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Thanks everyone for the input!
Very helpful!
Phil
Sent from my iPhone
> On Nov 24, 2019, at 9:28 PM, DAVE HOGYE via Fot <fot@autox.team.net> wrote=
:
>=20
> =EF=BB=BF
> My brother worked for Gran Turismo Jaguar in Northern Ohio a few decades a=
go and I remember well him telling me they taught him how to straighten cran=
ks with a mallet of some sort, set up in a rotational device. I thought it=
was barbaric at the time having never heard of that sort of thing, but GTJ d=
efinitely knew what they were doing. GTJ built championship winning Jags.=20=
> Dave H.=20
>>> On November 24, 2019 at 4:57 PM "John H. Hasty via Fot" <fot@autox.team.=
net> wrote:=20
>>>=20
>>> Chris: That is exactly how we built the roller bearing crank half's for=
our two stroke GP bikes... well placed blows with a brass hammer and in an h=
our or so you end up with a straight crank=20
>>>=20
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>=20
>>> On Nov 24, 2019, at 6:27 PM, Chris Marx via Fot <fot@autox.team.net> wro=
te:=20
>>>=20
>>> Hi Phil,
>>>=20
>>> =20
>>>=20
>>> If I give a crank to the machine shop for testing and maybe polishing th=
ey also correcting straightness.
>>>=20
>>> They using a hammer and a wedge like tool with brass or bronze surface a=
nd giving it a big blow at some places to make it straight.
>>>=20
>>> They also checking with magna flux system for cracks.
>>>=20
>>> =20
>>>=20
>>> I run 0.0027=E2=80=9D main bearing clearance.
>>>=20
>>> =20
>>>=20
>>> For sure Kas throw in is right. I keep the revs below 6k with the standa=
rd crank.
>>>=20
>>> Many people going up to 7k with their engines but I don=E2=80=99t dare. A=
billet crank might help a little but I saw billet cranks breaking too.
>>>=20
>>> =20
>>>=20
>>> Engine power is not my main concern. Cornering speed is.
>>>=20
>>> =20
>>>=20
>>> Cheers
>>>=20
>>> Chris
>>>=20
>>> =20
>>>=20
>>> =20
>>>=20
>>> Von: Fot <fot-bounces@autox.team.net> Im Auftrag von Phil Gott via Fot
>>> Gesendet: Sonntag, 24. November 2019 22:03
>>> An: Friends Of Triumph <fot@autox.team.net>
>>> Betreff: Re: [Fot] Center main support
>>>=20
>>> =20
>>>=20
>>> Interesting, Chris:
>>>=20
>>> My machine shop said that .002=E2=80=9D run out at the center main, with=
the crank supported and spun on numbers 1 and 3 was a sign that it was deve=
loping high levels of internal stress (work hardening) and that it should be=
retired. They aim for 0 run out under these conditions. Based on what you=E2=
=80=99ve said, I wonder if they are being overly cautious. As they do not gr=
ind cranks themselves ( only polishing and balancing), they had little to ga=
in from that diagnosis.
>>> Thanks for the input.
>>>=20
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>> On Nov 24, 2019, at 9:26 AM, Tony Drews <tony@tonydrews.com> wrote:
>>>=20
>>> =20
>>>=20
>>> Wow! It's very nicely done. Certainly overkill.
>>>=20
>>> Regards, Tony
>>>=20
>>> On 11/23/2019 9:11 PM, Phil Gott wrote:
>>>=20
>>> Here are some photos:
>>>=20
>>> <image0.jpeg>
>>>=20
>>> =20
>>>=20
>>> <image1.jpeg>
>>>=20
>>> =20
>>>=20
>>> =20
>>>=20
>>> <image2.jpeg>
>>>=20
>>> =20
>>>=20
>>> =20
>>>=20
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>> On Nov 23, 2019, at 12:23 PM, Tony Drews <tony@tonydrews.com> wrote:
>>>=20
>>> =20
>>>=20
>>> I agree, that sounds like overkill. Mine only requires the top of the c=
ap to be machined flat, no other block mods.
>>>=20
>>> Regards, Tony
>>>=20
>>> On 11/23/2019 5:42 AM, Phil Gott wrote:
>>>=20
>>> Thanks again, Tony:
>>>=20
>>> The one we have, built by the late Bill Throop, in addition to reinforc=
ing the cap itself, has the block machined internally to accept the sides of=
a strap, then the strap is cross bolted from the sides, through the block f=
rom outside. I=E2=80=99m wondering if this is a bit of overkill. Based on y=
our recommendation, it seems to be.
>>>=20
>>> Maybe I can send some pictures later today, as we are pulling the engine=
today for other work.
>>>=20
>>> Phil
>>>=20
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>> On Nov 22, 2019, at 10:56 PM, Tony Drews <tony@tonydrews.com> wrote:
>>>=20
>>> =20
>>>=20
>>> I run that setup, it was an uncle jack trick. Here's what he wrote abou=
t that (on my engine building tips page):
>>>=20
>>> "I also like to strap the center main to add rigidity to the bottom end.=
To do this, mill off the cast face of the main flush with the surfaces for=
the head bolts. Get a front strap for a Chevy 400 block. You must enlarge t=
he holes in the strap and you must use longer bolts. Some builders feel t=
hat this is totally unnecessary, but since starting to do this, I have never=
had a main bearing deteriorate faster than a rod bearing, which is somethin=
g that happens more frequently than you would expect."
>>>=20
>>> Regards, Tony Drews
>>>=20
>>> =20
>>>=20
>>> On 11/22/2019 3:58 PM, Phil Gott via Fot wrote:
>>>=20
>>> Has anyone seen the need to add extra support to the center main on the T=
R wet sleeve engine? We have an engine that has a steel bridge cross-bolted u=
nderneath and supporting the center main cap. Is this needed? Just took 3 fa=
ctory cranks to the machine shop and all three were bent about .002 in (.002=
run out at center main when supported on first and last mains.) Two of thes=
e were raced, the third was removed from a tired street engine. note: None o=
f these cranks came out of the engine with extra support at the center.
>>> =20
>>> Curious as to the need for the extra support.
>>> =20
>>> Thanks,
>>> =20
>>> Phil Gott
>>> =20
>>> 114 TR4A
>>> =20
>>> =20
>>> =20
>>> =20
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> =20
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> =20
>>> fot@autox.team.net
>>> =20
>>> =20
>>> =20
>>> =20
>>> http://www.fot-racing.com
>>> =20
>>> =20
>>> =20
>>> =20
>>> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
>>> =20
>>> Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot=
>>> =20
>>> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/tony@tonyd=
rews.com
>>> =20
>>> =20
>>> =20
>>> =20
>>> =20
>>> =20
>>> =20
>>> =20
>>> =20
>>> =20
>>> _______________________________________________=20
>>> fot@autox.team.net=20
>>>=20
>>> http://www.fot-racing.com=20
>>>=20
>>> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html=20
>>> Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot=
=20
>>> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/jhasty@mhc=
-law.com=20
>>>=20
>>>=20
>> _______________________________________________=20
>> fot@autox.team.net=20
>>=20
>> http://www.fot-racing.com=20
>>=20
>> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html=20
>> Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot=20=
>> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/dlhogye@com=
cast.net=20
>>=20
>>=20
>=20
> =20
> _______________________________________________
> fot@autox.team.net
>=20
> http://www.fot-racing.com
>=20
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot
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.com
>=20
>=20
--Apple-Mail-F4B696A5-B171-448D-A73C-589FAA7E81ED
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Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"content-type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3D=
utf-8"></head><body dir=3D"auto">Thanks everyone for the input!<div>Very hel=
pful!</div><div>Phil<br><div><br><div dir=3D"ltr">Sent from my iPhone</div><=
div dir=3D"ltr"><br><blockquote type=3D"cite">On Nov 24, 2019, at 9:28 PM, D=
AVE HOGYE via Fot <fot@autox.team.net> wrote:<br><br></blockquote></di=
v><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div dir=3D"ltr">=EF=BB=BF
=20
<meta charset=3D"UTF-8">=20
=20
=20
<div style=3D"font-size: 12pt; font-family: helvetica, arial, sans-serif; c=
olor: rgb(51, 51, 51);">
My brother worked for Gran Turismo Jaguar in Northern Ohio a few decades a=
go and I remember well him telling me they taught him how to straighten cran=
ks with a mallet of some sort, set up in a rotational device. I thoug=
ht it was barbaric at the time having never heard of that sort of thing, but=
GTJ definitely knew what they were doing. GTJ built championship winn=
ing Jags.
</div>
<div style=3D"font-size: 12pt; font-family: helvetica, arial, sans-serif; c=
olor: rgb(51, 51, 51);">
Dave H.
</div>
<blockquote type=3D"cite">
On November 24, 2019 at 4:57 PM "John H. Hasty via Fot" <fot@autox.tea=
m.net> wrote:=20
<br>=20
<br> Chris: That is exactly how we built the roller bearing crank h=
alf's for our two stroke GP bikes... well placed blows with a brass hammer a=
nd in an hour or so you end up with a straight crank=20
<br>=20
<br>
<div dir=3D"ltr">
Sent from my iPhone
</div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<br>
<blockquote type=3D"cite">
On Nov 24, 2019, at 6:27 PM, Chris Marx via Fot <fot@autox.team.net&=
gt; wrote:=20
<br>=20
<br>
</blockquote>
</div>
<blockquote type=3D"cite">
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div class=3D"ox-bcb1e9c26f-WordSection1">
<p class=3D"ox-bcb1e9c26f-MsoNormal">Hi Phil,</p>
<p class=3D"ox-bcb1e9c26f-MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class=3D"ox-bcb1e9c26f-MsoNormal">If I give a crank to the machine s=
hop for testing and maybe polishing they also correcting straightness.</p>
<p class=3D"ox-bcb1e9c26f-MsoNormal">They using a hammer and a wedge l=
ike tool with brass or bronze surface and giving it a big blow at some place=
s to make it straight.</p>
<p class=3D"ox-bcb1e9c26f-MsoNormal">They also checking with magna flu=
x system for cracks.</p>
<p class=3D"ox-bcb1e9c26f-MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class=3D"ox-bcb1e9c26f-MsoNormal">I run 0.0027=E2=80=9D main bearin=
g clearance.</p>
<p class=3D"ox-bcb1e9c26f-MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class=3D"ox-bcb1e9c26f-MsoNormal">For sure Kas throw in is right. I=
keep the revs below 6k with the standard crank.</p>
<p class=3D"ox-bcb1e9c26f-MsoNormal">Many people going up to 7k with t=
heir engines but I don=E2=80=99t dare. A billet crank might help a little bu=
t I saw billet cranks breaking too.</p>
<p class=3D"ox-bcb1e9c26f-MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class=3D"ox-bcb1e9c26f-MsoNormal">Engine power is not my main conce=
rn. Cornering speed is.</p>
<p class=3D"ox-bcb1e9c26f-MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class=3D"ox-bcb1e9c26f-MsoNormal">Cheers</p>
<p class=3D"ox-bcb1e9c26f-MsoNormal">Chris</p>
<p class=3D"ox-bcb1e9c26f-MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class=3D"ox-bcb1e9c26f-MsoNormal"> </p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border: none; border-top: solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt; padding:=
3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm;">
<p class=3D"ox-bcb1e9c26f-MsoNormal"><strong>Von:</strong> Fot <f=
ot-bounces@autox.team.net> <strong>Im Auftrag von </strong>Phil Gott via =
Fot<br> <strong>Gesendet:</strong> Sonntag, 24. November 2019 22:03<br> <str=
ong>An:</strong> Friends Of Triumph <fot@autox.team.net><br> <strong>B=
etreff:</strong> Re: [Fot] Center main support</p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"ox-bcb1e9c26f-MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class=3D"ox-bcb1e9c26f-MsoNormal">Interesting, Chris:</p>
<div>
<p class=3D"ox-bcb1e9c26f-MsoNormal">My machine shop said that .002=E2=
=80=9D run out at the center main, with the crank supported and spun on numb=
ers 1 and 3 was a sign that it was developing high levels of internal stress=
(work hardening) and that it should be retired. They aim for 0 run out unde=
r these conditions. Based on what you=E2=80=99ve said, I wonder if they are b=
eing overly cautious. As they do not grind cranks themselves ( only polishin=
g and balancing), they had little to gain from that diagnosis.<br> Thanks fo=
r the input.</p>
<div>
<p class=3D"ox-bcb1e9c26f-MsoNormal">Sent from my iPhone</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"ox-bcb1e9c26f-MsoNormal"><br> <br></p>
<blockquote>
<p style=3D"margin-bottom: 12.0pt;" class=3D"ox-bcb1e9c26f-MsoNorma=
l">On Nov 24, 2019, at 9:26 AM, Tony Drews <<a href=3D"mailto:tony@tonydr=
ews.com">tony@tonydrews.com</a>> wrote:</p>
</blockquote>
</div>
<blockquote>
<div>
<p class=3D"ox-bcb1e9c26f-MsoNormal"> <br></p>
<p>Wow! It's very nicely done. Certainly overkill.</p>
<p>Regards, Tony</p>
<div>
<p class=3D"ox-bcb1e9c26f-MsoNormal">On 11/23/2019 9:11 PM, Phil G=
ott wrote:</p>
</div>
<blockquote>
<p class=3D"ox-bcb1e9c26f-MsoNormal">Here are some photos:</p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"ox-bcb1e9c26f-MsoNormal"><image0.jpeg></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"ox-bcb1e9c26f-MsoNormal"> </p>
<div>
<p class=3D"ox-bcb1e9c26f-MsoNormal"><image1.jpeg></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"ox-bcb1e9c26f-MsoNormal"> </p>
<div>
<p class=3D"ox-bcb1e9c26f-MsoNormal"> </p>
<div>
<p class=3D"ox-bcb1e9c26f-MsoNormal"><image2.jpeg></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"ox-bcb1e9c26f-MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"ox-bcb1e9c26f-MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"ox-bcb1e9c26f-MsoNormal">Sent from my iPhone</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"ox-bcb1e9c26f-MsoNormal"><br> <br></p>
<blockquote>
<p style=3D"margin-bottom: 12.0pt;" class=3D"ox-bcb1e9c26f-MsoN=
ormal">On Nov 23, 2019, at 12:23 PM, Tony Drews <a href=3D"mailto:tony@tonyd=
rews.com"><tony@tonydrews.com></a> wrote:</p>
</blockquote>
</div>
<blockquote>
<div>
<p class=3D"ox-bcb1e9c26f-MsoNormal"> <br></p>
<p>I agree, that sounds like overkill. Mine only requires=
the top of the cap to be machined flat, no other block mods.</p>
<p>Regards, Tony</p>
<div>
<p class=3D"ox-bcb1e9c26f-MsoNormal">On 11/23/2019 5:42 AM, Ph=
il Gott wrote:</p>
</div>
<blockquote>
<p class=3D"ox-bcb1e9c26f-MsoNormal">Thanks again, Tony:</p>
<div>
<p class=3D"ox-bcb1e9c26f-MsoNormal">The one we have, built b=
y the late Bill Throop, in addition to reinforcing the cap itself, has=
the block machined internally to accept the sides of a strap, then the stra=
p is cross bolted from the sides, through the block from outside. &nbs=
p;I=E2=80=99m wondering if this is a bit of overkill. Based on your recommen=
dation, it seems to be.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"ox-bcb1e9c26f-MsoNormal">Maybe I can send some pi=
ctures later today, as we are pulling the engine today for other work.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-bottom: 12.0pt;" class=3D"ox-bcb1e9c26f-Ms=
oNormal">Phil</p>
<div>
<p class=3D"ox-bcb1e9c26f-MsoNormal">Sent from my iPhone</p>=
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"ox-bcb1e9c26f-MsoNormal"><br> <br></p>
<blockquote>
<p style=3D"margin-bottom: 12.0pt;" class=3D"ox-bcb1e9c26f-=
MsoNormal">On Nov 22, 2019, at 10:56 PM, Tony Drews <a href=3D"mailto:tony@t=
onydrews.com"><tony@tonydrews.com></a> wrote:</p>
</blockquote>
</div>
<blockquote>
<div>
<p class=3D"ox-bcb1e9c26f-MsoNormal"> <br></p>
<p>I run that setup, it was an uncle jack trick. Here=
's what he wrote about that (on my engine building tips page):</p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size: 13.5pt; font-family: 'Tahoma',=
sans-serif; color: black; background: white;">"I also like to strap the cent=
er main to add rigidity to the bottom end. To do this, mill off the ca=
st face of the main flush with the surfaces for the head bolts. Get a front s=
trap for a Chevy 400 block. You must enlarge the holes in the strap an=
d you must use longer bolts. Some builders feel that this is tot=
ally unnecessary, but since starting to do this, I have never had a main bea=
ring deteriorate faster than a rod bearing, which is something that happens m=
ore frequently than you would expect."</span></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"ox-bcb1e9c26f-MsoNormal">Regards, Tony Drews</=
p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"ox-bcb1e9c26f-MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"ox-bcb1e9c26f-MsoNormal">On 11/22/2019 3:58 PM=
, Phil Gott via Fot wrote:</p>
</div>
<blockquote>
<pre>Has anyone seen the need to add extra support to the c=
enter main on the TR wet sleeve engine? We have an engine that has a steel b=
ridge cross-bolted underneath and supporting the center main cap. Is this ne=
eded? Just took 3 factory cranks to the machine shop and all three were bent=
about .002 in (.002 run out at center main when supported on first and last=
mains.) Two of these were raced, the third was removed from a tired street e=
ngine. note: None of these cranks came out of the engine with extra support a=
t the center.
</pre>
<pre>Curious as to the need for the extra support.
</pre>
<pre>Thanks,
</pre>
<pre>Phil Gott
</pre>
<pre>114 TR4A
</pre>
<pre> =20
</pre>
<pre>Sent from my iPhone
</pre>
<pre>_______________________________________________
</pre>
<pre><a href=3D"mailto:fot@autox.team.net";>fot@autox.team.=
net</a>
</pre>
<pre> =20
</pre>
<pre><a href=3D"http://www.fot-racing.com";>http://www.fot-=
racing.com</a>
</pre>
<pre> =20
</pre>
<pre>Donate: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/donate.html";>h=
ttp://www.team.net/donate.html</a>
</pre>
<pre>Archive: <a href=3D"http://autox.team.net/archive";>ht=
tp://autox.team.net/archive</a> <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot=
">http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot</a>
</pre>
<pre>Unsubscribe/Manage: <a href=3D"http://autox.team.net/=
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s/fot/tony@tonydrews.com</a>
</pre>
<pre> =20
</pre>
<pre> =20
</pre>
<pre> =20
</pre>
</blockquote>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>_______________________________________________=20
<br> fot@autox.team.net=20
<br>=20
<br> http://www.fot-racing.com=20
<br>=20
<br> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html=20
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<br>=20
<br>
</div>
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<br>fot@autox.team.net=20
<br>=20
<br>http://www.fot-racing.com=20
<br>=20
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<br>=20
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</blockquote>
<div style=3D"font-size: 12pt; font-family: helvetica,arial,sans-serif; co=
lor: #333333;" class=3D"default-style">
<br>
</div>=20
=20
<span>_______________________________________________</span><br><span>fot@au=
tox.team.net</span><br><span></span><br><span>http://www.fot-racing.com</spa=
n><br><span></span><br><span>Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html</span><=
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--Apple-Mail-F4B696A5-B171-448D-A73C-589FAA7E81ED--
--===============7550826839275000359==
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_______________________________________________
fot@autox.team.net
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Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot
--===============7550826839275000359==--
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