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Bob & Mike:
=20
You both may have seen my requests on overheating of my BJ8 and the =
response from the group. As a result, I purchased an infrared =
thermometer to determine if my water gauge was giving accurate readings. =
The thermometer gun told me that my water gauge was 30 degrees higher =
than the temperature of the sensor attached to the block. At the same =
time, I noticed my gauge will show 120 degrees at rest instead of going =
down to 90 degrees which would indicate a 30-degree high reading. In =
May when I leave for cool Michigan, I will send the gauge to Nisonger to =
be rebuilt.
=20
I began to test the temperature of the water going through the cooling =
system at the inlet to and outlet from the block, inlet and outlet to =
the radiator and the upper and lower hoses while the engine is running =
at idle and at 2-3 Thousand rpm. The chart I created to record these =
temperatures allowed me to produce observations or averages because the =
flow of the water is dependent upon the rpms of the engine. The engine =
has overheated all of the 40 years I have owned it and has only 1000 =
miles on the new speedo since rebuilding to 20 over.=20
=20
At the radiator inlet 134 outlet 85 at high rpms with electric fan =
operating.
inlet 103 outlet 94 at idle rpms with electric =
fan operating.=20
=20
The above temperatures are recorded at the inlet and all along the =
hoses.
=20
These temperatures indicate the pump is circulating water with =
sufficient gallons to cool the engine only when the engine is at high =
rpms. At idle the pump does not circulate sufficient water to keep the =
engine cool. This is especially true when you have been operating the =
engine at high speed and come down to 30 =E2=80=93 40 mph and stop and =
go traffic. Maybe the real answer is to install an electric pump for =
constant cooling water?
=20
In the past week, I have installed a large Dorman coolant recovery tank =
and a new 7 psi 1 inch radiator cap because I learned that our radiators =
have a long neck. Both those changes have reduced my problem of very =
high overheating and resulting boiling over. In addition, when my water =
gauge shows 212 degrees the water temperature is actually 30 degrees =
less or approximately 185 degrees. Also, I am not boiling over and =
loosing coolant. Nevertheless, the engine water temperature is still =
spiking to 210 plus degrees true when coming off highway speeds. =20
=20
In my review of various sites, the radiator equipment suppliers and =
others are recommending increasing the pressure in the classic car =
systems to 15 psi plus, and coolant recovery tanks =E2=80=9Cif your =
coolant system, radiator, hoses etc. is new=E2=80=9D and therefore can =
hold the pressure. Unfortunately, I have not found any maker of a 1 =
inch depth x 2.33 inch diameter radiator cap except our 7 psi cap so I =
can try such a pressurized system.
=20
Another suggestion on an older discussion at the British Car Forum =
indicated some of the Ontario car owners had switched to Evans Waterless =
Coolant rather than 50/50 coolant water mixture.
=20
I still have no idea why a minority of our group has overheating =
problems. More ideas?
=20
Regards,
=20
Bob Begani 67 BJ8=20
=20
From: Healeys <healeys-bounces@autox.team.net> On Behalf Of Michael =
Salter via Healeys
Sent: Saturday, March 6, 2021 12:20 PM
To: Bob Spidell <bspidell@comcast.net>
Cc: healeys@autox.team.net
Subject: Re: [Healeys] 100 water pumps
=20
Yes Bob, there is something wrong with our assumptions regarding the =
cooling system not being "large" enough.=20
My wifes Maxima is around 300 HP and the radiator has less area than the =
100. Certainly it has a couple of very effective electric fans but they =
really don't cut in very often unless you have the AC on.
I'm suspicious of the rate of circulation but I've talked to Larry =
Varley about this subject and he indicated that increasing the size of =
the water pump annular orifice didn't make much difference when he tried =
it.
=20
M
=20
M
=20
On Sat, Mar 6, 2021 at 11:42 AM Bob Spidell <bspidell@comcast.net =
I sold my late father's 1955 Thunderbird to my BFF. These cars have a =
very similar problem to Healeys overheating, esp. at idle. When Ford =
stuffed the 292ci Y-Block into the T-Bird, they found the engine was =
(essentially) too short for the long-hooded car, so they 'engineered'--I =
use the term loosely--a cast iron spacer to move the fan closer to the =
radiator. The spacer had the added 'benefit' of severely limiting =
coolant flow through the pump and radiator; there are some aftermarket =
fixes and my friend, after doing the usual radiator re-core, better fan, =
etc. installed both a better pump (larger vanes) and a re-engineered =
spacer. Attached pic is not of the spacer he used--I can't find the link =
to it--but it shows the general idea (Ford basically put a 'dam' in the =
cooling system to block flow, and the improved spacers mostly remove =
it). It appears this approach has improved cooling, though the engine =
probably still gets warm if it has to sit too long at idle. Link is to =
one of the improved pumps:
https://www.classictbird.com/Water-Pump-Modified-for-Higher-Output-1-Per-=
car/productinfo/8501HO/
Anyways, after doing all the usual stuff to increase cooling, esp. on my =
BJ8, I've wondered if a similar approach would work on Healeys. Their =
pumps have very small vanes, and the cavity in which the vanes operate =
seems pretty small for such a large lump of cast iron (I'm guessing an =
uprated radiator core won't help much if the coolant flow is still =
hampered; at least, that's what I've found). This is probably not an =
option as, of course, our engines don't have a similar spacer to be =
improved upon, and it would be a major task to increase both the =
cavity's size and the pump (but I can dream).
ps. The overheating issue with Healeys is usually attributed to too big =
of an engine in too small of an engine compartment, and too little =
airflow. But, the engine bay in an old T-Bird is huge by comparison--and =
the engine not terribly larger in displacement--and still suffers the =
same problem.
Bob=20
=20
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vlink=3Dpurple style=3D'word-wrap:break-word'><div =
class=3DWordSection1><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>Bob & =
Mike:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:=
p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>You both may =
have seen my requests on overheating of my BJ8 and the response from the =
group.=C2=A0 As a result, I purchased an infrared thermometer to =
determine if my water gauge was giving accurate readings.=C2=A0 The =
thermometer gun told me that my water gauge was 30 degrees higher than =
the temperature of the sensor attached to the block.=C2=A0 At the same =
time, I noticed my gauge will show 120 degrees at rest instead of going =
down to 90 degrees which would indicate a 30-degree high reading.=C2=A0 =
In May when I leave for cool Michigan, I will send the gauge to Nisonger =
to be rebuilt.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:=
p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>I began to =
test the temperature of the water going through the cooling system at =
the inlet to and outlet from the block, inlet and outlet to the radiator =
and the upper and lower hoses while the engine is running at idle and at =
2-3 Thousand rpm.=C2=A0 The chart I created to record these temperatures =
allowed me to produce observations or averages because the flow of the =
water is dependent upon the rpms of the engine.=C2=A0 The engine has =
overheated all of the 40 years I have owned it and has only 1000 miles =
on the new speedo since rebuilding to 20 over. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:=
p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>At the =
radiator inlet 134 outlet 85 at high rpms with electric fan =
operating.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 inlet 103 outlet 94 at =
idle rpms with electric fan operating. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:=
p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>The above =
temperatures are recorded at the inlet and all along the =
hoses.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:=
p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>These =
temperatures indicate the pump is circulating water with sufficient =
gallons to cool the engine only when the engine is at high rpms.=C2=A0 =
At idle the pump does not circulate sufficient water to keep the engine =
cool.=C2=A0 This is especially true when you have been operating the =
engine at high speed and come down to 30 =E2=80=93 40 mph and stop and =
go traffic.=C2=A0 Maybe the real answer is to install an electric pump =
for constant cooling water?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:=
p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>In the past =
week, I have installed a large Dorman coolant recovery tank and a new 7 =
psi 1 inch radiator cap because I learned that our radiators have a long =
neck.=C2=A0 Both those changes have reduced my problem of very high =
overheating and resulting boiling over. =C2=A0In addition, when my water =
gauge shows 212 degrees the water temperature is actually 30 degrees =
less or approximately 185 degrees.=C2=A0 Also, I am not boiling over and =
loosing coolant.=C2=A0 Nevertheless, the engine water temperature is =
still spiking to 210 plus degrees true when coming off highway =
speeds.=C2=A0 <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:=
p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>In my review =
of various sites, the radiator equipment suppliers and others are =
recommending increasing the pressure in the classic car systems to 15 =
psi plus, and coolant recovery tanks =E2=80=9Cif your coolant system, =
radiator, hoses etc. is new=E2=80=9D and therefore can hold the =
pressure.=C2=A0 Unfortunately, I have not found any maker of a 1 inch =
depth x 2.33 inch diameter radiator cap except our 7 psi cap so I can =
try such a pressurized system.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:=
p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>Another =
suggestion on an older discussion at the British Car Forum indicated =
some of the Ontario car owners had switched to Evans Waterless Coolant =
rather than 50/50 coolant water mixture.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:=
p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>I still have =
no idea why a minority of our group has overheating problems.=C2=A0 More =
ideas?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:=
p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>Regards,<o:p></=
o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:=
p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>Bob Begani 67 =
BJ8 <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:=
p></span></p><div style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 =
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b>From:</b> =
Healeys <healeys-bounces@autox.team.net> <b>On Behalf Of =
</b>Michael Salter via Healeys<br><b>Sent:</b> Saturday, March 6, 2021 =
12:20 PM<br><b>To:</b> Bob Spidell =
<bspidell@comcast.net><br><b>Cc:</b> =
healeys@autox.team.net<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Healeys] 100 water =
pumps<o:p></o:p></p></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>Yes Bob, there =
is something wrong with our assumptions regarding the cooling system not =
being "large" enough. </span><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>My wifes =
Maxima is around 300 HP and the radiator has less area than the 100. =
Certainly it has a couple of very effective electric fans but they =
really don't cut in very often unless you have the AC on.</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>I'm suspicious =
of the rate of circulation but I've talked to Larry Varley about this =
subject and he indicated that increasing the size of the water pump =
annular orifice didn't make much difference when he tried =
it.</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>M</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Comic Sans =
MS"'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Comic Sans =
MS"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Comic Sans =
MS"'>M<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal>On =
Sat, Mar 6, 2021 at 11:42 AM Bob Spidell <<a =
href=3D"mailto:bspidell@comcast.net";>bspidell@comcast.net</a>> =
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote =
style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in =
6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in'><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:12.0pt;mar=
gin-left:11.4pt'>I sold my late father's 1955 Thunderbird to my BFF. =
These cars have a very similar problem to Healeys overheating, esp. at =
idle. When Ford stuffed the 292ci Y-Block into the T-Bird, they found =
the engine was (essentially) too short for the long-hooded car, so they =
'engineered'--I use the term loosely--a cast iron spacer to move the fan =
closer to the radiator. The spacer had the added 'benefit' of severely =
limiting coolant flow through the pump and radiator; there are some =
aftermarket fixes and my friend, after doing the usual radiator re-core, =
better fan, etc. installed both a better pump (larger vanes) and a =
re-engineered spacer. Attached pic is not of the spacer he used--I can't =
find the link to it--but it shows the general idea (Ford basically put a =
'dam' in the cooling system to block flow, and the improved spacers =
mostly remove it). It appears this approach has improved cooling, though =
the engine probably still gets warm if it has to sit too long at idle. =
Link is to one of the improved pumps:<br><br><a =
href=3D"https://www.classictbird.com/Water-Pump-Modified-for-Higher-Outpu=
t-1-Per-car/productinfo/8501HO/" =
target=3D"_blank">https://www.classictbird.com/Water-Pump-Modified-for-Hi=
gher-Output-1-Per-car/productinfo/8501HO/</a><br><br>Anyways, after =
doing all the usual stuff to increase cooling, esp. on my BJ8, I've =
wondered if a similar approach would work on Healeys. Their pumps have =
very small vanes, and the cavity in which the vanes operate seems pretty =
small for such a large lump of cast iron (I'm guessing an uprated =
radiator core won't help much if the coolant flow is still hampered; at =
least, that's what I've found). This is probably not an option as, of =
course, our engines don't have a similar spacer to be improved upon, and =
it would be a major task to increase both the cavity's size and the pump =
(but I can dream).<br><br>ps. The overheating issue with Healeys is =
usually attributed to too big of an engine in too small of an engine =
compartment, and too little airflow. But, the engine bay in an old =
T-Bird is huge by comparison--and the engine not terribly larger in =
displacement--and still suffers the same problem.<br><br>Bob =
<o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></p></blockquote></div></=
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