-MsoNormal=
"><span style=3D"font-size: 10.0pt; font-family: 'Helvetica',sans-serif; co=
lor: #26282a;">  </span></p></div><p class=3D"ox-f2c81da09d-MsoNormal"=
style=3D"margin-bottom: 12.0pt;"><span style=3D"font-size: 10.0pt; font-fa=
mily: 'Helvetica',sans-serif; color: #26282a;">____________________________=
___________________ <br><a href=3D"mailto:fot@autox.team.net"; target=3D"_bl=
ank" rel=3D"noopener">fot@autox.team.net</a> <br><br><a href=3D"http://www.=
fot-racing.com" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noopener">http://www.fot-racing.co=
m</a> <br><br>Donate: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/donate.html"; target=3D=
"_blank" rel=3D"noopener">http://www.team.net/donate.html</a> <br>Archive: =
<a href=3D"http://autox.team.net/archive"; target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noopener=
">http://autox.team.net/archive </a><a href=3D"http://www.team.net/pipermai=
l/fot" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noopener">http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot=
</a> <br>Unsubscribe/Manage: <a href=3D"http://autox.team.net/mailman/optio=
ns/fot/quikrx@yahoo.com" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noopener">http://autox.te=
am.net/mailman/options/fot/quikrx@yahoo.com</a> <br><br> </span></p></div><=
/div></div></blockquote><blockquote><div><p class=3D"ox-f2c81da09d-MsoNorma=
l" style=3D"margin-bottom: 12.0pt;">_______________________________________=
________<br><a href=3D"mailto:fot@autox.team.net";>fot@autox.team.net</a> <b=
r><br><a href=3D"http://www.fot-racing.com";>http://www.fot-racing.com</a> <=
br><br>Donate: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/donate.html";>http://www.team.=
net/donate.html</a> <br>Archive: <a href=3D"http://autox.team.net/archive";>=
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fot">http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot</a> <br>Unsubscribe/Manage: <a href=
=3D"http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/vfracing@aol.com";>http://auto=
x.team.net/mailman/options/fot/vfracing@aol.com</a> <br><br></p></div></blo=
ckquote></div></blockquote><p class=3D"ox-f2c81da09d-default-style"><span s=
tyle=3D"font-size: 12.0pt; font-family: 'Helvetica',sans-serif; color: #333=
333;"><br>  </span></p><blockquote><p class=3D"ox-f2c81da09d-MsoNormal=
" style=3D"margin-bottom: 12.0pt;">________________________________________=
_______ <br><a href=3D"mailto:fot@autox.team.net";>fot@autox.team.net</a> <b=
r><br><a href=3D"http://www.fot-racing.com";>http://www.fot-racing.com</a> <=
br><br>Donate: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/donate.html";>http://www.team.=
net/donate.html</a> <br>Archive: <a href=3D"http://autox.team.net/archive";>=
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=3D"http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/dlhogye@comcast.net";>http://a=
utox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/dlhogye@comcast.net</a> <br><br></p></blo=
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