FW: [Shotimes] Energy Suspension Bushings

[Ron Porter]

Absolutely. And I'll put "driving technique" at the top of the list. FWIW,
there are always numerous discussions on the 911 list about this, but in
short, the driver's skills/abilities/techniques are about the greatest
factor on a given car, as people learn when one of the instructors takes
them for a ride IN THEIR OWN CAR.

Even with the limited (compared to a bunch of racers on these lists)
suspension upgrading I've done on my cars, my gut hunch is that absolute
cornering ability was only really affected by tire choice. The "other stuff"
(springs, struts, bars, etc) was really more of a "feel" thing.

Still one of the best track performance things to do...after better
tires....is better brakes!!

Ron Porter 

-----Original Message-----
From: shotimes-admin@autox.team.net [mailto:shotimes-admin@autox.team.net]
On Behalf Of Leigh Smith
Sent: Sunday, May 18, 2003 11:39 AM
To: Ron DeReus
Cc: Shotimes
Subject: Re: FW: [Shotimes] Energy Suspension Bushings


There is no use "arguing" over under or oversteer impressions. Oversteer 
or understeer impressions of any particular suspension tuning 
combination can never be answered with finite accuracy since much of the 
decision is dependent on individual driver style and dependent on the 
rest of the car. I'll offer up a list of indivdual components that can 
be adjusted and will alter the feel of the cars oversteer / understeer 
balance, assuming the SAME springs & sway bars. I'll guarantee (You) (or 
I) could make Any car vary from gross Oversteer to gross Understeer by 
changing just some of these other factors, without touching the 
springs/sway bars. Been there, done that. ...Hmm, maybe suspension 
tuning would make an interesting session at the convention....

Leigh

Tire brand
tire pressures overall
tire pressure split front/rear
Tire width
tire diameter
tire aspect ratio
tire temperatures
wheel width
wheel diameter
wheel weight
track surface
sway bar links
sway bar bushings
subframe bushings
various suspension bushings
inherent chassis stiffness
strut bars
subframe connectors
roll cage
Shock brand
shock adjustments
shock adjustment split fr/rr
brake proportioniong valve adjustments
rear parking brake adjustments
ride height adjustments
caster settings
camber settings
toe-in settings
late braking
early braking
early turn-in
late turn-in
early throttle on
late throttle on
slow steering wheel movement
fast steering movement
steering wheel spool valve
spring spacers
wheel spacers
wheel offset
corner weighting
weight jacking
battery location
trunk stuff
gas level

...I'm sure there are more...



Ron DeReus wrote:

>Showdown at Black Hawk Farms, guys?  hmmmmm.....
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: shotimes-admin@autox.team.net
>[mailto:shotimes-admin@autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Ron Porter
>Sent: Saturday, May 17, 2003 9:51 PM
>To: 'van Oss'; 'James F. Ryan III'; 'shotimes'
>Subject: RE: [Shotimes] Energy Suspension Bushings
>
>
>Well, I disagree.
>
>Example #1: Green '95 MTX with 24/26, Koni/Eibach on Firm, AL SFB, H-brace.
>For Summit Point and my favorite off-ramps that I take at 50-70 mph, the
>24/26 works VERY well.
>
>Example #2 that I'm working on: New '94 MTX with Tokico/Eibach and long
SFCs
>welded in. Per Randy Smith, oversteer can be induced easily since he had
the
>SFCs welded in (this car has the stock '94 bars, which I assume are the
>20.6mm bamboo poles). I am looking at transferring my 24/26 bars over. I
may
>try the 26mm rear alone first, but I suspect the 24/26 combo may work
>better. BTW, I will also be transferring the AL SFBs.
>
>I agree with the autocross guys in using a small front bar for lower-speed
>neutral handling, but my on/off-ramp work, plus the tracks we do, make me
>believe the 24/26 works better.
>
>No offense, but (1) you guys may do curves slower than I do, and (2) you
may
>have a different driving technique.
>
>Ron Porter
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: shotimes-admin@autox.team.net [mailto:shotimes-admin@autox.team.net]
>On Behalf Of van Oss
>Sent: Saturday, May 17, 2003 8:44 PM
>To: James F. Ryan III; iceman@cmgate.com; 'shotimes'
>Subject: Re: [Shotimes] Energy Suspension Bushings
>
>
>Jim, I agree!  My 92 did not become a neutral handler until it got the
20/26
>combo.  BTW this is a car with stock diff, SHO SHOP linear front springs,
>Eibach rear, and 4 Tokicos.
>
>Joseph van Oss
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>Also, my '91+ came with the 24/26 setup from the factory and I've never
been
>happy with the handling - understeer.  I once drove a '90 LX wagon (rental
>car) and was amazed that it handled better than my SHO!!!
>
>I recently bought a 22mm and a 20.5mm FSB and I'm looking forward to
testing
>both of them.  When I do, the ES poly bushings will finally be thrown away
>and I'll try rubber bushings on the front and TPR bushings on the rear.
>
>As always, YMMV.  Some people like the combo you're installing, but I vote
>No for the 24/26 setup and No for the ES poly bushings.
>
>Jim Ryan
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