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Perry pointed out to me that PBE also has a shop in Bell Gardens
(Southern California).
Bob
On 6/12/2020 11:34 PM, Bob Spidell wrote:
> You could always try rebuilding the servo and, if it works, great, if
> not, install the imposter.
>
> I did a lot of research before I rebuilt mine--OK, I read this list
> and a couple forums--and it appeared the most common issue was with
> the vacuum canister. Specifically, the rubber tube that is used to
> backstop the leather seal in the canister was sold too
> long--intentionally--and needed to be trimmed to an appropriate length
> lest the piston get stuck in the canister. Also, the canister is lined
> with a dry lubricant that wears, and I found a suitable replacement
> (although in hindsight I think the original dry lubricant was still
> serviceable). It's been a while, maybe 10 years, but IIRC the
> canister had about 150K miles on it, and both cylinders on the servo
> body were in serviceable condition (no re-sleeving required). One
> thing that's hard to replace--Fred, if you decide to buy new, I'll pay
> for shipping if you'll send your valve to me--is the vacuum check
> valve; it's been NLA forever (my car came with a plastic aftermarket
> valve; which looked grossly out of place in my engine bay; I got a
> good used one from BCS).
>
> Perry, I don't think PBE is a franchise; the one-and-only is in San
> Jose, CA. I took the booster for my dad's '46 Chevy 2-ton truck there
> a few years ago; great guys but the shop is an unholy mess (BF
> everywhere). The Hispanic kid that worked on my dad's servo showed me
> his work; he was very proud of it and had a Girling from a Jag apart
> on the bench. The first time my dad tried out the booster he said the
> brakes almost sent him through the windshield. I drove the truck today
> and the brakes still work great. PBE stands behind--or in front?--of
> their work; I got the impression they know that the failure rate is
> not nonexistent.
>
> I haven't found DoT5 to be any more difficult to bleed than glycols,
> but you have to be careful not to aerate it in the process. To be
> sure, a bleeder on the servo would be helpful (as long as it's not
> like the bleeder on the clutch slave).
>
> Bob
>
>
> On 6/12/2020 9:35 AM, Michael Salter wrote:
>> I would agree with Bob that the most likely problem is the servo.
>> You can check this fairly easily by loosening off the lower 10/32
>> nuts and screws on the servo chest and gently prying it open a little.
>> If the servo is leaking fluid will run out.
>> IMHO Bob's 50/50 success rate for rebuilds is a little optimistic ð???ð???.
>> Unless you are fairly skilled you are unlikely to succeed on your
>> first few attempts.
>> Commercially I gave up rebuilding them many years ago because of the
>> dismal success rate and started installing PBR VH44 servos, possibly
>> still available from Healey Surgeons, which require different mount
>> brackets and fluid lines. We never had a VH44 come-back.
>> M
>>
>> On Fri., Jun. 12, 2020, 12:19 p.m. Bob Spidell, <bspidell@comcast.net
>>
>> If a significant amount of brake fluid is leaking into the servo you
>> will get white smoke out of the tailpipes (under most running
>> conditions). This is because the engine will suck fluid into the
>> intake
>> manifold through the vacuum hose. The most likely cause of this
>> is the
>> 'gland' seal; which seals the vacuum piston--the large canister
>> on the
>> servo--from the servo's hydraulics (it has two pistons; one is
>> activated
>> by pedal pressure to gate air at ambient pressure into the
>> canister to
>> assist a second 'master' cylinder, which powers the slave cyls).
>>
>> You can rebuild the servo yourself; I've done it once successfully,
>> others report 50-50 success. I've not heard overwhelming stories of
>> success with aftermarket (Lockheed, or an Australian equivalent)
>> replacements, but some like them. They aren't apparently, a 'drop
>> in'
>> replacement without some fiddling, and hearsay says they're not as
>> effective as the Girling (putting my Nomex suit on). The hydraulic
>> section of the servos is not much different from ordinary brake
>> cylinders. The shop manual has an excellent explanation of the
>> theory
>> and workings of the servos; it took me several reads and some
>> cogitating
>> to grok it all, but they are pretty ingenious.
>>
>> If you're not getting any white smoke, your guess is as good as
>> mine; I
>> have the same problem--although I haven't pulled the drums to
>> check the
>> rear slave cylinders (fronts are not leaking)--but since I had
>> bled them
>> before the problem occurred I'm thinking I screwed the pooch
>> somehow on
>> the bleed.
>>
>> Bob
>>
>>
>> On 6/12/2020 8:46 AM, Fred Wescoe wrote:
>> > I am having issues with the brakes on my 66 BJ8. I am new to
>> this BJ8
>> > with boosted brakes, but I have owned a BJ7 for many years. I
>> don't
>> > find any clues in the shop manual or in Norm Nock's tech talk
>> manual.
>> >
>> > When I press the brake pedal, it slowly goes to the floor. I am
>> losing
>> > hydraulic fluid in the reservoir but there are no apparent
>> leaks that
>> > I can see. There are no fluid spots on the garage floor at
>> each wheel
>> > and no evidence of brake fluid on the wire wheels which would
>> indicate
>> > a leak. I have pulled each wheel and I do not see brake fluid
>> anywhere.
>> >
>> > Is it possible that the fluid is leaking into the brake
>> booster? How
>> > am I able to check that out? If this is the case, can the
>> booster be
>> > repaired by me or someone else, if so, who. If fluid is
>> leaking into
>> > the booster, is it better to simply replace the booster and
>> who is a
>> > good source?
>> >
>> > Something always happens before what promises to be a great
>> sunny weekend.
>> >
>> > Thanks for any help,
>> >
>> > Fred
>>
>
>
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<body>
Perry pointed out to me that PBE also has a shop in Bell Gardens
(Southern California). <br>
<br>
Bob<br>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 6/12/2020 11:34 PM, Bob Spidell
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:972b8e5b-c1c0-d56a-be11-e2a5af0cfea4@comcast.net">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
You could always try rebuilding the servo and, if it works, great,
if not, install the imposter.<br>
<br>
I did a lot of research before I rebuilt mine--OK, I read this
list and a couple forums--and it appeared the most common issue
was with the vacuum canister. Specifically, the rubber tube that
is used to backstop the leather seal in the canister was sold too
long--intentionally--and needed to be trimmed to an appropriate
length lest the piston get stuck in the canister. Also, the
canister is lined with a dry lubricant that wears, and I found a
suitable replacement (although in hindsight I think the original
dry lubricant was still serviceable). It's been a while, maybe 10
years, but IIRC the canister had about 150K miles on it, and both
cylinders on the servo body were in serviceable condition (no
re-sleeving required). One thing that's hard to replace--Fred, if
you decide to buy new, I'll pay for shipping if you'll send your
valve to me--is the vacuum check valve; it's been NLA forever (my
car came with a plastic aftermarket valve; which looked grossly
out of place in my engine bay; I got a good used one from BCS).<br>
<br>
Perry, I don't think PBE is a franchise; the one-and-only is in
San Jose, CA. I took the booster for my dad's '46 Chevy 2-ton
truck there a few years ago; great guys but the shop is an unholy
mess (BF everywhere). The Hispanic kid that worked on my dad's
servo showed me his work; he was very proud of it and had a
Girling from a Jag apart on the bench. The first time my dad tried
out the booster he said the brakes almost sent him through the
windshield. I drove the truck today and the brakes still work
great. PBE stands behind--or in front?--of their work; I got the
impression they know that the failure rate is not nonexistent.<br>
<br>
I haven't found DoT5 to be any more difficult to bleed than
glycols, but you have to be careful not to aerate it in the
process. To be sure, a bleeder on the servo would be helpful (as
long as it's not like the bleeder on the clutch slave).<br>
<br>
Bob<br>
<br>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 6/12/2020 9:35 AM, Michael Salter
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CAB3i7LJS2N7JExMvwrfwOoq+5DfMO2eWsoki-Rf4uNqU5w4ZKg@mail.gmail.com">
<meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html;
charset=UTF-8">
<div dir="auto">I would agree with Bob that the most likely
problem is the servo.
<div dir="auto">You can check this fairly easily by loosening
off the lower 10/32 nuts and screws on the servo chest and
gently prying it open a little. </div>
<div dir="auto">If the servo is leaking fluid will run out.</div>
<div dir="auto">IMHO Bob's 50/50 success rate for rebuilds is
a little optimistic ð???ð???.</div>
<div dir="auto">Unless you are fairly skilled you are unlikely
to succeed on your first few attempts.</div>
<div dir="auto">Commercially I gave up rebuilding them many
years ago because of the dismal success rate and started
installing PBR VH44 servos, possibly still available from
Healey Surgeons, which require different mount brackets and
fluid lines. We never had a VH44 come-back.</div>
<div dir="auto">M</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Fri., Jun. 12, 2020,
12:19 p.m. Bob Spidell, <<a
href="mailto:bspidell@comcast.net";
moz-do-not-send="true">bspidell@comcast.net</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">If a
significant amount of brake fluid is leaking into the servo
you <br>
will get white smoke out of the tailpipes (under most
running <br>
conditions). This is because the engine will suck fluid into
the intake <br>
manifold through the vacuum hose. The most likely cause of
this is the <br>
'gland' seal; which seals the vacuum piston--the large
canister on the <br>
servo--from the servo's hydraulics (it has two pistons; one
is activated <br>
by pedal pressure to gate air at ambient pressure into the
canister to <br>
assist a second 'master' cylinder, which powers the slave
cyls).<br>
<br>
You can rebuild the servo yourself; I've done it once
successfully, <br>
others report 50-50 success. I've not heard overwhelming
stories of <br>
success with aftermarket (Lockheed, or an Australian
equivalent) <br>
replacements, but some like them. They aren't apparently, a
'drop in' <br>
replacement without some fiddling, and hearsay says they're
not as <br>
effective as the Girling (putting my Nomex suit on). The
hydraulic <br>
section of the servos is not much different from ordinary
brake <br>
cylinders. The shop manual has an excellent explanation of
the theory <br>
and workings of the servos; it took me several reads and
some cogitating <br>
to grok it all, but they are pretty ingenious.<br>
<br>
If you're not getting any white smoke, your guess is as good
as mine; I <br>
have the same problem--although I haven't pulled the drums
to check the <br>
rear slave cylinders (fronts are not leaking)--but since I
had bled them <br>
before the problem occurred I'm thinking I screwed the pooch
somehow on <br>
the bleed.<br>
<br>
Bob<br>
<br>
<br>
On 6/12/2020 8:46 AM, Fred Wescoe wrote:<br>
> I am having issues with the brakes on my 66 BJ8. I am
new to this BJ8 <br>
> with boosted brakes, but I have owned a BJ7 for many
years. I don't <br>
> find any clues in the shop manual or in Norm Nock's
tech talk manual.<br>
><br>
> When I press the brake pedal, it slowly goes to the
floor. I am losing <br>
> hydraulic fluid in the reservoir but there are no
apparent leaks that <br>
> I can see. There are no fluid spots on the garage
floor at each wheel <br>
> and no evidence of brake fluid on the wire wheels which
would indicate <br>
> a leak. I have pulled each wheel and I do not see
brake fluid anywhere.<br>
><br>
> Is it possible that the fluid is leaking into the brake
booster? How <br>
> am I able to check that out? If this is the case, can
the booster be <br>
> repaired by me or someone else, if so, who. If fluid
is leaking into <br>
> the booster, is it better to simply replace the
booster and who is a <br>
> good source?<br>
><br>
> Something always happens before what promises to be a
great sunny weekend.<br>
><br>
> Thanks for any help,<br>
><br>
> Fred<br>
<br>
</blockquote>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
<br>
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