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I=E2=80=99ve been using Porterfield R4 with good results. Easy to modulate, w=
ork reasonably well when cold (safe pace lap) and last about 5-6 events with=
squaring every two races.
Sent from my iPhone
> On Jul 24, 2019, at 4:22 PM, <timmmurphh@gmail.com> <timmmurphh@gmail.com>=
wrote:
>=20
> Maybe that explains the high wear rate that we are seeing lately on the Ca=
rbotech CT2-XP10 brake pads we are using. We used to get almost 4 or 5 race=
weekends out of a set of pads. Now it=E2=80=99s like one and half race wee=
kends. What is the wear rate for others that are using this pad?
> =20
> Maybe I will have to go back to the Hawk HB-169E.560 Blue/9012 compound br=
ake pads that we were using. Anyone have other suggestions? We like the st=
opping power, fast warm up and feel of the Carbotech pads but the wear is ge=
tting a little pricey at about $200 a set.
> =20
> Tim and Ryan Murphy
> #317 TR4 BRG
> =20
> From: Fot <fot-bounces@autox.team.net> On Behalf Of DAVE HOGYE via Fot
> Sent: Sunday, July 21, 2019 11:11 PM
> To: Phil Gott <vfracing@aol.com>; Phil Gott via Fot <fot@autox.team.net>; r=
alph hansen <quikrx@yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: [Fot] squaring pads
> =20
> The more clearance between the slot in the caliper and the pad backing pla=
te the quicker this becomes a problem. I've measured .010-.012" total clea=
rance on an NOS street pad and as much as .070" on a set of Carbotech pads. =
The edges of the Carbotech backing plates looked to have been, (were defini=
tely), ground off on and belt sander or grinder from the factory, right down=
to the edge of the friction pad and they were out of square by .035". The s=
ide of the pad was making contact with the caliper slot. This immediately c=
aused problems with the caliper pistons cocking severely. The pistons even l=
eft a witness mark in the bore of the calipers. Not good. The Carbotech pa=
ds had .070" wear diagonally across the friction surface in a couple of week=
ends of racing. Unfortunately, Carbotech made many excuses and denials when=
I brought this to their attention. =20
>=20
> If the pad backing plate is held close in the slot, the piston cannot get c=
ocked as severely under hard braking. Squaring of pad surface may still be d=
esirable at some point, but pay close attention between of the width of the b=
acking plate and the caliper slot. =20
>=20
> I have found Hawk pads to be made with as close a clearance as factory pad=
s and the same dimension on every order. No variations. The Hawk pads also=
have the same shape as factory pads, more like a pie cut. Wider at the out=
er edge. This helps compensates for rotor surface speed and reduces uneven w=
ear.=20
>=20
> I do like the feel of the Carbotechs, but I cannot rely on their quality c=
ontrol.
>=20
> As you apply the brakes, the piston extends. If the pad can move greatly w=
ithin the caliper slot, the piston with take the side load, not the backing p=
late of the pad as it should. If the backing plate is not square, the pad w=
ill also rotate a little. Definitely not good.
>=20
> Beware,
>=20
> Dave H.
>=20
> =20
>=20
> On July 21, 2019 at 12:27 PM Phil Gott via Fot <fot@autox.team.net> wrote:=
=20
>=20
> The pads wear unevenly both radially and a bit circumferentially due to di=
fferent surface speeds and friction forces. As the pads wear unevenly they =E2=
=80=9Ccock=E2=80=9D in the caliper and bind up. The more wear, the greater t=
he binding.=20
> Using some sort of a device (surface grinder, drill press etc with a good d=
ust collector and mask for the operator) to make the face of the friction ma=
terial parallel to the backing plate solves this issue.
> Yes, this does change the surface of the pad presented to the rotor. I do n=
ot change rotors as they are in good shape. Any small to microscopic irregul=
arities between the two quickly get dealt with during the first session out a=
fter squaring the pads. This would be the same as putting new pads on the ca=
r with the old rotors. Just treat the first few laps as if you are bedding i=
n new brakes, which to some extent you are (except for temperature effects).=
> Different from a street machine where rust and grit take their toll in the=
rotor surface.
> Phil Gott
> 114 TR4A
>=20
> Sent from my iPhone
>=20
> On Jul 21, 2019, at 10:33 AM, ralph hansen via Fot < fot@autox.team.net> w=
rote:
>=20
> =20
> =20
> not to rain on the parade but, are you turning the rotors each time to mak=
e sure they are square also? if not, you now have unmatched surfaces - in th=
e old days with good metal rotors I could see a slight advantage, these days=
with the good pads we get, and soft rotors they wear together, you might ac=
tually get a very slight increase in surface contact due to the angles and d=
angles - and, as you machine the rotors you lose mass, the all important hea=
t sink that makes brakes work....
> =20
> =20
> On Saturday, July 20, 2019, 07:19:46 PM CDT, Mathieu W. Huovinen via Fot <=
fot@autox.team.net> wrote:
> =20
> =20
> =20
>=20
> Squaring up the pads? Please tell me more, I'm still learning. Thanks!
>=20
> -Marhieu
>=20
> =20
> _______________________________________________=20
> fot@autox.team.net=20
>=20
> http://www.fot-racing.com=20
>=20
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html=20
> Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot=20=
> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/quikrx@yahoo=
.com=20
>=20
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> fot@autox.team.net=20
>=20
> http://www.fot-racing.com=20
>=20
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html=20
> Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot=20=
> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/vfracing@aol=
.com=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
> =20
>=20
> _______________________________________________=20
> fot@autox.team.net=20
>=20
> http://www.fot-racing.com=20
>=20
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html=20
> Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot=20=
> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/dlhogye@comc=
ast.net=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
> =20
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Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"content-type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3D=
utf-8"></head><body dir=3D"auto">I=E2=80=99ve been using Porterfield R4 with=
good results. Easy to modulate, work reasonably well when cold (safe pace l=
ap) and last about 5-6 events with squaring every two races.<br><br><div id=3D=
"AppleMailSignature" dir=3D"ltr">Sent from my iPhone</div><div dir=3D"ltr"><=
br>On Jul 24, 2019, at 4:22 PM, <<a href=3D"mailto:timmmurphh@gmail.com";>=
timmmurphh@gmail.com</a>> <<a href=3D"mailto:timmmurphh@gmail.com";>tim=
mmurphh@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br><br></div><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div=
dir=3D"ltr"><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; charset=
=3Dutf-8"><meta name=3D"Generator" content=3D"Microsoft Word 15 (filtered me=
dium)"><style><!--
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<o:idmap v:ext=3D"edit" data=3D"1" />
</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--><div class=3D"WordSection1"><p class=3D"Ms=
oNormal">Maybe that explains the high wear rate that we are seeing lately on=
the Carbotech CT2-XP10 brake pads we are using. We used to get almost=
4 or 5 race weekends out of a set of pads. Now it=E2=80=99s like one a=
nd half race weekends. What is the wear rate for others that are using=
this pad?<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p><p clas=
s=3D"MsoNormal">Maybe I will have to go back to the Hawk HB-169E.560 Blue/90=
12 compound brake pads that we were using. Anyone have other suggestio=
ns? We like the stopping power, fast warm up and feel of the Carbotech=
pads but the wear is getting a little pricey at about $200 a set.<o:p></o:p=
></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal">Tim a=
nd Ryan Murphy<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal">#317 TR4 BRG<o:p></o:p><=
/p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div style=3D"border:non=
e;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in"><p class=3D"MsoN=
ormal"><b>From:</b> Fot <<a href=3D"mailto:fot-bounces@autox.team.net";>fo=
t-bounces@autox.team.net</a>> <b>On Behalf Of </b>DAVE HOGYE via Fot<br><=
b>Sent:</b> Sunday, July 21, 2019 11:11 PM<br><b>To:</b> Phil Gott <<a hr=
ef=3D"mailto:vfracing@aol.com";>vfracing@aol.com</a>>; Phil Gott via Fot &=
lt;<a href=3D"mailto:fot@autox.team.net";>fot@autox.team.net</a>>; ralph h=
ansen <<a href=3D"mailto:quikrx@yahoo.com";>quikrx@yahoo.com</a>><br><b=
>Subject:</b> Re: [Fot] squaring pads<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p class=3D"=
MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p><p><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-fami=
ly:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#333333">The more clearance betwee=
n the slot in the caliper and the pad backing plate the quicker this becomes=
a problem. I've measured .010-.012" total clearance on an NOS s=
treet pad and as much as .070" on a set of Carbotech pads. The edges o=
f the Carbotech backing plates looked to have been, (were definitely), groun=
d off on and belt sander or grinder from the factory, right down to the edge=
of the friction pad and they were out of square by .035". The side of=
the pad was making contact with the caliper slot. This immediately ca=
used problems with the caliper pistons cocking severely. The pistons e=
ven left a witness mark in the bore of the calipers. Not good. T=
he Carbotech pads had .070" wear diagonally across the friction surface in a=
couple of weekends of racing. Unfortunately, Carbotech made many excu=
ses and denials when I brought this to their attention. <o:p></o:=
p></span></p><p><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica&=
quot;,sans-serif;color:#333333">If the pad backing plate is held close in th=
e slot, the piston cannot get cocked as severely under hard braking. S=
quaring of pad surface may still be desirable at some point, but pay close a=
ttention between of the width of the backing plate and the caliper slot.&nbs=
p; <o:p></o:p></span></p><p><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family=
:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#333333">I have found Hawk pads to b=
e made with as close a clearance as factory pads and the same dimension on e=
very order. No variations. The Hawk pads also have the same shap=
e as factory pads, more like a pie cut. Wider at the outer edge. =
This helps compensates for rotor surface speed and reduces uneven wear.&nbs=
p;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"=
;Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#333333">I do like the feel of the Carbote=
chs, but I cannot rely on their quality control.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p><sp=
an style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;co=
lor:#333333">As you apply the brakes, the piston extends. If the pad c=
an move greatly within the caliper slot, the piston with take the side load,=
not the backing plate of the pad as it should. If the backing plate i=
s not square, the pad will also rotate a little. Definitely not good.<=
o:p></o:p></span></p><p><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"He=
lvetica",sans-serif;color:#333333">Beware,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p><spa=
n style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;col=
or:#333333">Dave H.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;=
font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#333333"><o:p> </o:p=
></span></p><blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt"><p cl=
ass=3D"MsoNormal">On July 21, 2019 at 12:27 PM Phil Gott via Fot <<a href=
=3D"mailto:fot@autox.team.net";>fot@autox.team.net</a>> wrote: <br><br>The=
pads wear unevenly both radially and a bit circumferentially due to differe=
nt surface speeds and friction forces. As the pads wear unevenly they =E2=80=
=9Ccock=E2=80=9D in the caliper and bind up. The more wear, the greater the b=
inding. <o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">Using some sort of a=
device (surface grinder, drill press etc with a good dust collector and mas=
k for the operator) to make the face of the friction material parallel to th=
e backing plate solves this issue.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoN=
ormal">Yes, this does change the surface of the pad presented to the rotor. I=
do not change rotors as they are in good shape. Any small to microscopic ir=
regularities between the two quickly get dealt with during the first session=
out after squaring the pads. This would be the same as putting new pads on t=
he car with the old rotors. Just treat the first few laps as if you are bedd=
ing in new brakes, which to some extent you are (except for temperature effe=
cts).<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">Different from a stree=
t machine where rust and grit take their toll in the rotor surface.<o:p></o:=
p></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">Phil Gott<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><=
p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt">114 TR4A <o:p></o:p></p=
><div id=3D"ox-aa14149620-AppleMailSignature"><p class=3D"MsoNormal">Sent fr=
om my iPhone<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin=
-bottom:12.0pt"><br>On Jul 21, 2019, at 10:33 AM, ralph hansen via Fot < <=
a href=3D"mailto:fot@autox.team.net";>fot@autox.team.net</a>> wrote: <o:p>=
</o:p></p></div><blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt"><=
div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=
"Helvetica",sans-serif"> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p c=
lass=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helveti=
ca",sans-serif"> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoN=
ormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",san=
s-serif">not to rain on the parade but, are you turning the rotors each time=
to make sure they are square also? if not, you now have unmatched surfaces -=
in the old days with good metal rotors I could see a slight advantage, thes=
e days with the good pads we get, and soft rotors they wear together, you mi=
ght actually get a very slight increase in surface contact due to the angles=
and dangles - and, as you machine the rotors you lose mass, the all importa=
nt heat sink that makes brakes work....<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p c=
lass=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helveti=
ca",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoN=
ormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",san=
s-serif"> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div id=3D"ox-aa14149620-ydpfe570=
25dyahoo_quoted_4630465933"><div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"=
font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282A"=
>On Saturday, July 20, 2019, 07:19:46 PM CDT, Mathieu W. Huovinen via Fot &l=
t; <a href=3D"mailto:fot@autox.team.net";>fot@autox.team.net</a>> wrote:<o=
:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-si=
ze:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282A"><o:p>&=
nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-=
size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282A"><o:p=
> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-f=
amily:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282A"> <o:p></o:p></spa=
n></p><p><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",s=
ans-serif;color:#26282A">Squaring up the pads? Please tell me more, I'm stil=
l learning. Thanks!<o:p></o:p></span></p><p><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;=
font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282A">-Marhieu<o:p></o=
:p></span></p><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;fo=
nt-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282A"> <o:p></o:p><=
/span></p></div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span s=
tyle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:=
#26282A">_______________________________________________ <br><a href=3D"mail=
to:fot@autox.team.net" target=3D"_blank">fot@autox.team.net</a> <br><br><a h=
ref=3D"http://www.fot-racing.com"; target=3D"_blank">http://www.fot-racing.co=
m</a> <br><br>Donate: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/donate.html"; target=3D"=
_blank">http://www.team.net/donate.html</a> <br>Archive: <a href=3D"http://a=
utox.team.net/archive" target=3D"_blank">http://autox.team.net/archive </a><=
a href=3D"http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot"; target=3D"_blank">http://www.te=
am.net/pipermail/fot</a> <br>Unsubscribe/Manage: <a href=3D"http://autox.tea=
m.net/mailman/options/fot/quikrx@yahoo.com" target=3D"_blank">http://autox.t=
eam.net/mailman/options/fot/quikrx@yahoo.com</a> <br><br><o:p></o:p></span><=
/p></div></div></div></div></blockquote><blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0p=
t;margin-bottom:5.0pt"><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12=
.0pt">_______________________________________________<br><a href=3D"mailto:f=
ot@autox.team.net">fot@autox.team.net</a> <br><br><a href=3D"http://www.fot-=
racing.com">http://www.fot-racing.com</a> <br><br>Donate: <a href=3D"http://=
www.team.net/donate.html">http://www.team.net/donate.html</a> <br>Archive: <=
a href=3D"http://autox.team.net/archive";>http://autox.team.net/archive</a> <=
a href=3D"http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot";>http://www.team.net/pipermail/f=
ot</a> <br>Unsubscribe/Manage: <a href=3D"http://autox.team.net/mailman/opti=
ons/fot/vfracing@aol.com">http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/vfracing=
@aol.com</a> <br><br><o:p></o:p></p></div></blockquote></div></blockquote><p=
class=3D"default-style"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"H=
elvetica",sans-serif;color:#333333"><br> <o:p></o:p></span></p><bl=
ockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt"><p class=3D"MsoNorma=
l" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt">__________________________________________=
_____ <br><a href=3D"mailto:fot@autox.team.net";>fot@autox.team.net</a> <br><=
br><a href=3D"http://www.fot-racing.com";>http://www.fot-racing.com</a> <br><=
br>Donate: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/donate.html";>http://www.team.net/d=
onate.html</a> <br>Archive: <a href=3D"http://autox.team.net/archive";>http:/=
/autox.team.net/archive</a> <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot";>ht=
tp://www.team.net/pipermail/fot</a> <br>Unsubscribe/Manage: <a href=3D"http:=
//autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/dlhogye@comcast.net">http://autox.team.=
net/mailman/options/fot/dlhogye@comcast.net</a> <br><br><o:p></o:p></p></blo=
ckquote><p class=3D"default-style"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-fami=
ly:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#333333"><br> <o:p></o:p></sp=
an></p></div></div></blockquote></body></html>=
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_______________________________________________
fot@autox.team.net
http://www.fot-racing.com
Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot
--===============0114901146452819870==--
|