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Re: [Healeys] Overheating

To: "healeys@autox.team.net" <healeys@autox.team.net>
Subject: Re: [Healeys] Overheating
From: Leonard Berkowitz via Healeys <healeys@autox.team.net>
Date: Sun, 7 Mar 2021 15:07:31 +0000
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Delivered-to: mharc@autox.team.net
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References: <036401d712d3$ce823c40$6b86b4c0$@gmail.com>
Thread-index: AdcS0iE/nPCLz4TXTJGHzIOKLWMUkwAkLMcY
Thread-topic: [Healeys] Overheating
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        boundary="_000_MN2PR13MB3503C0E83FDF68076C84996CB8949MN2PR13MB3503namp_"

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Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

So first step is to make sure your temperature gauge is accurate. If you ar=
e still running hot I solved the problem by adding an additional row to a f=
actory original radiator.  Haven't had any problem with overheating since. =
I had already tried adding an electric fan, an oil cooler and a Texas fan. =
Nothing worked.

________________________________
From: Healeys <healeys-bounces@autox.team.net> on behalf of rfbegani@gmail.=
com <rfbegani@gmail.com>
Sent: Saturday, March 6, 2021 4:58 PM
To: 'Michael Salter' <michaelsalter@gmail.com>; 'Bob Spidell' <bspidell@com=
cast.net>; 'Ahealey help' <healeys@autox.team.net>
Subject: [Healeys] Overheating


Bob & Mike:



You both may have seen my requests on overheating of my BJ8 and the respons=
e from the group.  As a result, I purchased an infrared thermometer to dete=
rmine if my water gauge was giving accurate readings.  The thermometer gun =
told me that my water gauge was 30 degrees higher than the temperature of t=
he sensor attached to the block.  At the same time, I noticed my gauge will=
 show 120 degrees at rest instead of going down to 90 degrees which would i=
ndicate a 30-degree high reading.  In May when I leave for cool Michigan, I=
 will send the gauge to Nisonger to be rebuilt.



I began to test the temperature of the water going through the cooling syst=
em at the inlet to and outlet from the block, inlet and outlet to the radia=
tor and the upper and lower hoses while the engine is running at idle and a=
t 2-3 Thousand rpm.  The chart I created to record these temperatures allow=
ed me to produce observations or averages because the flow of the water is =
dependent upon the rpms of the engine.  The engine has overheated all of th=
e 40 years I have owned it and has only 1000 miles on the new speedo since =
rebuilding to 20 over.



At the radiator inlet 134 outlet 85 at high rpms with electric fan operatin=
g.

                        inlet 103 outlet 94 at idle rpms with electric fan =
operating.



The above temperatures are recorded at the inlet and all along the hoses.



These temperatures indicate the pump is circulating water with sufficient g=
allons to cool the engine only when the engine is at high rpms.  At idle th=
e pump does not circulate sufficient water to keep the engine cool.  This i=
s especially true when you have been operating the engine at high speed and=
 come down to 30 =96 40 mph and stop and go traffic.  Maybe the real answer=
 is to install an electric pump for constant cooling water?



In the past week, I have installed a large Dorman coolant recovery tank and=
 a new 7 psi 1 inch radiator cap because I learned that our radiators have =
a long neck.  Both those changes have reduced my problem of very high overh=
eating and resulting boiling over.  In addition, when my water gauge shows =
212 degrees the water temperature is actually 30 degrees less or approximat=
ely 185 degrees.  Also, I am not boiling over and loosing coolant.  Neverth=
eless, the engine water temperature is still spiking to 210 plus degrees tr=
ue when coming off highway speeds.



In my review of various sites, the radiator equipment suppliers and others =
are recommending increasing the pressure in the classic car systems to 15 p=
si plus, and coolant recovery tanks =93if your coolant system, radiator, ho=
ses etc. is new=94 and therefore can hold the pressure.  Unfortunately, I h=
ave not found any maker of a 1 inch depth x 2.33 inch diameter radiator cap=
 except our 7 psi cap so I can try such a pressurized system.



Another suggestion on an older discussion at the British Car Forum indicate=
d some of the Ontario car owners had switched to Evans Waterless Coolant ra=
ther than 50/50 coolant water mixture.



I still have no idea why a minority of our group has overheating problems. =
 More ideas?



Regards,



Bob Begani 67 BJ8



From: Healeys <healeys-bounces@autox.team.net> On Behalf Of Michael Salter =
via Healeys
Sent: Saturday, March 6, 2021 12:20 PM
To: Bob Spidell <bspidell@comcast.net>
Cc: healeys@autox.team.net
Subject: Re: [Healeys] 100 water pumps



Yes Bob, there is something wrong with our assumptions regarding the coolin=
g system not being "large" enough.

My wifes Maxima is around 300 HP and the radiator has less area than the 10=
0. Certainly it has a couple of very effective electric fans but they reall=
y don't cut in very often unless you have the AC on.

I'm suspicious of the rate of circulation but I've talked to Larry Varley a=
bout this subject and he indicated that increasing the size of the water pu=
mp annular orifice didn't make much difference when he tried it.



M



M



pidell@comcast.net>> wrote:

I sold my late father's 1955 Thunderbird to my BFF. These cars have a very =
similar problem to Healeys overheating, esp. at idle. When Ford stuffed the=
 292ci Y-Block into the T-Bird, they found the engine was (essentially) too=
 short for the long-hooded car, so they 'engineered'--I use the term loosel=
y--a cast iron spacer to move the fan closer to the radiator. The spacer ha=
d the added 'benefit' of severely limiting coolant flow through the pump an=
d radiator; there are some aftermarket fixes and my friend, after doing the=
 usual radiator re-core, better fan, etc. installed both a better pump (lar=
ger vanes) and a re-engineered spacer. Attached pic is not of the spacer he=
 used--I can't find the link to it--but it shows the general idea (Ford bas=
ically put a 'dam' in the cooling system to block flow, and the improved sp=
acers mostly remove it). It appears this approach has improved cooling, tho=
ugh the engine probably still gets warm if it has to sit too long at idle. =
Link is to one of the improved pumps:

https://www.classictbird.com/Water-Pump-Modified-for-Higher-Output-1-Per-ca=
r/productinfo/8501HO/

Anyways, after doing all the usual stuff to increase cooling, esp. on my BJ=
8, I've wondered if a similar approach would work on Healeys. Their pumps h=
ave very small vanes, and the cavity in which the vanes operate seems prett=
y small for such a large lump of cast iron (I'm guessing an uprated radiato=
r core won't help much if the coolant flow is still hampered; at least, tha=
t's what I've found). This is probably not an option as, of course, our eng=
ines don't have a similar spacer to be improved upon, and it would be a maj=
or task to increase both the cavity's size and the pump (but I can dream).

ps. The overheating issue with Healeys is usually attributed to too big of =
an engine in too small of an engine compartment, and too little airflow. Bu=
t, the engine bay in an old T-Bird is huge by comparison--and the engine no=
t terribly larger in displacement--and still suffers the same problem.

Bob



--_000_MN2PR13MB3503C0E83FDF68076C84996CB8949MN2PR13MB3503namp_
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<div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;=
 color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
So first step is to make sure your temperature gauge is accurate. If you ar=
e still running hot I solved the problem by adding an additional row to a f=
actory original radiator. &nbsp;Haven't had any problem with overheating si=
nce. I had already tried adding an electric
 fan, an oil cooler and a Texas fan. Nothing worked.&nbsp;</div>
<div>
<div id=3D"appendonsend"></div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12pt; col=
or:rgb(0,0,0)">
<br>
</div>
<hr tabindex=3D"-1" style=3D"display:inline-block; width:98%">
<div id=3D"divRplyFwdMsg" dir=3D"ltr"><font face=3D"Calibri, sans-serif" co=
lor=3D"#000000" style=3D"font-size:11pt"><b>From:</b> Healeys &lt;healeys-b=
ounces@autox.team.net&gt; on behalf of rfbegani@gmail.com &lt;rfbegani@gmai=
l.com&gt;<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Saturday, March 6, 2021 4:58 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> 'Michael Salter' &lt;michaelsalter@gmail.com&gt;; 'Bob Spidell' =
&lt;bspidell@comcast.net&gt;; 'Ahealey help' &lt;healeys@autox.team.net&gt;=
<br>
<b>Subject:</b> [Healeys] Overheating</font>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
</div>
<div lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"word-wrap:break-word">
<div class=3D"x_WordSection1">
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family=
: Calibri, sans-serif;">
<span style=3D"font-size:14.0pt; font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif">=
Bob &amp; Mike:</span></p>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family=
: Calibri, sans-serif;">
<span style=3D"font-size:14.0pt; font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif">=
&nbsp;</span></p>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family=
: Calibri, sans-serif;">
<span style=3D"font-size:14.0pt; font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif">=
You both may have seen my requests on overheating of my BJ8 and the respons=
e from the group.&nbsp; As a result, I purchased an infrared thermometer to=
 determine if my water gauge was giving accurate
 readings.&nbsp; The thermometer gun told me that my water gauge was 30 deg=
rees higher than the temperature of the sensor attached to the block.&nbsp;=
 At the same time, I noticed my gauge will show 120 degrees at rest instead=
 of going down to 90 degrees which would indicate
 a 30-degree high reading.&nbsp; In May when I leave for cool Michigan, I w=
ill send the gauge to Nisonger to be rebuilt.</span></p>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family=
: Calibri, sans-serif;">
<span style=3D"font-size:14.0pt; font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif">=
&nbsp;</span></p>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family=
: Calibri, sans-serif;">
<span style=3D"font-size:14.0pt; font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif">=
I began to test the temperature of the water going through the cooling syst=
em at the inlet to and outlet from the block, inlet and outlet to the radia=
tor and the upper and lower hoses while the
 engine is running at idle and at 2-3 Thousand rpm.&nbsp; The chart I creat=
ed to record these temperatures allowed me to produce observations or avera=
ges because the flow of the water is dependent upon the rpms of the engine.=
&nbsp; The engine has overheated all of the
 40 years I have owned it and has only 1000 miles on the new speedo since r=
ebuilding to 20 over.
</span></p>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family=
: Calibri, sans-serif;">
<span style=3D"font-size:14.0pt; font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif">=
&nbsp;</span></p>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family=
: Calibri, sans-serif;">
<span style=3D"font-size:14.0pt; font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif">=
At the radiator inlet 134 outlet 85 at high rpms with electric fan operatin=
g.</span></p>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family=
: Calibri, sans-serif;">
<span style=3D"font-size:14.0pt; font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif">=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; inlet 103 o=
utlet 94 at idle rpms with electric fan operating.
</span></p>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family=
: Calibri, sans-serif;">
<span style=3D"font-size:14.0pt; font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif">=
&nbsp;</span></p>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family=
: Calibri, sans-serif;">
<span style=3D"font-size:14.0pt; font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif">=
The above temperatures are recorded at the inlet and all along the hoses.</=
span></p>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family=
: Calibri, sans-serif;">
<span style=3D"font-size:14.0pt; font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif">=
&nbsp;</span></p>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family=
: Calibri, sans-serif;">
<span style=3D"font-size:14.0pt; font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif">=
These temperatures indicate the pump is circulating water with sufficient g=
allons to cool the engine only when the engine is at high rpms.&nbsp; At id=
le the pump does not circulate sufficient water to
 keep the engine cool.&nbsp; This is especially true when you have been ope=
rating the engine at high speed and come down to 30 =96 40 mph and stop and=
 go traffic.&nbsp; Maybe the real answer is to install an electric pump for=
 constant cooling water?</span></p>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family=
: Calibri, sans-serif;">
<span style=3D"font-size:14.0pt; font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif">=
&nbsp;</span></p>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family=
: Calibri, sans-serif;">
<span style=3D"font-size:14.0pt; font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif">=
In the past week, I have installed a large Dorman coolant recovery tank and=
 a new 7 psi 1 inch radiator cap because I learned that our radiators have =
a long neck.&nbsp; Both those changes have reduced
 my problem of very high overheating and resulting boiling over. &nbsp;In a=
ddition, when my water gauge shows 212 degrees the water temperature is act=
ually 30 degrees less or approximately 185 degrees.&nbsp; Also, I am not bo=
iling over and loosing coolant.&nbsp; Nevertheless,
 the engine water temperature is still spiking to 210 plus degrees true whe=
n coming off highway speeds.&nbsp;
</span></p>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family=
: Calibri, sans-serif;">
<span style=3D"font-size:14.0pt; font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif">=
&nbsp;</span></p>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family=
: Calibri, sans-serif;">
<span style=3D"font-size:14.0pt; font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif">=
In my review of various sites, the radiator equipment suppliers and others =
are recommending increasing the pressure in the classic car systems to 15 p=
si plus, and coolant recovery tanks =93if your
 coolant system, radiator, hoses etc. is new=94 and therefore can hold the =
pressure.&nbsp; Unfortunately, I have not found any maker of a 1 inch depth=
 x 2.33 inch diameter radiator cap except our 7 psi cap so I can try such a=
 pressurized system.</span></p>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family=
: Calibri, sans-serif;">
<span style=3D"font-size:14.0pt; font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif">=
&nbsp;</span></p>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family=
: Calibri, sans-serif;">
<span style=3D"font-size:14.0pt; font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif">=
Another suggestion on an older discussion at the British Car Forum indicate=
d some of the Ontario car owners had switched to Evans Waterless Coolant ra=
ther than 50/50 coolant water mixture.</span></p>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family=
: Calibri, sans-serif;">
<span style=3D"font-size:14.0pt; font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif">=
&nbsp;</span></p>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family=
: Calibri, sans-serif;">
<span style=3D"font-size:14.0pt; font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif">=
I still have no idea why a minority of our group has overheating problems.&=
nbsp; More ideas?</span></p>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family=
: Calibri, sans-serif;">
<span style=3D"font-size:14.0pt; font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif">=
&nbsp;</span></p>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family=
: Calibri, sans-serif;">
<span style=3D"font-size:14.0pt; font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif">=
Regards,</span></p>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family=
: Calibri, sans-serif;">
<span style=3D"font-size:14.0pt; font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif">=
&nbsp;</span></p>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family=
: Calibri, sans-serif;">
<span style=3D"font-size:14.0pt; font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif">=
Bob Begani 67 BJ8 </span>
</p>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family=
: Calibri, sans-serif;">
<span style=3D"font-size:14.0pt; font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif">=
&nbsp;</span></p>
<div style=3D"border:none; border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt; padding:3.0pt 0i=
n 0in 0in">
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family=
: Calibri, sans-serif;">
<b>From:</b> Healeys &lt;healeys-bounces@autox.team.net&gt; <b>On Behalf Of=
 </b>Michael Salter via Healeys<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Saturday, March 6, 2021 12:20 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Bob Spidell &lt;bspidell@comcast.net&gt;<br>
<b>Cc:</b> healeys@autox.team.net<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Healeys] 100 water pumps</p>
</div>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family=
: Calibri, sans-serif;">
&nbsp;</p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family=
: Calibri, sans-serif;">
<span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt; font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif">=
Yes Bob, there is something wrong with our assumptions regarding the coolin=
g system not being &quot;large&quot; enough.
</span><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt"></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family=
: Calibri, sans-serif;">
<span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt; font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif">=
My wifes Maxima is around 300 HP and the radiator has less area than the 10=
0. Certainly it has a couple of very effective electric fans but they reall=
y don't cut in very often unless you have the
 AC on.</span><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt"></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family=
: Calibri, sans-serif;">
<span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt; font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif">=
I'm suspicious of the rate of circulation but I've talked to Larry Varley a=
bout this subject and he indicated that increasing the size of the water pu=
mp annular orifice didn't make much difference
 when he tried it.</span><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt"></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family=
: Calibri, sans-serif;">
<span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt">&nbsp;</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family=
: Calibri, sans-serif;">
<span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt; font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif">=
M</span><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt; font-family:&quot;Comic Sans MS&qu=
ot;"></span></p>
</div>
<div>
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: Calibri, sans-serif;">
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On Sat, Mar 6, 2021 at 11:42 AM Bob Spidell &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:bspidell@=
comcast.net">bspidell@comcast.net</a>&gt; wrote:</p>
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1.4pt">
I sold my late father's 1955 Thunderbird to my BFF. These cars have a very =
similar problem to Healeys overheating, esp. at idle. When Ford stuffed the=
 292ci Y-Block into the T-Bird, they found the engine was (essentially) too=
 short for the long-hooded car,
 so they 'engineered'--I use the term loosely--a cast iron spacer to move t=
he fan closer to the radiator. The spacer had the added 'benefit' of severe=
ly limiting coolant flow through the pump and radiator; there are some afte=
rmarket fixes and my friend, after
 doing the usual radiator re-core, better fan, etc. installed both a better=
 pump (larger vanes) and a re-engineered spacer. Attached pic is not of the=
 spacer he used--I can't find the link to it--but it shows the general idea=
 (Ford basically put a 'dam' in
 the cooling system to block flow, and the improved spacers mostly remove i=
t). It appears this approach has improved cooling, though the engine probab=
ly still gets warm if it has to sit too long at idle. Link is to one of the=
 improved pumps:<br>
<br>
<a href=3D"https://www.classictbird.com/Water-Pump-Modified-for-Higher-Outp=
ut-1-Per-car/productinfo/8501HO/" target=3D"_blank">https://www.classictbir=
d.com/Water-Pump-Modified-for-Higher-Output-1-Per-car/productinfo/8501HO/</=
a><br>
<br>
Anyways, after doing all the usual stuff to increase cooling, esp. on my BJ=
8, I've wondered if a similar approach would work on Healeys. Their pumps h=
ave very small vanes, and the cavity in which the vanes operate seems prett=
y small for such a large lump of
 cast iron (I'm guessing an uprated radiator core won't help much if the co=
olant flow is still hampered; at least, that's what I've found). This is pr=
obably not an option as, of course, our engines don't have a similar spacer=
 to be improved upon, and it would
 be a major task to increase both the cavity's size and the pump (but I can=
 dream).<br>
<br>
ps. The overheating issue with Healeys is usually attributed to too big of =
an engine in too small of an engine compartment, and too little airflow. Bu=
t, the engine bay in an old T-Bird is huge by comparison--and the engine no=
t terribly larger in displacement--and
 still suffers the same problem.<br>
<br>
Bob </p>
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