[6pack] Floorpan replacement and Rust repair quote...

Wed Jun 10 15:45:48 MDT 2015

sorry to be the overly precise one here.  the word is HYGROSCOPIC, not hydroscopic.  hydroscopic refers to a hydroscope.

yes, its wrong on their web site.  we should all call them and tell them of their mistake!  their phone number is 800-442-0335.  they are closed now, so first thing in the morning . . .

when pouring, use a large screwdriver or anything flat and long to prevent air bubbles.

From: J B via 6pack 
Sent: Wednesday, June 10, 2015 12:14 PM
To: Jim Jones ; James_ ; 6pack at autox.team.net 
Subject: Re: [6pack] Floorpan replacement and Rust repair quote...

Great question about the floors that I am also contemplating. I like seeing all the responses to the questions. 

I did not know the answer but I found a good answer online that matched other responses from (I have no link/business to them) : www.muskegonbrake.com

Converting to silicone brake fluid has pros and cons, all of which should be considered before making the transition.. To start with, there are a few very good reasons to convert to DOT5 silicone brake fluid:

  a.. Silicone fluid is non-hydroscopic (it doesn’t attract or absorb water) 
  b.. It will not ruin paint (glycol fluid will remove paint) 
  c.. Silicone brake fluid has a higher dry boiling point than DOT3 and DOT4 fluid, providing better, more rugged performance under pressure 
  d.. Silicone is a full synthetic fluid with superior lubrication properties for the pistons in the braking system (reduces wear on the seals and pistons)

As great as all this sounds, there are a few drawbacks as well:

  a.. Silicone brake fluid does not mix with water, so any water that enters the system will travel to the lowest point (low point in caliper ore line) 
  b.. It will not mix with glycol based DOT3, DOT4, or DOT5.1 fluids (can create a gel, damaging braking system if mixed) 
  c.. Silicone brake fluid cannot be used in ABS braking systems

These drawbacks should be taken into consideration before you switch, to make sure that a) your auto's braking system is up for the conversion, and b) the conversion to silicone brake fluid is done properly to ensure no damage is done to the vehicle.

The best time to convert to silicone brake fluid is when you are replacing the major brake system components, especially the master cylinder and calipers.  Installing our Super Brake Kit is a great example. With the Super Brake Kit, you will replace all four calipers, rubber hoses, and the master cylinder, removing all brake fluid from the system and allowing for an easy conversion.

When pouring silicone brake fluid, do so slowly.  DOT5 fluid has the ability to become aerated easily, which means that when handled quickly it can develop small bubbles.  Pouring slowly to minimize splashing is best. Similarly, it has been suggested that if you uncap a bottle of DOT5 the day before you plan to work on the vehicle, it will allow any trapped air bubbles to rise to the top and dissipate.

When bleeding the brakes, use nice, even strokes to minimize the cavitation, which can create air bubbles. Alternatively, gravity bleeding is another way to reduce the amount of air bubbles in the system.

Hope this helps.

JB
Long live team 6pack!

On Wednesday, June 10, 2015 9:25 AM, Jim Jones via 6pack <6pack at autox.team.net> wrote:

James:

These are not particularly rare cars (yet) so it's hard to make a case for the kind of repair this British car "artiste" is pushing. Objectively speaking, this guy is so stubbornly set in his ways that I would walk away from him - no run!

I had a moment of truth like that with my car. It was there in plain sight when I drove 700 miles to buy it - fiberglass patch on the panel beneath the battery. It was not exactly pristine correct but it was solid. I had to make a decision then, but I did buy it. After all the other work I did on the car it was NOT an item that ever caused me concern. Frankly, if I was faced with doing that same repair I probably would have done the same thing.

What I'm saying here is that if you enjoy your car and are otherwise happy with it, save yourself some money and have it fixed in whatever way that makes sense. Like paint and modifications, repairs can be re-done by future owners.

PS - Silicone fluid is just fantastic!

Jim Jones 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: James_ via 6pack <6pack at autox.team.net>
To: "6pack at autox.team.net" <6pack at autox.team.net> 
Sent: Tuesday, June 9, 2015 3:42 PM
Subject: [6pack] Floorpan replacement and Rust repair quote...

Hi all…

First….I am so depressed - I may sell the TR6 and walk away….seriously…even after 22 years of my entire adult life.

I just met and got a quote from a guy that generally works on Austin Healey's…and I gather he does very high end work….and accustom to people with deep pockets.
So that was probably my mistake, but still is probably the best approach to have work done 100% thorough and correct.

First: I was told floor pans require the car body to be off the frame to replace.
First overwhelming thought…body of the car? ugh.

Second: I have a few bad spots of rust that need panels fabricated and welded. The worse is under the master cylinder and rust has
eaten through the inner and outer wheel arch. It affects the pedal box too.
(I can send a picture if anyone is interested)

So the guy was really wanting the body removed, sand blasted, panels repaired and powder coated.
Sounds awesome. But it all gets down to time and money. a LOT of money and the rest of the year.
Roughly, looking at $10-20K. for a TR6. yikes. Not sure I love the car that much. I know repairing old cars will ALWAYS cost more than a car is worth.
I know that. Don't lecture about that. But...my rust is not a 'rust bucket' by any means. And for $20K I can find a car that comes close to showroom condition!!!

I guess I am so depressed / disappointed / overwhelmed / sad / hmmmm….what else…

…I am at a loss as to what to do. One option: Say screw it and live with the rotten areas, put the car back to gather and drive it.
or:
Sell the dang thing and walk away. Maybe I finally reached that "mercy…mercy…no more…make it stop" stage.
- I doubt I could bring myself to buy a TR6 again….I mean, what's the point. Mine isn't THAT awful and  I know the history of THIS car.

Or:
another option….(my original desire/thought) is to have the areas repaired and new floor boards installed by someone that does a really good welding job 
but not nearly as intense of a procedure or expensive. I know…you get what you pay for. 

This winter: I removed everything from the engine to detail it out and everything is ready to go back in once the rust was fixed and engine bay painted.
At this point, I may as well sell off all the PARTS - they'd be worth more they the car as a whole at this point. And everything is removed!
(only half kidding….)

Oh, one more thing….
this guy is DEAD set against my thought of switching to Silicone brake fluid. I mean, DEAD set against and talking about warranty being voided if I use it.
I looked at him and said: "What Warranty is that?" "It isn't like there is a dealership I can go to" "I buy parts, I put them on." I am the warranty department!
He mentioned the warranty of the parts I buy from Moss, etc. hmmmm….They void it if the silicone falls the parts.
Really? Moss SELLS Silicone brake fluid. 
I suspect all this is because his DAD is against Silicone and he just follows what his dad hates. 

I was recently curious why auto stores don't seem to carry DOT 5 Silicone as much as the other types. So now with this restoration guy's comments…is Silicone THAT bad/poorly rated?

Well, any advice or words of comfort?

James

1976 TR6 

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