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On the advice of the late great Randall Young, I tried it once and it =
worked !
=20
Andrew Uprichard
Jackson, Michigan
=20
From: Triumphs <triumphs-bounces@autox.team.net> On Behalf Of DAVID =
MASSEY
Sent: Tuesday, August 11, 2020 7:30 AM
To: fogbro1@comcast.net; grglmn@gmail.com; staffel@comcast.net
Cc: triumphs@autox.team.net
Subject: Re: [TR] TR4 Fuel Delivery Issue & Mod
=20
I've heard of people adding a second compression sleeve (acorn) cut in =
half to achieve the desired length. I haven't tried it myself since I =
got mine to seal up with the standard sleeve but if I had an issue that =
would have been my next step.
=20
Dave=20
=20
=20
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Tue, Aug 11, 2020 6:01 am
Subject: Re: [TR] TR4 Fuel Delivery Issue & Mod
And isn't it the brass "acorn" that seals the connection at the pump, =
not the threads? ISTR that the original "acorn" is a bit longer than the =
replacements available which limits compression and can cause a leak. At =
one time there was someone making a longer "acorn" to solve this =
problem. =20
=20
Ed Woods=20
On 08/10/2020 11:57 PM Greg Lemon <grglmn@gmail.com =
=20
=20
Just a couple random thoughts here. One, I could not figure out from =
your message where exactly you ended up putting the electric pump. My =
understanding is most electric pumps like to push better than the like =
to pull, MG and Healey pumps are mounted close to the tank and low in =
back, that would be a good place for the new TR electric pump. You seem =
somewhat concerned about originality. =20
=20
Second, mechanical pump rebuild kits are readily available and not too =
hard to fit. There are lots of things I remember about rebuilding my TR =
ten years ago, rebuilding the pump is not one of them, so it must have =
been fairly easy to do and worked (and has been working fine for ten =
years).=20
=20
Good Luck=20
=20
Greg Lemon=20
TR250=20
=20
=20
=20
On Mon, Aug 10, 2020, 10:43 PM staffel < staffel@comcast.net =
=20
Several years ago on an evening club drive in the Catoctin Mts of =
Maryland my TR4 developed running/ hesitation issues. Then it got dark & =
started to rain. Could not drive the car steady over 45mph. Typical fuel =
flow clogging issue symptoms. Fortunately we made it into Fredericksburg =
and a Motel.=20
=20
Next morning, still raining, the issue was apparent: in the bottom of =
the Glass fuel bowl- a pile of 'rust dust'. Cleaned the bowl & nursed =
the car home 30 miles, but it kept dying. Fortunately a Jag club friend =
came by and got his trailer & towed me home.=20
=20
Further examination determined sediment also in the CD carbs fuel bowls. =
So much for the fuel pump 'screen' being 'effective'.=20
=20
Also examination of the fuel pump (original) revealed a weak diaphragm, =
so while working on the carbs, ordered a new pump from TRF. =20
=20
A few months later got everything back together. The engine started =
right up & ran fine. But no matter how I tried to seal the threads on =
fuel feed of the original curved pipe inlet 'nut' to the new pump ( =
pipe dope, teflon tape, rtv) the leak wouldn't stop. =20
=20
Magnifying glass exam of the original Triumph Male pipe 'nut' and the =
female threaded bore of the new TRF pump revealed a slight thread =
mismatch - Chinese machining. It was not Metric either. =20
=20
So after talking with TRF, I decided to forget the mechanical pump and =
install an electric pump, ala Jaguar V12s & Jensen Healey / GTs (Lotus =
907).=20
=20
Well, I installed a couple of different new electric pumps adjacent =
to the mechanical pump.=20
=20
They would never 'self prime'. =20
=20
Now, returning to the project. I removed the mechanical pump, & DRAINED =
the tank of the old fuel. It seems that the gravity feed when the tank =
is less than 1/2 full requires the elec pump to be very low ( like the =
original input height of the original pump, to receive fuel. =20
=20
So I am redetailing the frame (cleaning & new paint) and securing the =
new fuel line, inline glass Filter & elec pump right on the frame. This =
allows the steel feed line from the tank ( after Dremel Tool cutting) to =
match the new location of the electric pump.=20
=20
Next will be modifying a new copper fuel line ( semblance of =
originality) to meet the elec pump feed right behind & adjacent to the =
Water pump. The original copper pipe mated to the back of the mechanical =
pump , ran up and forward along the engine at the cylinder head level to =
the front of the engine & then across to the carburetor feeds.=20
=20
Finally hope this resolves the fuel delivery issue.=20
=20
I wanted to share a warning about the TRF pump supplier manufacturing =
glitch. So others can not waste years getting their TRs back to =
Roadworthy status.=20
=20
Obviously not going to drive a car with weeping fuel near a hot engine. =
At least on the TR4 & 6s, ( unlike Jaguar 6s ( have 2) or V12s ( have =
3), Jensen GTs ( have 3) ; the exhaust Manifolds are on the opposite =
side of the engine. =20
=20
Sherman D Taffel =20
Columbia MD and Goldvein VA =20
65 TR4 CT 50054L=20
( per VTR the last known TR4 produced & shipped to USA)=20
=20
=20
Sent via the Samsung Galaxy S10, an AT&T 5G Evolution capable smartphone =
=20
=20
=20
Sent via the Samsung Galaxy S10, an AT&T 5G Evolution capable smartphone =
=20
Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs =
http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/grglmn@gmail.com=20
Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs =
http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/fogbro1@comcast.net=20
=20
Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs =
<http://www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs> http://www.team.net/archive
http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/dave1massey@cs.com
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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=3DEN-US link=3Dblue =
vlink=3Dpurple><div class=3DWordSection1><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;color:#1F497D'>On the =
advice of the late great Randall Young, I tried it once and it worked =
!<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Times New =
Roman",serif;color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-family:"Times New =
Roman",serif;color:#1F497D'>Andrew Uprichard<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-family:"Times New =
Roman",serif;color:#1F497D'>Jackson, Michigan<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-family:"Times New =
Roman",serif;color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b>From:</b> Triumphs =
<triumphs-bounces@autox.team.net> <b>On Behalf Of </b>DAVID =
MASSEY<br><b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, August 11, 2020 7:30 AM<br><b>To:</b> =
fogbro1@comcast.net; grglmn@gmail.com; staffel@comcast.net<br><b>Cc:</b> =
triumphs@autox.team.net<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [TR] TR4 Fuel Delivery =
Issue & Mod<o:p></o:p></p></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'>I'v=
e heard of people adding a second compression sleeve (acorn) cut in half =
to achieve the desired length. I haven't tried it myself since I =
got mine to seal up with the standard sleeve but if I had an issue that =
would have been my next step.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'><o:=
p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'>Dav=
e </span><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'><o:=
p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'><o:=
p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'><o:=
p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'>---=
--Original Message-----<br>From: EDWARD WOODS <<a =
href=3D"mailto:fogbro1@comcast.net";>fogbro1@comcast.net</a>><br>To: =
Greg Lemon <<a =
href=3D"mailto:grglmn@gmail.com";>grglmn@gmail.com</a>>; staffel =
<<a =
href=3D"mailto:staffel@comcast.net";>staffel@comcast.net</a>><br>Cc: =
Triumphs <<a =
href=3D"mailto:triumphs@autox.team.net";>triumphs@autox.team.net</a>><b=
r>Sent: Tue, Aug 11, 2020 6:01 am<br>Subject: Re: [TR] TR4 Fuel Delivery =
Issue & Mod<o:p></o:p></span></p><div =
id=3Dyiv6420788603><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#33333=
3'>And isn't it the brass "acorn" that seals the connection at =
the pump, not the threads? ISTR that the original "acorn" is a =
bit longer than the replacements available which limits compression and =
can cause a leak. At one time there was someone making a longer =
"acorn" to solve this problem. =
<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#33333=
3'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#33333=
3'>Ed Woods <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div =
id=3Dyiv6420788603yqtfd34247><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'>On =
08/10/2020 11:57 PM Greg Lemon <<a =
href=3D"mailto:grglmn@gmail.com";>grglmn@gmail.com</a>> wrote: =
<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'><o:=
p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'><o:=
p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'>Jus=
t a couple random thoughts here. One, I could not figure out from =
your message where exactly you ended up putting the electric pump. =
My understanding is most electric pumps like to push better than the =
like to pull, MG and Healey pumps are mounted close to the tank and low =
in back, that would be a good place for the new TR electric pump. =
You seem somewhat concerned about originality. =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'><o:=
p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'>Sec=
ond, mechanical pump rebuild kits are readily available and not too hard =
to fit. There are lots of things I remember about rebuilding my TR =
ten years ago, rebuilding the pump is not one of them, so it must have =
been fairly easy to do and worked (and has been working fine for ten =
years). <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'><o:=
p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'>Goo=
d Luck <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'><o:=
p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'>Gre=
g Lemon <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'>TR2=
50 <o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'><o:=
p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'><o:=
p> </o:p></span></p></div></div></div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'><o:=
p> </o:p></span></p><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'>On =
Mon, Aug 10, 2020, 10:43 PM staffel < <a =
href=3D"mailto:staffel@comcast.net"; =
target=3D"_blank">staffel@comcast.net</a>> wrote: =
<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'><o:=
p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'>Sev=
eral years ago on an evening club drive in the Catoctin Mts of =
Maryland my TR4 developed running/ hesitation issues. Then it got dark =
& started to rain. Could not drive the car steady over 45mph. =
Typical fuel flow clogging issue symptoms. Fortunately we made it into =
Fredericksburg and a Motel. <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'><o:=
p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'>Nex=
t morning, still raining, the issue was apparent: in the bottom of =
the Glass fuel bowl- a pile of 'rust dust'. Cleaned the bowl & =
nursed the car home 30 miles, but it kept dying. Fortunately a Jag club =
friend came by and got his trailer & towed me home. =
<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'><o:=
p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'>Fur=
ther examination determined sediment also in the CD carbs fuel bowls. So =
much for the fuel pump 'screen' being 'effective'. =
<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'><o:=
p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'>Als=
o examination of the fuel pump (original) revealed a weak diaphragm, so =
while working on the carbs, ordered a new pump from TRF. =
<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'><o:=
p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'>A =
few months later got everything back together. The engine started =
right up & ran fine. But no matter how I tried to seal the threads =
on fuel feed of the original curved pipe inlet 'nut' to the new =
pump ( pipe dope, teflon tape, rtv) the leak wouldn't stop. =
<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'><o:=
p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'>Mag=
nifying glass exam of the original Triumph Male pipe 'nut' and the =
female threaded bore of the new TRF pump revealed a slight thread =
mismatch - Chinese machining. It was not Metric either. =
<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'><o:=
p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'>So =
after talking with TRF, I decided to forget the mechanical pump and =
install an electric pump, ala Jaguar V12s & Jensen Healey / GTs =
(Lotus 907). <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'><o:=
p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'>Wel=
l, I installed a couple of different new electric =
pumps adjacent to the mechanical pump. =
<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'><o:=
p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'>The=
y would never 'self prime'. <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'><o:=
p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'>Now=
, returning to the project. I removed the mechanical pump, & DRAINED =
the tank of the old fuel. It seems that the gravity feed when the tank =
is less than 1/2 full requires the elec pump to be very low ( like the =
original input height of the original pump, to receive fuel. =
<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'><o:=
p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'>So =
I am redetailing the frame (cleaning & new paint) and securing the =
new fuel line, inline glass Filter & elec pump right on the =
frame. This allows the steel feed line from the tank ( after Dremel Tool =
cutting) to match the new location of the electric pump. =
<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'><o:=
p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'>Nex=
t will be modifying a new copper fuel line ( semblance of originality) =
to meet the elec pump feed right behind & adjacent to the Water =
pump. The original copper pipe mated to the back of the mechanical pump =
, ran up and forward along the engine at the cylinder head level to the =
front of the engine & then across to the carburetor feeds. =
<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'><o:=
p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'>Fin=
ally hope this resolves the fuel delivery issue. =
<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'><o:=
p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'>I&n=
bsp; wanted to share a warning about the TRF pump supplier manufacturing =
glitch. So others can not waste years getting their TRs back to =
Roadworthy status. <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'><o:=
p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'>Obv=
iously not going to drive a car with weeping fuel near a hot engine. At =
least on the TR4 & 6s, ( unlike Jaguar 6s ( have 2) or V12s ( have =
3), Jensen GTs ( have 3) ; the exhaust Manifolds are on the opposite =
side of the engine. <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'><o:=
p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'>She=
rman D Taffel <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'>Col=
umbia MD and Goldvein VA <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'>65 =
TR4 CT 50054L <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'>( =
per VTR the last known TR4 produced & shipped to USA) =
<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'><o:=
p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'><o:=
p> </o:p></span></p></div><div =
id=3D"yiv6420788603m_-6070975799002559859composer_signature"><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:8.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#575757'>Se=
nt via the Samsung Galaxy S10, an AT&T 5G Evolution capable =
smartphone <o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'><o:=
p> </o:p></span></p></div></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'><o:=
p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'><o:=
p> </o:p></span></p></div><div =
id=3D"yiv6420788603m_-6070975799002559859composer_signature"><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:8.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#575757'>Se=
nt via the Samsung Galaxy S10, an AT&T 5G Evolution capable =
smartphone <o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'><o:=
p> </o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'>** =
<a href=3D"mailto:triumphs@autox.team.net"; =
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