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What about the chain? Is there noticeably more slach of it?=20
The chain tensioners do almost nothing . Sometimes there are deep grooves i=
n a short time, sometimes there is almost no scoring. Probably this is beca=
use of the chain running smoothly or with severe oscillations. Oscillations=
of the chain will have an influence on the ignition timing too.=20
Has anyone tried an alternative solution for the tensioner to keep the chai=
n quiet?=20
Marcel=20
Van: "fot" <fot@autox.team.net>=20
Aan: "Bob Kramer" <rkramer56@gmail.com>=20
Cc: "fot" <fot@autox.team.net>=20
Verzonden: Dinsdag 24 maart 2020 12:47:41=20
Onderwerp: Re: [Fot] Doug Still Guides Me...=20
Yes, Bob, as far as I know you are correct, the bearing notches in the caps=
and saddles are always on the same side.=20
In the TR wet sleeve engine, each cap is unique as to its position, so it s=
hould be really hard to mix them up.=20
Kas is right, however, in that in many engines it is good practice to mark =
each cap as to position and orientation, just to be sure.=20
I have had a wet sleeve block line bored just to true it up at ABT machine =
in Holliston, Mass. This creates two issues that must be addressed, both du=
e to the slight raising of the crank center line:=20
1) the clearance space of the top of the pistons needs to be checked to be =
sure there is no interference at TDC. Usually not a problem.=20
2) more of a problem is that the aluminum insert for the rear main seal may=
interfere with the block. This will become apparent when using the centeri=
ng tool, and can be addressed by filing down the area of the seal where it =
interferes. Do not file or alter any other surface, as this will compromise=
the ability of the seal to function and/or to hold correctly one of the af=
termarket rubber seals. Be careful also not to gouge the face of the alumin=
um seal where it mates with the flat surface of the block. Go slow and be c=
areful. It should all work as intended.=20
Phil Gott=20
Sent from my iPhone=20
On Mar 23, 2020, at 10:36 PM, Bob Kramer via Fot <fot@autox.team.net> wrote=
:=20
BQ_BEGIN
Don=E2=80=99t all the main bearing caps go in with bearing notches on the s=
ame side as the notches in the saddles in the block? Or is that just a TR4 =
thing?=20
Sent from my iPhone=20
BQ_BEGIN
On Mar 23, 2020, at 6:59 PM, Enquiries Road & Track via Fot <fot@autox.team=
.net> wrote:=20
BQ_END
BQ_BEGIN
firstly, are you 100% sure the caps are correctly fitted both round the rig=
ht way and in number order?=20
you need to decide if the caps are misaligned across the block or if the tu=
nnel is simply oval because the hole in in cap is too far up or down. this =
will need a combination of feel and measurement=20
if the alternative caps have a significant step to 1 side, so you will clea=
rly feel a ledge at the mating faces when they are tightened up=20
if the stap is very minor, like a few thousandths of an inch, then the face=
s of the cap are machined down to create an oval hole, then it it is align =
honed=20
if it is really bad, like many tens of thou, then you have to firstly move =
the cap sideways by machining the register on 1 side and peening it on the =
other, and effectively moving it sideways, followed by boring/honing=20
sometimes, the bolts are too neat a fit to allow this and if thats the case=
, its usually easier to find some other caps or make them=20
if the tunnel is simply an oval because the cap is too far up or down, this=
is usually easily fixed by facing the cap mating surfaces and reboring the=
tunnels=20
not all engine machine shop have a line borer...mine did not, so subcontrac=
ting the job is not uncommon=20
the end result should be a perfectly round hole with a super fine hone (cro=
ss-hatch) mark on the bearing faces, to ensure perfect bearing shell contac=
t=20
Terry=20
Australia=20
On Tue, Mar 24, 2020 at 1:32 AM Bud Rolofson via Fot < [ mailto:fot@autox.t=
eam.net | fot@autox.team.net ] > wrote:=20
BQ_BEGIN
Speaking of main caps I bought a block that turned out to not have the orig=
inal main caps. The caps on there did not match up with the block but I=E2=
=80=99ve been unable to find a machine shop that can machine them so there=
=E2=80=99s a round hole for the crank. The shop I had do my last block (and=
they do 427 race engines among others and are well respected) told me that=
the result would be ovaled out holes (not round) which obviously is not go=
od.=20
Certainly there=E2=80=99s a way to make this work but I haven=E2=80=99t fou=
nd it. I checked out another block shop but said they subcontract line-bori=
ng to the the shop that said they couldn=E2=80=99t do it.=20
Has anyone else encountered this problem? I=E2=80=99ve heard that steel mai=
ns might be an answer but they=E2=80=99d still have to be line-bored to mak=
e them match. I hate to ship a block to get this done before I have reassur=
ances that they can make it work but does anyone know of that has successfu=
lly made main caps match the block? Given I=E2=80=99m spending a lot of tim=
e these days staying home and catching up on car projects in the shop I fig=
ured it would be a good time to start building the next engine.=20
Solutions or recommendations?=20
Thanks=20
Bud=20
BQ_BEGIN
On Mar 22, 2020, at 9:33 PM, Brad Eells via Fot < [ mailto:fot@autox.team.n=
et | fot@autox.team.net ] > wrote:=20
Amici,=20
In typically rookie race engine builder mode with the block I selected for =
rebuild, I pulled the main bearing caps (with my new fancy DeWalt 20V Impac=
t Wrench) and then couldn't remember which way around they went.=20
This led to visions of catastrophic failure somewhere down the road. Yet, I=
had several other blocks I could flip over and make a determination if nee=
d be.=20
I was examining one of the caps when I discovered the faintest engraving on=
the surface of each cap:=20
Eng #2 Front Fwd=20
Eng #2 Mid Fwd=20
Eng #2 Rr Fwd=20
Doug Brown, my original owner/builder/driver extraordinaire had engraved ea=
ch cap for me to make sure a mistake didn't occur. He rotated 3 engines dur=
ing each season in a quest for Divisional and National Championships.=20
I guess that is the way a aeronautical/mechanical engineer and very success=
ful racer thinks.=20
Thanks again Doug!=20
<IMG_8745.jpg>=20
Cheers,=20
Brad Eells=20
Chino CA=20
#72 FP 1969 Triumph Spitfire Mk3=20
#35 DP 1962 Triumph TR4=20
1965 Triumph TR4A IRS...for the road!=20
_______________________________________________=20
[ mailto:fot@autox.team.net | fot@autox.team.net ]=20
[ http://www.fot-racing.com/ | http://www.fot-racing.com ]=20
]=20
Archive: [ http://autox.team.net/archive | http://autox.team.net/archive ] =
[ http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot | http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot ]=
=20
mcast.net | http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/levilevi@comcast.net =
]=20
BQ_END
Bud Rolofson=20
Extreme Parts Racing (more than just a haircut)=20
71TR6 CC57365 (Good 6)=20
71 Spitfire MK IV Race Car #3=20
69 Spitfire MK III (back up FE engine/dinghy car)=20
93 Minnie Winnie Race Support Vehicle=20
77 Z-50A Hardly Davidson Honda Mini-Trail Bike (Triumph Pit Bike)=20
_______________________________________________=20
[ mailto:fot@autox.team.net | fot@autox.team.net ]=20
[ http://www.fot-racing.com/ | http://www.fot-racing.com ]=20
]=20
Archive: [ http://autox.team.net/archive | http://autox.team.net/archive ] =
[ http://www.team.net/pipermail/fotUnsubscribe/Manage | http://www.team.net=
/pipermail/fot
s@roadandtrack.net.au | http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/enquiries=
@roadandtrack.net.au ]=20
BQ_END
_______________________________________________=20
fot@autox.team.net=20
http://www.fot-racing.com=20
Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot=20
il.com=20
BQ_END
_______________________________________________=20
fot@autox.team.net=20
http://www.fot-racing.com=20
Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot=20
com=20
BQ_END
_______________________________________________=20
fot@autox.team.net=20
http://www.fot-racing.com=20
Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot=20
arcel@telenet.be=20
--=_ab862a2b-e097-4fe2-a491-59320fc6c933
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<html><body><div style=3D"font-family: Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-seri=
f; font-size: 10pt; color: #000000"><div>What about the chain? Is there not=
iceably more slach of it?</div><div>The chain tensioners do almost nothing =
. Sometimes there are deep grooves in a short time, sometimes there is almo=
st no scoring. Probably this is because of the chain running smoothly or wi=
th severe oscillations. Oscillations of the chain will have an influence on=
the ignition timing too.</div><div>Has anyone tried an alternative solutio=
n for the tensioner to keep the chain quiet?</div><div>Marcel</div><div><br=
></div><hr id=3D"zwchr" data-marker=3D"__DIVIDER__"><div data-marker=3D"__H=
EADERS__"><b>Van: </b>"fot" <fot@autox.team.net><br><b>Aan: </b>"Bob =
Kramer" <rkramer56@gmail.com><br><b>Cc: </b>"fot" <fot@autox.team.=
net><br><b>Verzonden: </b>Dinsdag 24 maart 2020 12:47:41<br><b>Onderwerp=
: </b>Re: [Fot] Doug Still Guides Me...<br></div><div><br></div><div data-m=
arker=3D"__QUOTED_TEXT__">Yes, Bob, as far as I know you are correct, the b=
earing notches in the caps and saddles are always on the same side. <d=
iv>In the TR wet sleeve engine, each cap is unique as to its position, so i=
t should be really hard to mix them up.</div><div>Kas is right, however, in=
that in many engines it is good practice to mark each cap as to position a=
nd orientation, just to be sure.</div><div>I have had a wet sleeve block li=
ne bored just to true it up at ABT machine in Holliston, Mass. This creates=
two issues that must be addressed, both due to the slight raising of the c=
rank center line:</div><div>1) the clearance space of the top of the piston=
s needs to be checked to be sure there is no interference at TDC. Usually n=
ot a problem.</div><div>2) more of a problem is that the aluminum insert fo=
r the rear main seal may interfere with the block. This will become apparen=
t when using the centering tool, and can be addressed by filing down the ar=
ea of the seal where it interferes. Do not file or alter any other surface,=
as this will compromise the ability of the seal to function and/or to hold=
correctly one of the aftermarket rubber seals. Be careful also not t=
o gouge the face of the aluminum seal where it mates with the flat surface =
of the block. Go slow and be careful. It should all work as intended.</div>=
<div>Phil Gott</div><div><br><br><div dir=3D"ltr">Sent from my iPhone</div>=
<div dir=3D"ltr"><br><blockquote>On Mar 23, 2020, at 10:36 PM, Bob Kramer v=
ia Fot <fot@autox.team.net> wrote:<br><br></blockquote></div><blockqu=
ote><div dir=3D"ltr">Don=E2=80=99t all the main bearing caps go in with bea=
ring notches on the same side as the notches in the saddles in the block? O=
r is that just a TR4 thing?<br><br><div dir=3D"ltr">Sent from my iPhone</di=
v><div dir=3D"ltr"><br><blockquote>On Mar 23, 2020, at 6:59 PM, Enquiries R=
oad & Track via Fot <fot@autox.team.net> wrote:<br><br></blockquo=
te></div><blockquote><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr">firstly, are you 100=
% sure the caps are correctly fitted both round the right way and in number=
order?<br><div>you need to decide if the caps are misaligned across the bl=
ock or if the tunnel is simply oval because the hole in in cap is too =
far up or down. this will need a combination of feel and measurement<br><br=
><div><div>if the alternative caps have a significant step to 1 side, =
so you will clearly feel a ledge at the mating faces when they are tightene=
d up<br></div><div><br><div>if the stap is very minor, like a few thousandt=
hs of an inch, then the faces of the cap are machined down to create a=
n oval hole, then it it is align honed</div><br><div>if it is really bad, l=
ike many tens of thou, then you have to firstly move the cap sideways by ma=
chining the register on 1 side and peening it on the other, and effect=
ively moving it sideways, followed by boring/honing</div><br><div>sometimes=
, the bolts are too neat a fit to allow this and if thats the case, its usu=
ally easier to find some other caps or make them</div><br><div>if the tunne=
l is simply an oval because the cap is too far up or down, this i=
s usually easily fixed by facing the cap mating surfaces and reboring the t=
unnels</div><br><div>not all engine machine shop have a line borer...mine d=
id not, so subcontracting the job is not uncommon</div><br><div>the end res=
ult should be a perfectly round hole with a super fine hone (cross-hatch) m=
ark on the bearing faces, to ensure perfect bearing shell contact=
</div><br><div> Terry</div><div>Australia</div><br><div><div><div dir=
=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><div dir=3D"ltr"><div>=
<div dir=3D"ltr"><div><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div></di=
v></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><br></d=
iv></div></div></div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" =
class=3D"gmail_attr">On Tue, Mar 24, 2020 at 1:32 AM Bud Rolofson via Fot &=
lt;<a href=3D"mailto:fot@autox.team.net"; target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"nofollow =
noopener noreferrer">fot@autox.team.net</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote=
class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px so=
lid rgb( 204 , 204 , 204 );padding-left:1ex"><div>Speaking of main caps I b=
ought a block that turned out to not have the original main caps. The caps =
on there did not match up with the block but I=E2=80=99ve been unable to fi=
nd a machine shop that can machine them so there=E2=80=99s a round hole for=
the crank. The shop I had do my last block (and they do 427 race engines a=
mong others and are well respected) told me that the result would be ovaled=
out holes (not round) which obviously is not good.<div>Certainly there=E2=
=80=99s a way to make this work but I haven=E2=80=99t found it. I checked o=
ut another block shop but said they subcontract line-boring to the the shop=
that said they couldn=E2=80=99t do it. </div><br><div>Has anyone else=
encountered this problem? I=E2=80=99ve heard that steel mains might be an =
answer but they=E2=80=99d still have to be line-bored to make them match. I=
hate to ship a block to get this done before I have reassurances that they=
can make it work but does anyone know of that has successfully made main c=
aps match the block? Given I=E2=80=99m spending a lot of time these days st=
aying home and catching up on car projects in the shop I figured it would b=
e a good time to start building the next engine.</div><br><div>Solutions or=
recommendations?</div><br><div>Thanks</div><div>Bud<br><br><div> <br>=
<div><blockquote><div>On Mar 22, 2020, at 9:33 PM, Brad Eells via Fot <<=
a href=3D"mailto:fot@autox.team.net"; target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"nofollow noop=
ener noreferrer">fot@autox.team.net</a>> wrote:</div><br><div><div dir=
=3D"ltr">Amici,<br><div>In typically rookie race engine builder mode with t=
he block I selected for rebuild, I pulled the main bearing caps (with my ne=
w fancy DeWalt 20V Impact Wrench) and then couldn't remember which way arou=
nd they went. </div><br><div>This led to visions of catastrophic failu=
re somewhere down the road. Yet, I had several other blocks I could flip ov=
er and make a determination if need be.</div><br><div>I was examining one o=
f the caps when I discovered the faintest engraving on the surface of each =
cap:<br><br>Eng #2 Front Fwd</div><div>Eng #2 Mid Fwd</div><div>Eng #2 Rr F=
wd</div><br><div>Doug Brown, my original owner/builder/driver extraordinair=
e had engraved each cap for me to make sure a mistake didn't occur. He rota=
ted 3 engines during each season in a quest for Divisional and National Cha=
mpionships.</div><br><div>I guess that is the way a aeronautical/mechanical=
engineer and very successful racer thinks.</div><br><div>Thanks again=
Doug!</div><br><div><div><span id=3D"gmail-m_-3422984220944576185gmail-m_2=
395422064748517556cid:ii_k83wus460"><IMG_8745.jpg></span><br></div><b=
r><div>Cheers,</div><br><br><div><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><di=
v dir=3D"ltr"><div><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div =
dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"=
ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><div style=3D"font-size:12.8px"=
><b>Brad Eells</b></div><div style=3D"font-size:12.8px"><b>Chino CA</b></di=
v><div style=3D"font-size:12.8px"><b>#72 FP 1969 Triumph Spitfire Mk3</b></=
div><div style=3D"font-size:12.8px"><b>#35 DP 1962 Triumph TR4</b></div><di=
v style=3D"font-size:12.8px"><b>1965 Triumph TR4A IRS...for the road!</b><b=
r></div></div><div style=3D"font-size:12.8px"><b><img width=3D"96" height=
=3D"94" src=3D"https://docs.google.com/uc?export=3Ddownload&id=3D1HyYLx=
a1_Lz_Q0kLM3GRJryNDgfOwZyUc&revid=3D0B9vVTDWaFCqFVmR6Q1FsMExZTHVLcHpja3=
BpSC9ucGcveHdJPQ"><br></b></div><br></div></div></div></div></div></div></d=
iv></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div>
_______________________________________________<br><a href=3D"mailto:fot@au=
tox.team.net" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"nofollow noopener noreferrer">fot@au=
tox.team.net</a><br><br><a href=3D"http://www.fot-racing.com"; target=3D"_bl=
ank" rel=3D"nofollow noopener noreferrer">http://www.fot-racing.com</a><br>=
<br>Donate: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/donate.html"; target=3D"_blank" r=
el=3D"nofollow noopener noreferrer">http://www.team.net/donate.html</a><br>=
Archive: <a href=3D"http://autox.team.net/archive"; target=3D"_blank" rel=3D=
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net/mailman/options/fot/levilevi@comcast.net</a><br><br><br></div></blockqu=
ote></div><br><div>
Bud Rolofson<br><br>Extreme Parts Racing (more than just a haircut)<br=
><br>71TR6 CC57365 (Good 6)<br>71 Spitfire MK IV Race Car #3<br>6=
9 Spitfire MK III (back up FE engine/dinghy car)<br>93 Minnie Winnie R=
ace Support Vehicle <br>77 Z-50A Hardly Davidson Honda Mini-=
Trail Bike (Triumph Pit Bike)
</div>
<br></div></div></div>_______________________________________________<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:fot@autox.team.net"; target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"nofollow noo=
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</blockquote></div>
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