--===============0686500838053872272==
--000000000000c5b99905e9db7856
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Michael--
You have to remember that when talking about problems with a
Healey the unlikely sometimes becomes probable. If you haven't already
done so I would suggest that you drain and flush the tank either in situ or
out of the car.
On Thu, Sep 29, 2022 at 10:02 PM Michael Salter <michaelsalter@gmail.com>
wrote:
> BUT ... the fact that full throttle and climbing a slope with no change i=
n
> the amount of misfiring tends to negate fuel blockage as a cause.
> I'm starting to think that the refueling situation is something of a "red
> herring" although it certainly is an odd one.
>
> On Thu., Sep. 29, 2022, 9:23 p.m. Alan Seigrist, <healey.nut@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Good point. I had a very similar experience when I had mistakenly used
>> high heat silicone to seal the fuel tank sender, and I didn=E2=80=99t kn=
ow that
>> fuel caused flakes of it to fall off and plug the pickup intermittently.
>>
>> On Fri, 30 Sep 2022 at 4:38 AM, Michael Oritt <michael.oritt@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I had a similar miss that was caused by a leaf that had gotten into the
>>> tank. It would be pulled against the pickup by fuel flow and cause the
>>> engine to lose power on all cylinders, as opposed to a miss. When I ei=
ther
>>> got off the gas pedal or shut the engine down the leaf would apparently
>>> fall away from the pickup and everything would be fine until the leaf w=
as
>>> once again pulled against the pickup, etc. etc.
>>>
>>> I empirically came up with this theory after I pulled the fuel sender,
>>> searched around in the tank with a flashlight and found the leaf, and a=
fter
>>> I removed it the miss went away. How the leaf got into the tank when t=
he
>>> fuel filler is inside the boot is a larger issue I never figured out.
>>>
>>> Best--Michael Oritt
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Sep 29, 2022 at 11:01 AM Don Anglesey via Healeys <
>>> healeys@autox.team.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I suspect that when the tank is filled any sediment or debris around
>>>> the tank intake is redistributed thru the fuel then it settles again.
>>>> Classic sign of bad fuel filter or sediment in tank.
>>>>
>>>> Don
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=3D550986> for
>>>> Windows
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> *From: *Michael Salter <michaelsalter@gmail.com>
>>>> *Sent: *Thursday, September 29, 2022 8:10 AM
>>>> *To: *Alan Seigrist <healey.nut@gmail.com>
>>>> *Cc: *Healey list <healeys@autox.team.net>
>>>> *Subject: *Re: [Healeys] Austin Healey 100 Misfire Diagnosis.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Thanks to all who have obviously given this misfire issue considerable
>>>> thought. I will be sure to check all suggestions.
>>>>
>>>> I should like to point out however that it is the immediate vanishing
>>>> of the misfire after filling the fuel tank that has me confused.
>>>>
>>>> This has happened three times simce the problem appeared.
>>>>
>>>> I just don't understand how an ignition problem could change as a
>>>> result of filling the tank.
>>>>
>>>> Furthermore I'm convinced that this is not a fuel starvation problem
>>>> because the amount of engine power being used has no effect.
>>>>
>>>> Totally baffled.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks again to all ... I'll report back.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Thu., Sep. 29, 2022, 9:14 a.m. Alan Seigrist via Healeys, <
>>>> healeys@autox.team.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Hi John -
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Yes, that was the point I was trying to make, sorry if it fell through
>>>> bad interpretation! As Ed McMahon used to say, "You Are Correct Sir!"
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Cheers,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Alan
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, Sep 29, 2022 at 7:53 PM john harper <ah100tech@gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Alan
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Coils can fail with heat and then recover when cooled. I had one that
>>>> had these symptoms and when looking closely I saw that the insulating =
oil
>>>> had run out through a very small crack in the bottom of the case.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, 29 Sept 2022 at 10:34, Alan Seigrist <healey.nut@gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Michael -
>>>>
>>>> Just as a follow up to my email since the symptoms seem to manifest
>>>> themself ...
>>>>
>>>> - whether the car is warmed up or not - this typically will exclude
>>>> anything related to fuel or the coil
>>>> - whether the car is under load or not - this typically will
>>>> exclude anything related to fuel
>>>> - whether the choke is pulled or not - this typically will exclude
>>>> anything related to fuel
>>>> - somewhat intermittent but systematically under all conditions -
>>>> suggests to me wiring / ground issues
>>>>
>>>> Given this I'd check (as a priority):
>>>>
>>>> - Battery Master (when these fail they will ground the coil)
>>>> - primary ignition wire (white) from the switch to coil (cycle the
>>>> connections)
>>>> - motor ground straps (cycle the connections)
>>>> - loose wires in the dizzy
>>>> - loose ignition wires into the dizzy or spark plug
>>>>
>>>> Other things to possibly do (as secondary):
>>>>
>>>> - replace rotor
>>>> - replace dizzy cap
>>>>
>>>> I don't think it would be contacts or condensor simply because this
>>>> would either be very regular all the time, or maybe sensitive to temp.
>>>>
>>>> Best,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Alan
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, Sep 29, 2022 at 4:46 PM Bob Spidell <bspidell@comcast.net>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> re: "... I don=E2=80=99t recall if that wire is separate from the dist=
ributor
>>>> wire ..."
>>>>
>>>> It is (or should be). If the battery switch is in the 'OFF' position i=
t
>>>> grounds the coil primary so no spark.
>>>>
>>>> On 9/28/2022 8:34 PM, Alan Seigrist wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Hi Michael -
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Have you tried cycling the connections on the white wire from the
>>>> ignition switch to the coil, and also from the coil to the distributor=
.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> You might also want to try disconnecting the black and white wire at
>>>> the coil from the battery master switch - if it=E2=80=99s failing you=
=E2=80=99ll get weird
>>>> symptoms like this. If that wire is disconnected the car should run n=
o
>>>> problem. I don=E2=80=99t recall if that wire is separate from the dis=
tributor
>>>> wire, if it isn=E2=80=99t you=E2=80=99ll have to disconnect it from un=
derneath the master
>>>> switch itself.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Best,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Alan
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
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--000000000000c5b99905e9db7856
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"color:#3333ff">Micha=
el--</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"color:#3333ff"><br></div><d=
iv class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"color:#3333ff">You have to remember tha=
t when talking about problems with a Healey=C2=A0the=C2=A0unlikely sometime=
s becomes probable.=C2=A0 If you haven't already done so I would sugges=
t that you drain and flush the tank either in situ or out of the car.=C2=A0=
</div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_=
attr">On Thu, Sep 29, 2022 at 10:02 PM Michael Salter <<a href=3D"mailto=
:michaelsalter@gmail.com">michaelsalter@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><=
blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-l=
eft:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"auto">BUT ... =
the fact that full throttle and climbing a slope with no change in the amou=
nt of misfiring tends to negate fuel blockage as a cause.=C2=A0<div dir=3D"=
auto">I'm starting to think that the refueling situation is something o=
f a "red herring" although it certainly is an odd one.</div></div=
><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Th=
u., Sep. 29, 2022, 9:23 p.m. Alan Seigrist, <<a href=3D"mailto:healey.nu=
t@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">healey.nut@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br></div=
><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border=
-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"auto">Good p=
oint.=C2=A0 I had a very similar experience when I had mistakenly used high=
heat silicone to seal the fuel tank sender, and I didn=E2=80=99t know that=
fuel caused flakes of it to fall off and plug the pickup intermittently.</=
div><div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_att=
r">On Fri, 30 Sep 2022 at 4:38 AM, Michael Oritt <<a href=3D"mailto:mich=
ael.oritt@gmail.com" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">michael.oritt@gma=
il.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"m=
argin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left=
:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"color:rgb(51,5=
1,255)">I had a similar miss that was caused by a leaf that had gotten into=
the tank.=C2=A0 It would be pulled against the pickup by fuel flow and cau=
se the engine to lose power on all cylinders, as opposed to a miss.=C2=A0 W=
hen I either got off the gas pedal or shut the engine down the leaf would a=
pparently fall away from the pickup and everything would be fine until the =
leaf was once again pulled against the pickup, etc. etc.=C2=A0</div><div cl=
ass=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"color:rgb(51,51,255)"><br></div><div class=
=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"color:rgb(51,51,255)">I empirically came up wit=
h this theory after I pulled the fuel sender, searched around in the tank w=
ith a flashlight and found the leaf, and after I removed it the miss went a=
way.=C2=A0 How the leaf got into the tank when the fuel filler is inside th=
e boot is a larger issue I never figured out.</div><div class=3D"gmail_defa=
ult" style=3D"color:rgb(51,51,255)"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" =
style=3D"color:rgb(51,51,255)">Best--Michael Oritt</div><div class=3D"gmail=
_default" style=3D"color:rgb(51,51,255)"><br></div></div><br><div class=3D"=
gmail_quote"></div><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gma=
il_attr">On Thu, Sep 29, 2022 at 11:01 AM Don Anglesey via Healeys <<a h=
ref=3D"mailto:healeys@autox.team.net"; rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">=
healeys@autox.team.net</a>> wrote:<br></div></div><div class=3D"gmail_qu=
ote"><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;bo=
rder-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div></div></blockqu=
ote></div><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" styl=
e=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);paddin=
g-left:1ex"><div>
<div lang=3D"EN-US">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">I suspect that when the tank is filled any sediment =
or debris around the tank intake is redistributed thru the fuel then it set=
tles again.=C2=A0 Classic sign of bad fuel filter or sediment in tank.</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Don</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Sent from <a href=3D"https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink=
/?LinkId=3D550986" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">
Mail</a> for Windows</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<div style=3D"border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-left:none;border-=
top:1pt solid rgb(225,225,225);padding:3pt 0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"border:none;padding:0in"><b>From: </b><a hr=
ef=3D"mailto:michaelsalter@gmail.com"; rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">=
Michael Salter</a><br>
<b>Sent: </b>Thursday, September 29, 2022 8:10 AM<br>
<b>To: </b><a href=3D"mailto:healey.nut@gmail.com"; rel=3D"noreferrer" targe=
t=3D"_blank">Alan Seigrist</a><br>
<b>Cc: </b><a href=3D"mailto:healeys@autox.team.net"; rel=3D"noreferrer" tar=
get=3D"_blank">Healey list</a><br>
<b>Subject: </b>Re: [Healeys] Austin Healey 100 Misfire Diagnosis.</p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Thanks to all who have obviously given this misfire =
issue considerable thought. I will be sure to check all suggestions.=C2=A0<=
u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">I=C2=A0 should like to point out however that it is =
the immediate vanishing of the misfire after filling the fuel tank that has=
me confused.=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">This has happened three times simce the problem appe=
ared.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">I just don't understand how an ignition problem =
could change as a result of filling the tank.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Furthermore I'm convinced that this is not a fue=
l starvation problem because the amount of engine power being used has no e=
ffect.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Totally baffled.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Thanks again to all ... I'll=C2=A0 report back.<=
u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">On Thu., Sep. 29, 2022, 9:14 a.m. Alan Seigrist via =
Healeys, <<a href=3D"mailto:healeys@autox.team.net"; rel=3D"noreferrer" t=
arget=3D"_blank">healeys@autox.team.net</a>> wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;b=
order-left:1pt solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin-left:4=
.8pt;margin-right:0in">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Hi John -<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Yes, that was the point I was trying to make, sorry =
if it fell through bad interpretation!=C2=A0 As Ed McMahon used to say, &qu=
ot;You Are Correct Sir!"<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Cheers,<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Alan<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">On Thu, Sep 29, 2022 at 7:53 PM john harper <<a h=
ref=3D"mailto:ah100tech@gmail.com"; rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">ah1=
00tech@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;b=
order-left:1pt solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin-left:4=
.8pt;margin-right:0in">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Alan<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Coils can fail with heat and then recover when coole=
d. I had one that had these symptoms and when looking closely I saw that th=
e insulating oil had run out through a very small=C2=A0crack in the bottom =
of the case.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">On Thu, 29 Sept 2022 at 10:34, Alan Seigrist <<a =
href=3D"mailto:healey.nut@gmail.com"; rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">h=
ealey.nut@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;b=
order-left:1pt solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin-left:4=
.8pt;margin-right:0in">
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Michael -<br>
<br>
Just as a follow up to my email since the symptoms seem to manifest themsel=
f=C2=A0=C2=A0...=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<ul type=3D"disc">
<li class=3D"MsoNormal">
whether the car is warmed up or not - this typically will exclude anything =
related to fuel or the coil<u></u><u></u></li><li class=3D"MsoNormal">
whether the car is under load or not - this typically will exclude anything=
related to fuel<u></u><u></u></li><li class=3D"MsoNormal">
whether the choke is pulled or not - this typically will exclude anything r=
elated to fuel<u></u><u></u></li><li class=3D"MsoNormal">
somewhat intermittent but systematically under all conditions - suggests to=
me wiring / ground issues<u></u><u></u></li></ul>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Given this I'd check (as a priority):<u></u><u><=
/u></p>
<ul type=3D"disc">
<li class=3D"MsoNormal">
Battery Master (when these fail they will ground the coil)<u></u><u></u></l=
i><li class=3D"MsoNormal">
primary ignition wire (white) from the switch to coil (cycle the connection=
s)<u></u><u></u></li><li class=3D"MsoNormal">
motor ground straps (cycle the connections)<u></u><u></u></li><li class=3D"=
MsoNormal">
loose wires in the dizzy<u></u><u></u></li><li class=3D"MsoNormal">
loose ignition=C2=A0wires into the dizzy or spark plug<u></u><u></u></li></=
ul>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Other things to possibly do (as secondary):<u></u><u=
></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<ul type=3D"disc">
<li class=3D"MsoNormal">
replace rotor<u></u><u></u></li><li class=3D"MsoNormal">
replace dizzy cap<u></u><u></u></li></ul>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">I don't think it would be contacts or condensor =
simply because this would either be very regular=C2=A0all the time, or mayb=
e sensitive to temp.<br>
<br>
Best,<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12pt">Alan<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">On Thu, Sep 29, 2022 at 4:46 PM Bob Spidell <<a h=
ref=3D"mailto:bspidell@comcast.net"; rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">bs=
pidell@comcast.net</a>> wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;b=
order-left:1pt solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin-left:4=
.8pt;margin-right:0in">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12pt">re: "... I don=E2=
=80=99t recall if that wire is separate from the distributor wire ..."=
<br>
<br>
It is (or should be). If the battery switch is in the 'OFF' positio=
n it grounds the coil primary so no spark.<br>
<br>
<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">On 9/28/2022 8:34 PM, Alan Seigrist wrote:<u></u><u>=
</u></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Hi Michael -<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Have you tried cycling the connections on the white =
wire from the ignition switch to the coil, and also from the coil to the di=
stributor.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">You might also want to try disconnecting the black a=
nd white wire at the coil from the battery master switch - if it=E2=80=99s =
failing you=E2=80=99ll get weird symptoms like this.=C2=A0 If that wire is =
disconnected the car should run no problem.=C2=A0 I don=E2=80=99t recall
if that wire is separate from the distributor wire, if it isn=E2=80=99t yo=
u=E2=80=99ll have to disconnect it from underneath the master switch itself=
.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Best,<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Alan<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12pt">_______________________=
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<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
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