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In my experience the usual cause is rear brakes not adjusted tight enough. T=
he first press of the pedal moves the shoes away from their resting position=
, but not all the way to the drum. A quick second press of the pedal moves=
them even further. A quick third press of the pedal may put the shoes in c=
ontact with the drum and the pedal feels hard. Release the pedal and the sh=
oes move all the way back to their initial resting position and you start al=
l over again when you want to use the brakes. No air in the system and the p=
edal feels great once you get the shoes all the way out to the drum.
Rick
> On Jan 16, 2022, at 4:32 PM, Weslake1330 via Spridgets <spridgets@autox.te=
am.net> wrote:
>=20
> =EF=BB=BF
> I don't mind friendly disagreements - its one of the best ways to learn! O=
k. I guess hard is a relative term. Assuming I'm wrong, and there is no ai=
r in the system what is causing the pedal to need to pump up?
>=20
>> On Sun, 16 Jan 2022 at 10:17, GUY DAY <grday@btinternet.com> wrote:
>> Sorry Wes,
>> I've got to disagree with part of your last comment. <snip> If the pedal p=
umps up hard and absolutely stays hard there is still air in the system.<end=
snip>. If the pedal stays hard there is NO air (or leaks) in the system. I=
f there is air in the system then the pedal will feel 'springy' or 'bouncy'.=
Air will always act as a spring within a fluid system and anything akin t=
o a discerning foot will feel it. =20
>>=20
>>=20
>>=20
>> Fully agree with the rest of your post - and I've had people saying the b=
rakes are fine as the pedal very slowly sinks to the floor!. It feels firm b=
ut the pedal sinks over a minute or so. (If no fluid is lost there is a sea=
l leak in the m/cyl). =20
>>=20
>>=20
>>=20
>>=20
>> Stay well,
>>=20
>>=20
>>=20
>> Guy R Day
>>=20
>>=20
>>=20
>> ------ Original Message ------
>> From: "Weslake1330 via Spridgets" <spridgets@autox.team.net>
>> To: "Michael MacLean" <springer.mike51@gmail.com>
>> Cc: "Spridgets" <spridgets@autox.team.net>
>> Sent: Sunday, 16 Jan, 22 At 09:22
>> Subject: Re: [Spridgets] Brake Bleed
>>=20
>> Air can get trapped in a solid brake line and not easily find its way to t=
he slave to be bled out. I have heard some people say that after driving th=
e car a few times the air moves about and then the system bleeds better. On m=
y Sprite I've sometimes left it a week and then come back to it and re-bled i=
t with a better result. I'm also always resigned to using massive amount of=
fluid and pumping it all through. I do have s/s easy bleed nipples but sti=
ll use a basic bleeding tool as well.
>>=20
>> If the pedal pumps up hard and absolutely stays hard there is still air i=
n the system. If it pumps up hard but won't stay absolutely hard - somethin=
g isn't quite seating correcting or you have some other sort of leak.
>>=20
>> Regards
>>=20
>>=20
>> Daniel
>>=20
>>> On Sun, 16 Jan 2022 at 08:49, Michael MacLean via Spridgets <spridgets@a=
utox.team.net> wrote:
>>> You're right. I got it backasswards. New master with twin 3/4" bores. =
The old one was 7/8" in one bore for the drum brakes and 3/4" bore for the=
Datsun clutch in the other. Rear is adjusted as best as possible. Pity yo=
u can't get shoes arced anymore for full contact with the drum. I will try t=
o wear them in and keep adjusting to see if that helps. =20
>>> Mike
>>>=20
>>>> On Sat, Jan 15, 2022 at 9:20 PM Rick Fisk <refisk@chartermi.net> wrote:=
>>>> Hi Mike,
>>>> =20
>>>> Front disc brakes should have a 3/4" master. Make sure the rear drums=
are adjusted properly. If the rears aren't adjusted properly you quite oft=
en will have to pump the pedal to get it firm.
>>>> =20
>>>> Rick
>>>> =20
>>>> > On Jan 15, 2022, at 11:22 PM, Michael MacLean via Spridgets <spridge=
ts@autox.team.net> wrote:
>>>> >=20
>>>> > =EF=BB=BF
>>>> > The front drum brakes and master cylinder on my Bugeye were recently=
swapped out for disc brakes. The old master was 3/4" bore with a 7/8" slee=
ve for the Datsun clutch. The new master is 7/8" in both bores to actuate t=
he calipers correctly. Installation went without a hitch and the car was bl=
ed multiple times, but for some reason the brake pedal goes down aways befor=
e it works. You can actually pump the pedal up a bit. We can't understand i=
t. There are no leaks and it was bled properly, butt it acts like there is s=
till air in the system. Any ideas?
>>>> > Mike MacLean
>>>> > ------------------------
>>>> >=20
>>>> > spridgets@autox.team.net
>>>> >=20
>>>> > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
>>>> > Suggested annual donation: $12.75
>>>> >=20
>>>> > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/spridgets http://autox.team.=
net/archive
>>>> >=20
>>>> > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/spridgets/=
refisk@chartermi.net
>>>> =20
>>>> =20
>>> ------------------------
>>> =20
>>> spridgets@autox.team.net
>>> =20
>>> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
>>> Suggested annual donation: $12.75
>>> =20
>>> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/spridgets http://autox.team.net=
/archive
>>> =20
>>> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/spridgets/wes=
lake1330@gmail.com
>>> =20
>> =20
>> ------------------------
>>=20
>>=20
>>=20
>> spridgets@autox.team.net
>>=20
>>=20
>>=20
>> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
>>=20
>> Suggested annual donation: $12.75
>>=20
>>=20
>>=20
>> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/spridgets http://autox.team.net/a=
rchive
>>=20
>>=20
>>=20
>> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/spridgets/grday=
@btinternet.com
>>=20
> ------------------------
>=20
> spridgets@autox.team.net
>=20
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation: $12.75
>=20
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/spridgets http://autox.team.net/ar=
chive
>=20
> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/spridgets/refisk=
@chartermi.net
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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"content-type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3D=
utf-8"></head><body dir=3D"auto"><div dir=3D"ltr"></div><div dir=3D"ltr">In m=
y experience the usual cause is rear brakes not adjusted tight enough.  =
;The first press of the pedal moves the shoes away from their resting positi=
on, but not all the way to the drum. A quick second press of the peda=
l moves them even further. A quick third press of the pedal may put th=
e shoes in contact with the drum and the pedal feels hard. Release the=
pedal and the shoes move all the way back to their initial resting position=
and you start all over again when you want to use the brakes. No air i=
n the system and the pedal feels great once you get the shoes all the way ou=
t to the drum.</div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">Rick</div><d=
iv dir=3D"ltr"><br><blockquote type=3D"cite">On Jan 16, 2022, at 4:32 PM, We=
slake1330 via Spridgets <spridgets@autox.team.net> wrote:<br><br></blo=
ckquote></div><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div dir=3D"ltr">=EF=BB=BF<div dir=3D=
"ltr">I don't mind friendly disagreements - its one of the best ways to lear=
n! Ok. I guess hard is a relative term. Assuming I'm wrong=
, and there is no air in the system what is causing the pedal to need to pum=
p up?</div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_at=
tr">On Sun, 16 Jan 2022 at 10:17, GUY DAY <<a href=3D"mailto:grday@btinte=
rnet.com">grday@btinternet.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"=
gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204=
,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><u></u> <div><div dir=3D"auto" style=3D"unic=
ode-bidi:embed">Sorry Wes, <div><p>I've got to disagree with part of your la=
st comment. <snip> <span style=3D"white-space:pre-wrap">If the pedal p=
umps up hard and absolutely stays hard there is still air in the system.<=
end snip>. </span><span style=3D"white-space:pre-wrap">If the pedal stay=
s hard there is NO air (or leaks) in the system. If there is air in the sys=
tem then the pedal will feel 'springy' or 'bouncy'. Air will always act as=
a spring within a fluid system and anything akin to a discerning foot will f=
eel it. </span></p><div><p><span style=3D"white-space:pre-wrap"><br></span>=
</p><p><span style=3D"white-space:pre-wrap">Fully agree with the rest of you=
r post - and I've had people saying the brakes are fine as the pedal very sl=
owly sinks to the floor!. It feels firm but the pedal sinks over a minute o=
r so. (If no fluid is lost there is a seal leak in the m/cyl). </span></p>=
<p><span style=3D"white-space:pre-wrap;display:inline"><br></span></p><div><=
br></div><div><p>Stay well,</p><p><br></p><p>Guy R Day</p><blockquote style=3D=
"margin:0px auto;padding:0px 2em;border-left:2px solid rgb(0,173,229);white-=
space:pre-wrap"><br><br>------ Original Message ------<br>From: "Weslake1330=
via Spridgets" <<a href=3D"mailto:spridgets@autox.team.net"; target=3D"_b=
lank">spridgets@autox.team.net</a>><br>To: "Michael MacLean" <<a href=3D=
"mailto:springer.mike51@gmail.com"; target=3D"_blank">springer.mike51@gmail.c=
om</a>><br>Cc: "Spridgets" <<a href=3D"mailto:spridgets@autox.team.net=
" target=3D"_blank">spridgets@autox.team.net</a>><br>Sent: Sunday, 16 Jan=
, 22 At 09:22<br>Subject: Re: [Spridgets] Brake Bleed<br><br><div dir=3D"ltr=
">Air can get trapped in a solid brake line and not easily find its way to t=
he slave to be bled out. I have heard some people say that after driving th=
e car a few times the air moves about and then the system bleeds better. On m=
y Sprite I've sometimes left it a week and then come back to it and re-bled i=
t with a better result. I'm also always resigned to using massive amount of=
fluid and pumping it all through. I do have s/s easy bleed nipples but sti=
ll use a basic bleeding tool as well.<div><br></div><div>If the pedal pumps u=
p hard and absolutely stays hard there is still air in the system. If it pu=
mps up hard but won't stay absolutely hard - something isn't quite seating c=
orrecting or you have some other sort of leak.</div><div><br></div><div>Rega=
rds</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>Daniel</div></div><br><div class=
=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Sun, 16 Jan 2022 a=
t 08:49, Michael MacLean via Spridgets <<a href=3D"mailto:spridgets@autox=
.team.net" target=3D"_blank"><span>spridgets@autox.team.net</span><span></sp=
an></a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margi=
n:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"=
><div dir=3D"ltr"><div>You're right. I got it backasswards. New master wit=
h twin 3/4" bores. The old one was 7/8" in one bore for the drum brakes an=
d 3/4" bore for the Datsun clutch in the other. Rear is adjusted as best as=
possible. Pity you can't get shoes arced anymore for full contact with the=
drum. I will try to wear them in and keep adjusting to see if that helps. =
<br></div><div>Mike<br></div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D=
"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Sat, Jan 15, 2022 at 9:20 PM Rick Fisk <<a h=
ref=3D"mailto:refisk@chartermi.net"; target=3D"_blank"><span>refisk@chartermi=
.net</span><span></span></a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_=
quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,2=
04);padding-left:1ex">Hi Mike,<br> <br> Front disc brakes should have a 3/4"=
master. Make sure the rear drums are adjusted properly. If the rears aren=
't adjusted properly you quite often will have to pump the pedal to get it f=
irm.<br> <br> Rick<br> <br> > On Jan 15, 2022, at 11:22 PM, Michael MacLe=
an via Spridgets <<a href=3D"mailto:spridgets@autox.team.net"; target=3D"_=
blank"><span>spridgets@autox.team.net</span><span></span></a>> wrote:<br>=
> <br> > =EF=BB=BF<br> > The front drum brakes and master cylinder=
on my Bugeye were recently swapped out for disc brakes. The old master was=
3/4" bore with a 7/8" sleeve for the Datsun clutch. The new master is 7/8"=
in both bores to actuate the calipers correctly. Installation went without=
a hitch and the car was bled multiple times, but for some reason the brake p=
edal goes down aways before it works. You can actually pump the pedal up a b=
it. We can't understand it. There are no leaks and it was bled properly, bu=
tt it acts like there is still air in the system. Any ideas?<br> > Mike M=
acLean<br> > ------------------------<br> > <br> > <a href=3D"mailt=
o:spridgets@autox.team.net" target=3D"_blank"><span>spridgets@autox.team.net=
</span><span></span></a><br> > <br> > Donate: <a href=3D"http://www.te=
am.net/donate.html" target=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/donate.html</a><br=
> > Suggested annual donation: $12.75<br> > <br> > Archive: <a href=
=3D"http://www.team.net/pipermail/spridgets"; target=3D"_blank">http://www.te=
am.net/pipermail/spridgets</a> <a href=3D"http://autox.team.net/archive"; ta=
rget=3D"_blank">http://autox.team.net/archive</a><br> > <br> > Unsubsc=
ribe/Manage: <a href=3D"http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/spridgets/refi=
sk@chartermi.net" target=3D"_blank">http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/sp=
ridgets/refisk@chartermi.net</a><br> <br> </blockquote></div> --------------=
----------<br> <br> <a href=3D"mailto:spridgets@autox.team.net"; target=3D"_b=
lank"><span>spridgets@autox.team.net</span><span></span></a><br> <br> Donate=
: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/donate.html"; target=3D"_blank">http://www.t=
eam.net/donate.html</a><br> Suggested annual donation: $12.75<br> <br> Archi=
ve: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/pipermail/spridgets"; target=3D"_blank">ht=
tp://www.team.net/pipermail/spridgets</a> <a href=3D"http://autox.team.net/=
archive" target=3D"_blank">http://autox.team.net/archive</a><br> <br> Unsubs=
cribe/Manage: <a href=3D"http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/spridgets/wes=
lake1330@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/=
spridgets/weslake1330@gmail.com</a><br> </blockquote></div> <hr>------------=
------------<br>
<br>
<span><a href=3D"mailto:spridgets@autox.team.net"; target=3D"_blank">spridget=
s@autox.team.net</a></span><span></span><br>
<br>
/www.team.net/donate.html</a><br>
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Archive: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/pipermail/spridgets"; target=3D"_blan=
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ts/grday@btinternet.com" target=3D"_blank">http://autox.team.net/mailman/opt=
ions/spridgets/grday@btinternet.com</a><br>
</blockquote></div></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div>
<span>------------------------</span><br><span></span><br><span>spridgets@au=
tox.team.net</span><br><span></span><br><span>Donate: http://www.team.net/do=
nate.html</span><br><span>Suggested annual donation: $12.75</span><br><span>=
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Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/spridgets http://autox.team.net/archive
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