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Re: [Tigers] Clutch - DANG IT!!!!!

To: MWood24020@aol.com, mark.rense@ge.com, rfraser@bluefrog.com, jay.laifman@gmail.com, tigers@autox.team.net
Subject: Re: [Tigers] Clutch - DANG IT!!!!!
From: MWood24020@aol.com
Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2013 12:14:46 -0400 (EDT)
Delivered-to: mharc@autox.team.net
Delivered-to: tigers@autox.team.net
Full-name: MWood24020
Should have been clear...I'm talking about clutch MC, only. The possibility 
 of the o-ring rolling isn't an issue in the shorter throw of the brake MC.
 
 
In a message dated 4/22/2013 9:12:19 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time,  
MWood24020@aol.com writes:

The  additives in Castrol LMA supposedly soften the o-rings (even EPDM) and 
  
allow them to roll. DOT 3 is commonly considered a better bet...at least  
that's  what we run in the Formula Fords and other race cars using  the 
Girling 
MC.


In a message dated 4/22/2013 8:08:01 A.M.  Pacific Daylight Time,  
mark.rense@ge.com writes:

Jay,
I  went through some of my SAE journals a while back to look  for the  real
skinny on brake fluids. DOT 5 is silicon based and is not   recommended for 
open
systems like those found on vintage cars. The DOT  5 is  non-hygroscopic so 
it
will not absorb moisture but since our  systems are  not sealed moisture 
gets in
and it collects in the  low spots of the system,  this will cause piston
corrosion in calipers  and scuffing of the piston  rubber in slaves. This 
may be
why your  Dad did the clutch but not the brake  system. A DOT 5 fluid is  
also
more compressible than a DOT 4 so the pedal  will feel spongier.  The only 
real
advantage to DOT 5 is that it will not  ruin paint  when (notice I didn't 
say
"if") the master/slave cylinder fails.  Even  though it is now a different
formula than of old, good old DOT 4   Castrol GTA/LMA it still glycol-based 
and
will help keep the rubber  piston  swollen.

The DOT 5.1 is a glycol-based fluid so it is also  hydroscopic,  its main 
claim
to fame is that it is a thinner  viscosity than DOT 4 which  is needed for 
some
ABS systems to be  able to rapid cycle in cold climates.  Not many OEM's 
use 
DOT
5, I  can only find reference to  Harley.

Dry Boiling Point     Wet Boiling Point (3% water)
DOT 3         401F                284F
DOT  4             446F    311F
DOT  5      500F               356F
DOT 5.1         518F       375F

The "wet" boiling point  is when the fluid has absorbed 3%  water by 
volume, 
a
feat that can be  accomplished on our cars over  one typical damp winter 
storage
period here  in the Midwest. Water  can diffuse in through the rubber brake
hoses as  well. Most of my  racer buddies have tried DOT 5 and have gone 
back to
the   racing-spec DOT 3 fluids that actually have higher dry boiling points 
  
than
DOT 5, they prefer the harder pedal feel.

I know many  Tiger  folks that have used DOT 5 without a problem, so it's 
up  
to
you. In your  climate moisture is not a big problem, I suggest  you stay 
with
the DOT 4  Castrol GTA/LMA for the brake system and  flush it every other 
year.
I made  a power bleeder by finding an  old master cylinder cap and fitting 
an
air  hose chuck. Fill the  reservoir and use about 10 psi to push out all 
the
old  fluid. I can  power bleed the brakes in about 1/2 hour.

As for your  clutch, you  will need to rebuild the slave for sure, so the
easiest way out  is to  do that and stay with the DOT 5, just don't mix the 
two
fluids  up!  Make sure you check inside the firewall for signs of the leaks 
 
from
either  MC as well.

Bugz

-----Original  Message-----
From:  tigers-bounces@autox.team.net  [mailto:tigers-bounces@autox.team.net]
On  Behalf Of Jay  Laifman
Sent: Sunday, April 21, 2013 11:19 PM
To: Tiger's   Den
Subject: [Tigers] Clutch - DANG IT!!!!!


I just did a  search  in the archives and found that my dad did put DOT 5 
in  
the
clutch.

Ok, so what do I do?  Rebuild the master  and   clutch?
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