healeys
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Re: [Healeys] Car dies suddenly

To: Michael Salter <michaelsalter@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Healeys] Car dies suddenly
From: Michael Oritt <michael.oritt@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2019 22:07:21 -0400
Cc: Austin Healey <healeys@autox.team.net>
Delivered-to: mharc@autox.team.net
Delivered-to: healeys@autox.team.net
References: <CAPTa0B52Mu68Uj6WK9f4cQKhLu8o5JAidxp8J=30WvaTnJdmcg@mail.gmail.com> <001101d4de95$37033f00$a509bd00$@alexarevel.plus.com> <CAB3i7LKjePQjA-pNp4SOsMMTAVpJ_iMQmNzzkEOKEXupJSJDuQ@mail.gmail.com>
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Hi Michael--

Firstly my condolences to you and your countrymen for the terrible event
that happened last week.

As to the B/W wire's being the culprit I tore it out long ago and replaced
the stock cutoff switch with a superior marine unit with plated contacts,
so scratch that as a cause.  As I posted elsewhere I am hoping to actually
find the definite issue such as a defective component or a failing
connection, etc. rather than launching into replacing coils, changing
disty's etc. and then waiting for something or nothing to happen.  I'll
start by going through the ignition circuit beginning with the key switch
and see if I can find the offending bit, etc.  If no luck then I'll start
on the Mallory Unilite which, being an electronic system (Hall Effect?) ,
has no condenser.

Thanks for the input and we'll stay in touch--Michael

On Tue, Mar 19, 2019 at 9:34 PM Michael Salter <michael.salter@gmail.com>
wrote:

> Hi Michael,
> 100's do have the master switch grounding wire to the master switch so it
> might well be worth checking.
> The symptoms sound very similar to those I encountered with a faulty coil=
.
> Mine would run for about 30 minutes fairly consistently before suddenly
> dying.
> Even when the engine would not start the bad coil still produced a
> significant spark each time the open points were shorted with a screwdriv=
er
> which I at the time, mistakenly,  felt confirmed that the coil was actual=
ly
> okay ... it wasn't.
> I was only able to confirm that the villain was in fact the coil by
> installing a replacement.
> I have encountered very similar symptoms with a faulty condenser which wa=
s
> confirmed by spraying it sparingly with ether to cool it down and then
> finding that the engine started immediately.
> As I'm sure you are aware a fuel delivery problem never causes the engine
> to stop dead ... it typically sort of peters out!!
>  I would recommend trying the condenser trick and then, if a regular coil
> can be used as a substitute for the Mallory try a substitution.
>
> M
>
> I wonder where the term "peters out" comes from ... Google time.
>
>
> On Wed, Mar 20, 2019 at 2:13 PM <simon.lachlan@alexarevel.plus.com> wrote=
:
>
>> I=E2=80=99m presuming that the car=E2=80=99s a 100? You make reference t=
o 4 plugs=E2=80=A6..
>>
>> Do 100s have the dreaded white wire from the on/off switch in the boot?
>> Do 100s have the switch even? Anyhow, that wire shorting out has caused
>> endless tears.
>>
>> Or is it a black/white wire?
>>
>> Worth a look.
>>
>> Simon
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Healeys <healeys-bounces@autox.team.net> *On Behalf Of *Michael
>> Oritt
>> *Sent:* 19 March 2019 17:46
>> *To:* Austin Healey <healeys@autox.team.net>
>> *Subject:* [Healeys] Car dies suddenly
>>
>>
>>
>> Yesterday morning I went out for a drive and after about five miles the
>> car suddenly died. There was no rough running, sputtering or missing
>> leading up to it=E2=80=94the car simply died. I coasted to the side of t=
he road and
>> after about 30 seconds since the key was still on I pushed the start
>> button. To my surprise the car started immediately, revved freely and id=
led
>> smoothly. A bit perplexed I decided to drive on to see what would happen
>> now that I was paying close attention. The car accelerated smoothly and =
ran
>> fine for about 1/2 mile and then it died again in the same manner as
>> earlier. I shut off the key, popped the hood and examined the ignition
>> system. Everything seemed fine=E2=80=94all spark plug leads were firmly =
in place as
>> was the lead from the coil to the distributor. The power wires to the co=
il
>> were tight and the harness/connector to the distributor (see below) seem=
ed
>> fine.
>>
>>
>> After scratching my head for a couple of minutes I got in the car, turne=
d
>> on the ignition and pushed the start button. Again, the car started righ=
t
>> up and ran normally. With fingers crossed I headed for my shop/garage,
>> about ten miles away and got there without any further event. Though the
>> problem did not seem to be fuel related I decided to verify that this wa=
s
>> not a fuel delivery issue. I have a double-headed SU fuel pump wired to =
a
>> switch mounted just behind the driver=E2=80=99s seat which allows me to =
switch
>> between pumps as well as turn the fuel pump off. While I was running the
>> car at highway speeds it ran perfectly on either pump and when I selecte=
d
>> the =E2=80=9Coff=E2=80=9D position it slowly lost power as I expected it=
 to=E2=80=94but in no way
>> like it had suddenly twice died 15 or so minutes earlier. This indicated=
 I
>> was not dealing with a fuel issue but rather something related either to
>> the ignition system or to the primary wires that run to it.
>>
>>
>> This morning I dove a bit deeper to try and diagnose the problem. The ca=
r
>> has a Mallory Unilite ignition system tied to an MSD coil which has been=
 in
>> place and performed faultlessly for a number of years. I removed the
>> distributor cap and everything appears to be okay, at least visually. Th=
e
>> interior of the distributor was clean and dry as was the cap, leads, car=
bon
>> contact, optical reader, etc. Mallory specifies the use of a ballast
>> resistor in the lead from the power source to the coil and with the engi=
ne
>> fast-idling I tested 12.5 VDC to the resistor and about 5.5-6 VDC out of=
 it
>> and at the positive coil terminal.
>>
>>
>> I have a large low-oil pressure light that is mounted in the dash in
>> place of the original overdrive switch. It is wired from the ignition
>> switch through a 10 psi normally-closed switch mounted in the oil pressu=
re
>> gauge sender line and then to the light. I point this out because both
>> times when the engine shut down yesterday the light immediately came on,
>> from which I conclude that the ignition switch itself is not the source =
of
>> the problem. And though I did not remove the ignition key switch the wir=
es
>> to and from it seem tight and intact.
>>
>>
>> So my question is: What do I do? I hate to throw parts at it without
>> finding something that appears to be defective but I don=E2=80=99t know =
where to
>> start any further tests, etc. I also don=E2=80=99t want to simply wait f=
or the
>> issue to happen again. BTW over the weekend I drove about 150 miles with=
 no
>> issues whatever. Beyond installing four new plugs last week I have not
>> performed any work related to the ignition system. All
>> suggestions/questions welcome=E2=80=A6.
>>
>>
>>
>> Best--Michael Oritt, BN1
>> _______________________________________________
>> Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html
>> Suggested annual donation  $12.75
>>
>> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/healeys
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>>
>> Healeys@autox.team.net
>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/healeys
>>
>> Unsubscribe/Manage:
>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/healeys/michaelsalter@gmail.com
>>
>>

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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"color:#3333ff">Hi Mi=
chael--</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"color:#3333ff"><br></div=
><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"color:#3333ff">Firstly my condolence=
s to you and your countrymen for the terrible event that happened last week=
.=C2=A0=C2=A0</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"color:#3333ff"><br=
></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"color:#3333ff">As to the B/W w=
ire&#39;s being the culprit I tore it out long ago and replaced the stock c=
utoff switch with a superior marine unit with plated contacts, so scratch t=
hat as a cause.=C2=A0 As I posted elsewhere I am hoping to actually find th=
e definite issue such as a defective component or a failing connection, etc=
. rather than launching into replacing coils, changing disty&#39;s etc. and=
 then waiting for something or nothing to happen.=C2=A0 I&#39;ll start by g=
oing through the ignition circuit beginning with the key switch and see if =
I can find the offending bit, etc.=C2=A0 If no luck then I&#39;ll start on =
the Mallory Unilite which, being an electronic system (Hall Effect?) , has =
no condenser.</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"color:#3333ff"><br=
></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"color:#3333ff">Thanks for the =
input and we&#39;ll stay in touch--Michael</div></div><br><div class=3D"gma=
il_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Tue, Mar 19, 2019 at 9:3=
4 PM Michael Salter &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:michael.salter@gmail.com";>michael=
.salter@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote"=
 style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);p=
adding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"fon=
t-family:&quot;comic sans ms&quot;,sans-serif;font-size:small">Hi Michael,<=
br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:&quot;comic sans=
 ms&quot;,sans-serif;font-size:small">100&#39;s do have the master switch g=
rounding wire to the master switch so it might well be worth checking.</div=
><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:&quot;comic sans ms&quot=
;,sans-serif;font-size:small">The symptoms sound very similar to those I en=
countered with a faulty coil. Mine would run for about 30 minutes fairly co=
nsistently before suddenly dying. <br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" st=
yle=3D"font-family:&quot;comic sans ms&quot;,sans-serif;font-size:small">Ev=
en when the engine would not start the bad coil still produced a significan=
t spark each time the open points were shorted with a screwdriver which I a=
t the time, mistakenly,=C2=A0 felt confirmed that the coil was actually oka=
y ... it wasn&#39;t.<br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-fa=
mily:&quot;comic sans ms&quot;,sans-serif;font-size:small">I was only able =
to confirm that the villain was in fact the coil by installing a replacemen=
t.</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:&quot;comic sans =
ms&quot;,sans-serif;font-size:small">I have encountered very similar sympto=
ms with a faulty condenser which was confirmed by spraying it sparingly wit=
h ether to cool it down and then finding that the engine started immediatel=
y.</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:&quot;comic sans =
ms&quot;,sans-serif;font-size:small">As I&#39;m sure you are aware a fuel d=
elivery problem never causes the engine to stop dead ... it typically sort =
of peters out!!<br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:=
&quot;comic sans ms&quot;,sans-serif;font-size:small">=C2=A0I would recomme=
nd trying the condenser trick and then, if a regular coil can be used as a =
substitute for the Mallory try a substitution.</div><div class=3D"gmail_def=
ault" style=3D"font-family:&quot;comic sans ms&quot;,sans-serif;font-size:s=
mall"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:&quot;com=
ic sans ms&quot;,sans-serif;font-size:small">M</div><div class=3D"gmail_def=
ault" style=3D"font-family:&quot;comic sans ms&quot;,sans-serif;font-size:s=
mall"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:&quot;com=
ic sans ms&quot;,sans-serif;font-size:small">I wonder where the term &quot;=
peters out&quot; comes from ... Google time.<br></div><div class=3D"gmail_d=
efault" style=3D"font-family:&quot;comic sans ms&quot;,sans-serif;font-size=
:small"><br></div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" cla=
ss=3D"gmail_attr">On Wed, Mar 20, 2019 at 2:13 PM &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:sim=
on.lachlan@alexarevel.plus.com" target=3D"_blank">simon.lachlan@alexarevel.=
plus.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D=
"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-le=
ft:1ex"><div lang=3D"EN-GB"><div class=3D"gmail-m_-789276802690414559gmail-=
m_3595661642997666392WordSection1"><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span>I=E2=80=99m=
 presuming that the car=E2=80=99s a 100? You make reference to 4 plugs=E2=
=80=A6..<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span>Do 100s have =
the dreaded white wire from the on/off switch in the boot? Do 100s have the=
 switch even? Anyhow, that wire shorting out has caused endless tears.<u></=
u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span>Or is it a black/white wir=
e?<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span>Worth a look.<u></u=
><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span>Simon<u></u><u></u></span><=
/p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p><p class=3D"=
MsoNormal"><b><span lang=3D"EN-US">From:</span></b><span lang=3D"EN-US"> He=
aleys &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:healeys-bounces@autox.team.net"; target=3D"_blan=
k">healeys-bounces@autox.team.net</a>&gt; <b>On Behalf Of </b>Michael Oritt=
<br><b>Sent:</b> 19 March 2019 17:46<br><b>To:</b> Austin Healey &lt;<a hre=
f=3D"mailto:healeys@autox.team.net"; target=3D"_blank">healeys@autox.team.ne=
t</a>&gt;<br><b>Subject:</b> [Healeys] Car dies suddenly<u></u><u></u></spa=
n></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p><div><div><p class=3D"=
MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;col=
or:rgb(51,51,51);background:none 0% 0% repeat scroll rgb(250,250,250)">Yest=
erday morning I went out for a drive and after about five miles the car sud=
denly died. There was no rough running, sputtering or missing leading up to=
 it=E2=80=94the car simply died. I coasted to the side of the road and afte=
r about 30 seconds since the key was still on I pushed the start button. To=
 my surprise the car started immediately, revved freely and idled smoothly.=
 A bit perplexed I decided to drive on to see what would happen now that I =
was paying close attention. The car accelerated smoothly and ran fine for a=
bout 1/2 mile and then it died again in the same manner as earlier. I shut =
off the key, popped the hood and examined the ignition system. Everything s=
eemed fine=E2=80=94all spark plug leads were firmly in place as was the lea=
d from the coil to the distributor. The power wires to the coil were tight =
and the harness/connector to the distributor (see below) seemed fine.</span=
><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;color:rgb(51,=
51,51)"><br><br><br><span style=3D"background:none 0% 0% repeat scroll rgb(=
250,250,250)">After scratching my head for a couple of minutes I got in the=
 car, turned on the ignition and pushed the start button. Again, the car st=
arted right up and ran normally. With fingers crossed I headed for my shop/=
garage, about ten miles away and got there without any further event. Thoug=
h the problem did not seem to be fuel related I decided to verify that this=
 was not a fuel delivery issue. I have a double-headed SU fuel pump wired t=
o a switch mounted just behind the driver=E2=80=99s seat which allows me to=
 switch between pumps as well as turn the fuel pump off. While I was runnin=
g the car at highway speeds it ran perfectly on either pump and when I sele=
cted the =E2=80=9Coff=E2=80=9D position it slowly lost power as I expected =
it to=E2=80=94but in no way like it had suddenly twice died 15 or so minute=
s earlier. This indicated I was not dealing with a fuel issue but rather so=
mething related either to the ignition system or to the primary wires that =
run to it.=C2=A0</span><br><br><br><span style=3D"background:none 0% 0% rep=
eat scroll rgb(250,250,250)">This morning I dove a bit deeper to try and di=
agnose the problem. The car has a Mallory Unilite ignition system tied to a=
n MSD coil which has been in place and performed faultlessly for a number o=
f years. I removed the distributor cap and everything appears to be okay, a=
t least visually. The interior of the distributor was clean and dry as was =
the cap, leads, carbon contact, optical reader, etc. Mallory specifies the =
use of a ballast resistor in the lead from the power source to the coil and=
 with the engine fast-idling I tested 12.5 VDC to the resistor and about 5.=
5-6 VDC out of it and at the positive coil terminal.=C2=A0</span><br><br><b=
r><span style=3D"background:none 0% 0% repeat scroll rgb(250,250,250)">I ha=
ve a large low-oil pressure light that is mounted in the dash in place of t=
he original overdrive switch. It is wired from the ignition switch through =
a 10 psi normally-closed switch mounted in the oil pressure gauge sender li=
ne and then to the light. I point this out because both times when the engi=
ne shut down yesterday the light immediately came on, from which I conclude=
 that the ignition switch itself is not the source of the problem. And thou=
gh I did not remove the ignition key switch the wires to and from it seem t=
ight and intact.</span><br><br><br><span style=3D"background:none 0% 0% rep=
eat scroll rgb(250,250,250)">So my question is: What do I do? I hate to thr=
ow parts at it without finding something that appears to be defective but I=
 don=E2=80=99t know where to start any further tests, etc. I also don=E2=80=
=99t want to simply wait for the issue to happen again. BTW over the weeken=
d I drove about 150 miles with no issues whatever. Beyond installing four n=
ew plugs last week I have not performed any work related to the ignition sy=
stem. All suggestions/questions welcome=E2=80=A6.</span></span><span style=
=3D"color:rgb(51,51,255)"><u></u><u></u></span></p></div><div><p class=3D"M=
soNormal"><span style=3D"color:rgb(51,51,255)"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span><=
/p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fam=
ily:Verdana,sans-serif;color:rgb(51,51,51);background:none 0% 0% repeat scr=
oll rgb(250,250,250)">Best--Michael Oritt, BN1</span><span style=3D"color:r=
gb(51,51,255)"><u></u><u></u></span></p></div></div></div></div>___________=
____________________________________<br>
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</blockquote></div>
</blockquote></div>

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