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Well stated Kees. ISO certified only means that the company follows a
defined process repeatedly! If the process is poor to begin with, the
product will continue to be poor. Inherently, there is always a desire for
on-going improvement but it is not the primary goal of ISO certification;
only that your process is repeatable. And that is the great con that has
been served on the public.
John R, BN2, AN5
From: Healeys [mailto:healeys-bounces@autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Oudesluys
Sent: March-02-15 7:11 AM
To: healeys@autox.team.net
Subject: Re: [Healeys] Water Pumps
So much for ISO standards.
Also approval by a e.g. renowned German institute (or others for that
matter) is no guaranty for decent quality. I have been engaged in consumer
research for a long time and often these approved articles were the worst in
the test.
At some stage we had tested brake pads and found that one of the worst pads
claimed to be approved by this institute to meet EU standards for
replacement pads, roughly within 15% of the original spec. The pads were way
out. It took me months before this institute handed over the paper work
which showed that the only test they did was a check that the car with the
replacement pads stopped within the legal limit which does not even begin to
meet the original factory specs. Same story with hydraulic jacks. Even
German law specifies a safety valve, none of the approved jacks had one etc.
etc. Our conclusion was more or less that if an article had an approval of
this institute it is probably rubbish.
Kees Oudesluijs
Larry Varley schreef op 2-3-2015 om 13:11:
Anyone out there that has been in Q.A. systems will understand that Q.A does
not mean the product produced is of high quality. It simply means that the
crap produced is all crap within a defined limit.
Regards
Larry Varley
On 2/03/2015 8:31 PM, J Armour wrote:
My experience with asian engineering products is that most small volume
suppliers ( by their standards ) do not understand why we are obsessed with
all this Quality stuff. After all look at some of the images we see of
equipment they find acceptable to continue using.
But in my case they can produce items to a required standard and this can be
achieved at a price if 'we' have our inspectors on site. When the old
sub-contract a local representative ( on cost basis ) there becomes the
issue of who is paying whom for the acceptance of our goods? Local
inspectors I suspect have greater loyalty to the terms of payment from an
local asian company who will give then regular payments rather than a
'small' purchaser from , in my case Australia. Subcontracting relies on my
piece of paper and its terms makes someone else responsible.
Check on Google for the lastest supply problem and health problems with
Chinese berries -- all having passed Chinese and Australian standards of
food preparation. The ultimate responsibility was probably passed down to a
farmer who still uses toilet waste for his fertiliser while a whole range of
businessmen sit on their QA certificates.
The company I worked for made a lot of money correcting the cheaper from
overseas items bought into the country with Q.A. And Inspection documents
supporting the goods to be ' as per order'.
Some time ago in China I saw lightbulbs being assembled in a converted cow
shed and I could hardly see the process as the shed had only one 40 watt
lightbulb. They also had a pile of bicycle brake assembles laying on the
ground. Another visit I was show around a major mining engineering workshop
and there was a 250 mm bore very expensive roller bearing siting on the
floor uncovered and with a layer of dust on and in the bearing. Their
solution was we will wipe it over before installation and then have a
bearing where we previously did not have a bearing = success!!!
_______________________________________________
Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/healeys
http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/healeys/varley@cosmos.net.au
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com <http://www.avg.com>
Version: 2015.0.5751 / Virus Database: 4299/9209 - Release Date: 03/01/15
_______________________________________________
Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/healeys
http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/healeys/coudesluijs@chello.nl
Geen virus gevonden in dit bericht.
Gecontroleerd door AVG - www.avg.com <http://www.avg.com>
Versie: 2015.0.5751 / Virusdatabase: 4299/9211 - datum van uitgifte:
03/02/15
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lang=3DEN-CA link=3Dblue vlink=3Dpurple><div class=3DWordSection1><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;=
mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Well stated Kees. ISO certified only means =
that the company follows a defined process repeatedly! If the process is =
poor to begin with, the product will continue to be poor. Inherently, =
there is always a desire for on-going improvement but it is not the =
primary goal of ISO certification; only that your process is repeatable. =
And that is the great con that has been served on the =
public.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;=
mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'=
>John R, BN2, AN5<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;=
mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowte=
xt'>From:</span></b><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowte=
xt'> Healeys [mailto:healeys-bounces@autox.team.net] <b>On Behalf Of =
</b>Oudesluys<br><b>Sent:</b> March-02-15 7:11 AM<br><b>To:</b> =
healeys@autox.team.net<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Healeys] Water =
Pumps<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal>So much =
for ISO standards.<br>Also approval by a e.g. renowned German institute =
(or others for that matter) is no guaranty for decent quality. I have =
been engaged in consumer research for a long time and often these =
approved articles were the worst in the test.<br>At some stage we had =
tested brake pads and found that one of the worst pads claimed to be =
approved by this institute to meet EU standards for replacement pads, =
roughly within 15% of the original spec. The pads were way out. It took =
me months before this institute handed over the paper work which showed =
that the only test they did was a check that the car with the =
replacement pads stopped within the legal limit which does not even =
begin to meet the original factory specs. Same story with hydraulic =
jacks. Even German law specifies a safety valve, none of the approved =
jacks had one etc. etc. Our conclusion was more or less that if an =
article had an approval of this institute it is probably =
rubbish.<br>Kees Oudesluijs<br><br><br>Larry Varley schreef op 2-3-2015 =
om 13:11:<o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'>Anyone out there that has been in Q.A. =
systems will understand that Q.A does not mean the product produced is =
of high quality. It simply means that the crap produced is all crap =
within a defined limit.<br>Regards<br>Larry =
Varley<br><br><o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal>On 2/03/2015 8:31 =
PM, J Armour wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>My experience with asian engineering products is that =
most small volume suppliers ( by their standards ) do not =
understand why we are obsessed with all this Quality stuff. After all =
look at some of the images we see of equipment they find acceptable to =
continue using.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal>But in my =
case they can produce items to a required standard and this can be =
achieved at a price if 'we' have our inspectors on site. When the old =
sub-contract a local representative ( on cost basis ) there becomes the =
issue of who is paying whom for the acceptance of our goods? Local =
inspectors I suspect have greater loyalty to the terms of payment from =
an local asian company who will give then regular payments rather =
than a 'small' purchaser from , in my case Australia. Subcontracting =
relies on my piece of paper and its terms makes someone else =
responsible.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal>Check on =
Google for the lastest supply problem and health problems with Chinese =
berries -- all having passed Chinese and Australian standards of =
food preparation. The ultimate responsibility was probably passed down =
to a farmer who still uses toilet waste for his fertiliser while a whole =
range of businessmen sit on their QA =
certificates.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>The company I worked for made a lot of money =
correcting the cheaper from overseas items bought into the country with =
Q.A. And Inspection documents supporting the goods to be ' as per =
order'.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Some time ago in China I saw lightbulbs being =
assembled in a converted cow shed and I could hardly see the process as =
the shed had only one 40 watt lightbulb. They also had a pile of =
bicycle brake assembles laying on the ground. Another visit I was show =
around a major mining engineering workshop and there was a 250 mm bore =
very expensive roller bearing siting on the floor uncovered and with a =
layer of dust on and in the bearing. Their solution was we will wipe it =
over before installation and then have a bearing where we previously did =
not have a bearing =3D success!!!<o:p></o:p></p></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><br><br><br><o:p></o:p></p><pre>_______________________=
________________________<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>Support Team.Net <a =
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</o:p></pre><pre>Forums: <a =
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o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre><a =
href=3D"mailto:Healeys@autox.team.net";>Healeys@autox.team.net</a><o:p></o=
:p></pre><pre><a =
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<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><br><br><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>No virus =
found in this message.<br>Checked by AVG - <a =
href=3D"http://www.avg.com";>www.avg.com</a><br>Version: 2015.0.5751 / =
Virus Database: 4299/9209 - Release Date: =
03/01/15<o:p></o:p></p></blockquote><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><br><br><br><br><o:p></o:p></p><pre>___________________=
____________________________<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>Support Team.Net <a =
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a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><br><br><br><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Geen virus =
gevonden in dit bericht.<br>Gecontroleerd door AVG - <a =
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