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I always thought that if a Pertronix goes it goes completely, not stop and =
go. I could be wrong, but this is what I have been told many times.tom
----- Original Message -----
From: Jonathan Einhorn <einhornlawoffice@gmail.com>
To: Michael Oritt <michael.oritt@gmail.com>
Cc: Austin Healey <healeys@autox.team.net>
Sent: Wed, 20 Mar 2019 05:08:09 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: [Healeys] Car dies suddenly
Two things that have caused this to happen to me: one was a bad rotor and t=
he other was my PetronixJon
Sent from my iPhone
On Mar 19, 2019, at 10:07 PM, Michael Oritt <michael.oritt@gmail.com> wrote=
:
Hi Michael--
Firstly my condolences to you and your countrymen for the terrible event th=
at happened last week. =20
As to the B/W wire's being the culprit I tore it out long ago and replaced =
the stock cutoff switch with a superior marine unit with plated contacts, s=
o scratch that as a cause. As I posted elsewhere I am hoping to actually f=
ind the definite issue such as a defective component or a failing connectio=
n, etc. rather than launching into replacing coils, changing disty's etc. a=
nd then waiting for something or nothing to happen. I'll start by going th=
rough the ignition circuit beginning with the key switch and see if I can f=
ind the offending bit, etc. If no luck then I'll start on the Mallory Unil=
ite which, being an electronic system (Hall Effect?) , has no condenser.
Thanks for the input and we'll stay in touch--Michael
On Tue, Mar 19, 2019 at 9:34 PM Michael Salter <michael.salter@gmail.com> w=
rote:
Hi Michael,
100's do have the master switch grounding wire to the master switch so it m=
ight well be worth checking.The symptoms sound very similar to those I enco=
untered with a faulty coil. Mine would run for about 30 minutes fairly cons=
istently before suddenly dying.=20
Even when the engine would not start the bad coil still produced a signific=
ant spark each time the open points were shorted with a screwdriver which I=
at the time, mistakenly, felt confirmed that the coil was actually okay .=
.. it wasn't.
I was only able to confirm that the villain was in fact the coil by install=
ing a replacement.I have encountered very similar symptoms with a faulty co=
ndenser which was confirmed by spraying it sparingly with ether to cool it =
down and then finding that the engine started immediately.As I'm sure you a=
re aware a fuel delivery problem never causes the engine to stop dead ... i=
t typically sort of peters out!!
I would recommend trying the condenser trick and then, if a regular coil c=
an be used as a substitute for the Mallory try a substitution.
M
I wonder where the term "peters out" comes from ... Google time.
On Wed, Mar 20, 2019 at 2:13 PM <simon.lachlan@alexarevel.plus.com> wrote:
I=E2=80=99m presuming that the car=E2=80=99s a 100? You make reference to 4=
plugs=E2=80=A6..Do 100s have the dreaded white wire from the on/off switch=
in the boot? Do 100s have the switch even? Anyhow, that wire shorting out =
has caused endless tears.Or is it a black/white wire?Worth a look.Simon Fro=
m: Healeys <healeys-bounces@autox.team.net> On Behalf Of Michael Oritt
Sent: 19 March 2019 17:46
To: Austin Healey <healeys@autox.team.net>
Subject: [Healeys] Car dies suddenly Yesterday morning I went out for a dri=
ve and after about five miles the car suddenly died. There was no rough run=
ning, sputtering or missing leading up to it=E2=80=94the car simply died. I=
coasted to the side of the road and after about 30 seconds since the key w=
as still on I pushed the start button. To my surprise the car started immed=
iately, revved freely and idled smoothly. A bit perplexed I decided to driv=
e on to see what would happen now that I was paying close attention. The ca=
r accelerated smoothly and ran fine for about 1/2 mile and then it died aga=
in in the same manner as earlier. I shut off the key, popped the hood and e=
xamined the ignition system. Everything seemed fine=E2=80=94all spark plug =
leads were firmly in place as was the lead from the coil to the distributor=
. The power wires to the coil were tight and the harness/connector to the d=
istributor (see below) seemed fine.
After scratching my head for a couple of minutes I got in the car, turned o=
n the ignition and pushed the start button. Again, the car started right up=
and ran normally. With fingers crossed I headed for my shop/garage, about =
ten miles away and got there without any further event. Though the problem =
did not seem to be fuel related I decided to verify that this was not a fue=
l delivery issue. I have a double-headed SU fuel pump wired to a switch mou=
nted just behind the driver=E2=80=99s seat which allows me to switch betwee=
n pumps as well as turn the fuel pump off. While I was running the car at h=
ighway speeds it ran perfectly on either pump and when I selected the =E2=
=80=9Coff=E2=80=9D position it slowly lost power as I expected it to=E2=80=
=94but in no way like it had suddenly twice died 15 or so minutes earlier. =
This indicated I was not dealing with a fuel issue but rather something rel=
ated either to the ignition system or to the primary wires that run to it.=
=20
This morning I dove a bit deeper to try and diagnose the problem. The car h=
as a Mallory Unilite ignition system tied to an MSD coil which has been in =
place and performed faultlessly for a number of years. I removed the distri=
butor cap and everything appears to be okay, at least visually. The interio=
r of the distributor was clean and dry as was the cap, leads, carbon contac=
t, optical reader, etc. Mallory specifies the use of a ballast resistor in =
the lead from the power source to the coil and with the engine fast-idling =
I tested 12.5 VDC to the resistor and about 5.5-6 VDC out of it and at the =
positive coil terminal.=20
I have a large low-oil pressure light that is mounted in the dash in place =
of the original overdrive switch. It is wired from the ignition switch thro=
ugh a 10 psi normally-closed switch mounted in the oil pressure gauge sende=
r line and then to the light. I point this out because both times when the =
engine shut down yesterday the light immediately came on, from which I conc=
lude that the ignition switch itself is not the source of the problem. And =
though I did not remove the ignition key switch the wires to and from it se=
em tight and intact.
So my question is: What do I do? I hate to throw parts at it without findin=
g something that appears to be defective but I don=E2=80=99t know where to =
start any further tests, etc. I also don=E2=80=99t want to simply wait for =
the issue to happen again. BTW over the weekend I drove about 150 miles wit=
h no issues whatever. Beyond installing four new plugs last week I have not=
performed any work related to the ignition system. All suggestions/questio=
ns welcome=E2=80=A6. Best--Michael Oritt, BN1______________________________=
_________________
Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/healeyshttp://autox.team.net/archive
Healeys@autox.team.net
http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/healeys
lter@gmail.com
_______________________________________________
Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/healeyshttp://autox.team.net/archive
Healeys@autox.team.net
http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/healeys
woffice@gmail.com
--=_5ef294ee-4fb0-4ea9-b1a9-eb316e9dfe1a
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<html><head><style> body {height: 100%; color:#000000; font-size:12pt; font=
-family:arial, helvetica, sans-serif;}</style></head><body><div>I always th=
ought that if a Pertronix goes it goes completely, not stop and go. I=
could be wrong, but this is what I have been told many times.</div><div>to=
m</div><div><br></div><div>----- Original Message -----<br>From: Jonathan E=
inhorn <einhornlawoffice@gmail.com><br>To: Michael Oritt <michael.=
oritt@gmail.com><br>Cc: Austin Healey <healeys@autox.team.net><br>=
Sent: Wed, 20 Mar 2019 05:08:09 -0400 (EDT)<br>Subject: Re: [Healeys] Car d=
ies suddenly<br></div><div><br></div><div>Two things that have caused this =
to happen to me: one was a bad rotor and the other was my Petronix</div><di=
v id=3D"AppleMailSignature">Jon<br><div><br></div>Sent from my iPhone</div>=
<div><br>On Mar 19, 2019, at 10:07 PM, Michael Oritt <<a href=3D"mailto:=
michael.oritt@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank" data-mce-href=3D"mailto:michael.=
oritt@gmail.com">michael.oritt@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br><div><br></div><=
/div><blockquote><div><div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=
=3D"color: #3333ff;" data-mce-style=3D"color: #3333ff;">Hi Michael--</div><=
div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"color: #3333ff;" data-mce-style=3D"col=
or: #3333ff;"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"color: #3333f=
f;" data-mce-style=3D"color: #3333ff;">Firstly my condolences to you and yo=
ur countrymen for the terrible event that happened last week. </=
div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"color: #3333ff;" data-mce-style=
=3D"color: #3333ff;"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"color:=
#3333ff;" data-mce-style=3D"color: #3333ff;">As to the B/W wire's being th=
e culprit I tore it out long ago and replaced the stock cutoff switch with =
a superior marine unit with plated contacts, so scratch that as a cause.&nb=
sp; As I posted elsewhere I am hoping to actually find the definite issue s=
uch as a defective component or a failing connection, etc. rather than laun=
ching into replacing coils, changing disty's etc. and then waiting for some=
thing or nothing to happen. I'll start by going through the ignition =
circuit beginning with the key switch and see if I can find the offending b=
it, etc. If no luck then I'll start on the Mallory Unilite which, bei=
ng an electronic system (Hall Effect?) , has no condenser.</div><div class=
=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"color: #3333ff;" data-mce-style=3D"color: #3333=
ff;"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"color: #3333ff;" data-=
mce-style=3D"color: #3333ff;">Thanks for the input and we'll stay in touch-=
-Michael</div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=
=3D"gmail_attr">On Tue, Mar 19, 2019 at 9:34 PM Michael Salter <<a href=
=3D"mailto:michael.salter@gmail.com"; target=3D"_blank" data-mce-href=3D"mai=
lto:michael.salter@gmail.com">michael.salter@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br></=
div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; b=
order-left: 1px solid #cccccc; padding-left: 1ex;" data-mce-style=3D"margin=
: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid #cccccc; padding-left: 1ex;"><d=
iv dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family: 'comic sa=
ns ms',sans-serif; font-size: small;" data-mce-style=3D"font-family: 'comic=
sans ms',sans-serif; font-size: small;">Hi Michael,<br></div><div class=3D=
"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family: 'comic sans ms',sans-serif; font-size=
: small;" data-mce-style=3D"font-family: 'comic sans ms',sans-serif; font-s=
ize: small;">100's do have the master switch grounding wire to the master s=
witch so it might well be worth checking.</div><div class=3D"gmail_default"=
style=3D"font-family: 'comic sans ms',sans-serif; font-size: small;" data-=
mce-style=3D"font-family: 'comic sans ms',sans-serif; font-size: small;">Th=
e symptoms sound very similar to those I encountered with a faulty coil. Mi=
ne would run for about 30 minutes fairly consistently before suddenly dying=
. <br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family: 'comic sans =
ms',sans-serif; font-size: small;" data-mce-style=3D"font-family: 'comic sa=
ns ms',sans-serif; font-size: small;">Even when the engine would not start =
the bad coil still produced a significant spark each time the open points w=
ere shorted with a screwdriver which I at the time, mistakenly, felt =
confirmed that the coil was actually okay ... it wasn't.<br></div><div clas=
s=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family: 'comic sans ms',sans-serif; font-=
size: small;" data-mce-style=3D"font-family: 'comic sans ms',sans-serif; fo=
nt-size: small;">I was only able to confirm that the villain was in fact th=
e coil by installing a replacement.</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=
=3D"font-family: 'comic sans ms',sans-serif; font-size: small;" data-mce-st=
yle=3D"font-family: 'comic sans ms',sans-serif; font-size: small;">I have e=
ncountered very similar symptoms with a faulty condenser which was confirme=
d by spraying it sparingly with ether to cool it down and then finding that=
the engine started immediately.</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D=
"font-family: 'comic sans ms',sans-serif; font-size: small;" data-mce-style=
=3D"font-family: 'comic sans ms',sans-serif; font-size: small;">As I'm sure=
you are aware a fuel delivery problem never causes the engine to stop dead=
... it typically sort of peters out!!<br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default=
" style=3D"font-family: 'comic sans ms',sans-serif; font-size: small;" data=
-mce-style=3D"font-family: 'comic sans ms',sans-serif; font-size: small;">&=
nbsp;I would recommend trying the condenser trick and then, if a regular co=
il can be used as a substitute for the Mallory try a substitution.</div><di=
v class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family: 'comic sans ms',sans-serif;=
font-size: small;" data-mce-style=3D"font-family: 'comic sans ms',sans-ser=
if; font-size: small;"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font=
-family: 'comic sans ms',sans-serif; font-size: small;" data-mce-style=3D"f=
ont-family: 'comic sans ms',sans-serif; font-size: small;">M</div><div clas=
s=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family: 'comic sans ms',sans-serif; font-=
size: small;" data-mce-style=3D"font-family: 'comic sans ms',sans-serif; fo=
nt-size: small;"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-famil=
y: 'comic sans ms',sans-serif; font-size: small;" data-mce-style=3D"font-fa=
mily: 'comic sans ms',sans-serif; font-size: small;">I wonder where the ter=
m "peters out" comes from ... Google time.<br></div><div class=3D"gmail_def=
ault" style=3D"font-family: 'comic sans ms',sans-serif; font-size: small;" =
data-mce-style=3D"font-family: 'comic sans ms',sans-serif; font-size: small=
;"><br></div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D=
"gmail_attr">On Wed, Mar 20, 2019 at 2:13 PM <<a href=3D"mailto:simon.la=
chlan@alexarevel.plus.com" target=3D"_blank" data-mce-href=3D"mailto:simon.=
lachlan@alexarevel.plus.com">simon.lachlan@alexarevel.plus.com</a>> wrot=
e:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0px 0px 0px =
0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid #cccccc; padding-left: 1ex;" data-mce-style=
=3D"margin: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid #cccccc; padding-left=
: 1ex;"><div lang=3D"EN-GB"><div class=3D"gmail-m_-789276802690414559gmail-=
m_3595661642997666392WordSection1"><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span>I=E2=80=99m=
presuming that the car=E2=80=99s a 100? You make reference to 4 plugs=E2=
=80=A6..<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span>Do 100s have =
the dreaded white wire from the on/off switch in the boot? Do 100s have the=
switch even? Anyhow, that wire shorting out has caused endless tears.<u></=
u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span>Or is it a black/white wir=
e?<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span>Worth a look.<u></u=
><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span>Simon<u></u><u></u></span><=
/p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class=3D"=
MsoNormal"><b><span lang=3D"EN-US">From:</span></b><span lang=3D"EN-US"> He=
aleys <<a href=3D"mailto:healeys-bounces@autox.team.net"; target=3D"_blan=
k" data-mce-href=3D"mailto:healeys-bounces@autox.team.net";>healeys-bounces@=
autox.team.net</a>> <b>On Behalf Of </b>Michael Oritt<br><b>Sent:</b> 19=
March 2019 17:46<br><b>To:</b> Austin Healey <<a href=3D"mailto:healeys=
@autox.team.net" target=3D"_blank" data-mce-href=3D"mailto:healeys@autox.te=
am.net">healeys@autox.team.net</a>><br><b>Subject:</b> [Healeys] Car die=
s suddenly<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u> <u><=
/u></p><div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; fon=
t-family: Verdana,sans-serif; color: #333333; background: none 0% 0% repeat=
scroll #fafafa;" data-mce-style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana,s=
ans-serif; color: #333333; background: none 0% 0% repeat scroll #fafafa;">Y=
esterday morning I went out for a drive and after about five miles the car =
suddenly died. There was no rough running, sputtering or missing leading up=
to it=E2=80=94the car simply died. I coasted to the side of the road and a=
fter about 30 seconds since the key was still on I pushed the start button.=
To my surprise the car started immediately, revved freely and idled smooth=
ly. A bit perplexed I decided to drive on to see what would happen now that=
I was paying close attention. The car accelerated smoothly and ran fine fo=
r about 1/2 mile and then it died again in the same manner as earlier. I sh=
ut off the key, popped the hood and examined the ignition system. Everythin=
g seemed fine=E2=80=94all spark plug leads were firmly in place as was the =
lead from the coil to the distributor. The power wires to the coil were tig=
ht and the harness/connector to the distributor (see below) seemed fine.</s=
pan><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana,sans-serif; color:=
#333333;" data-mce-style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana,sans-ser=
if; color: #333333;"><br></span></p><div><br></div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><=
span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana,sans-serif; color: #333=
333;" data-mce-style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana,sans-serif; c=
olor: #333333;"><br><span style=3D"background: none 0% 0% repeat scroll #fa=
fafa;" data-mce-style=3D"background: none 0% 0% repeat scroll #fafafa;">Aft=
er scratching my head for a couple of minutes I got in the car, turned on t=
he ignition and pushed the start button. Again, the car started right up an=
d ran normally. With fingers crossed I headed for my shop/garage, about ten=
miles away and got there without any further event. Though the problem did=
not seem to be fuel related I decided to verify that this was not a fuel d=
elivery issue. I have a double-headed SU fuel pump wired to a switch mounte=
d just behind the driver=E2=80=99s seat which allows me to switch between p=
umps as well as turn the fuel pump off. While I was running the car at high=
way speeds it ran perfectly on either pump and when I selected the =E2=80=
=9Coff=E2=80=9D position it slowly lost power as I expected it to=E2=80=94b=
ut in no way like it had suddenly twice died 15 or so minutes earlier. This=
indicated I was not dealing with a fuel issue but rather something related=
either to the ignition system or to the primary wires that run to it. =
;</span><br></span></p><div><br></div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D=
"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana,sans-serif; color: #333333;" data-mc=
e-style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana,sans-serif; color: #333333=
;"><br><span style=3D"background: none 0% 0% repeat scroll #fafafa;" data-m=
ce-style=3D"background: none 0% 0% repeat scroll #fafafa;">This morning I d=
ove a bit deeper to try and diagnose the problem. The car has a Mallory Uni=
lite ignition system tied to an MSD coil which has been in place and perfor=
med faultlessly for a number of years. I removed the distributor cap and ev=
erything appears to be okay, at least visually. The interior of the distrib=
utor was clean and dry as was the cap, leads, carbon contact, optical reade=
r, etc. Mallory specifies the use of a ballast resistor in the lead from th=
e power source to the coil and with the engine fast-idling I tested 12.5 VD=
C to the resistor and about 5.5-6 VDC out of it and at the positive coil te=
rminal. </span><br></span></p><div><br></div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><s=
pan style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana,sans-serif; color: #3333=
33;" data-mce-style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana,sans-serif; co=
lor: #333333;"><br><span style=3D"background: none 0% 0% repeat scroll #faf=
afa;" data-mce-style=3D"background: none 0% 0% repeat scroll #fafafa;">I ha=
ve a large low-oil pressure light that is mounted in the dash in place of t=
he original overdrive switch. It is wired from the ignition switch through =
a 10 psi normally-closed switch mounted in the oil pressure gauge sender li=
ne and then to the light. I point this out because both times when the engi=
ne shut down yesterday the light immediately came on, from which I conclude=
that the ignition switch itself is not the source of the problem. And thou=
gh I did not remove the ignition key switch the wires to and from it seem t=
ight and intact.</span><br></span></p><div><br></div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"=
><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana,sans-serif; color: #3=
33333;" data-mce-style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana,sans-serif;=
color: #333333;"><br><span style=3D"background: none 0% 0% repeat scroll #=
fafafa;" data-mce-style=3D"background: none 0% 0% repeat scroll #fafafa;">S=
o my question is: What do I do? I hate to throw parts at it without finding=
something that appears to be defective but I don=E2=80=99t know where to s=
tart any further tests, etc. I also don=E2=80=99t want to simply wait for t=
he issue to happen again. BTW over the weekend I drove about 150 miles with=
no issues whatever. Beyond installing four new plugs last week I have not =
performed any work related to the ignition system. All suggestions/question=
s welcome=E2=80=A6.</span></span><span style=3D"color: #3333ff;" data-mce-s=
tyle=3D"color: #3333ff;"><u></u><u></u></span></p></div><div><p class=3D"Ms=
oNormal"><span style=3D"color: #3333ff;" data-mce-style=3D"color: #3333ff;"=
><u></u> <u></u></span></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span sty=
le=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana,sans-serif; color: #333333; bac=
kground: none 0% 0% repeat scroll #fafafa;" data-mce-style=3D"font-size: 10=
pt; font-family: Verdana,sans-serif; color: #333333; background: none 0% 0%=
repeat scroll #fafafa;">Best--Michael Oritt, BN1</span><span style=3D"colo=
r: #3333ff;" data-mce-style=3D"color: #3333ff;"><u></u><u></u></span></p></=
div></div></div></div>_______________________________________________<br><d=
iv><br></div>Support <a href=3D"http://Team.Net"; target=3D"_blank" data-mce=
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