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Re: [Fot] CAR RACING & DEATH

To: "Kas Kastner" <kaskas@cox.net>, <Gt6steve@aol.com>, <budscars@comcast.net>,
Subject: Re: [Fot] CAR RACING & DEATH
From: "Jeff Snook" <jsnook@wcnet.org>
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2008 15:09:19 -0500
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I resemble that remark!!

Jeff Snook
www.snooksdreamcars.com
  ----- Original Message -----=20
  From: Kas Kastner=20
  To: Gt6steve@aol.com ; budscars@comcast.net ; Billb@bnj.com ; =
standardtriumph@btinternet.com=20
  Cc: fot@autox.team.net ; bdischer@blakedischer.com=20
  Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 1:49 PM
  Subject: Re: [Fot] CAR RACING & DEATH


  If you start thinking about death and racing at the same time you had =
best take up another sport like snooker.
    ----- Original Message -----=20
    From: Gt6steve@aol.com=20
    To: budscars@comcast.net ; Billb@bnj.com ; =
standardtriumph@btinternet.com=20
    Cc: fot@autox.team.net ; bdischer@blakedischer.com=20
    Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 6:36 PM
    Subject: Re: [Fot] CAR RACING & DEATH



    Hi Bud,

    I assume your diatribe is colored with liquor as is my response.

    We all know in the backs of our minds that death is a reasonable =
possibility in our game.  Worse than that, debilitating injury, IMHO. =20

    Nonetheless, we endure, do all we can to improve our chances and try =
not to face it with ourselves or our families.  But it is there.  It =
could happen.  We don't want it to happen but it could.  Our wives have =
already thought this through and seen the possibilities.  They still =
support our crazy assed efforts to win.  So are we lesser than they?  =
Maybe we're better at rationalizing...

    Still, we'll all be pulling on the nomex and denying that it could =
happen to us while our wives know full well what is at stake.

    So do we quit racing and take up backgammon?  Some will, most won't. =
 We are a kind of warrior and we can't leave that.  We'll just leave =
homage to our brethren, clash shields and move on...Steve

    In a message dated 9/24/2008 6:11:18 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, =
budscars@comcast.net writes:
      Hi Gang....Here It Is.......Straight Out....CAR RACING AND =
DEATH....I've kept  kinda' Quiet about the subject ..Regarding  Deaths =
in Vintage Racing...and have Layed Back and contemplated things as I've =
read the numerous emails......
      The Essence of Race Driving is to go as fast as we can to win!
      Some of us will die doing that.....That's just the way it =
is....That's REALLY the way it is.!.....

      Vintage...Who the heck knows who's driving over their heads or =
not?...No Way To Tell.....
      Racer Bud's Conclusion..I.f the  word DANGER creeps into your mind =
very often..DO NOT RACE.......=20

      Racer Bud..Spitfire #21

    In a message dated 9/24/2008 6:11:18 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, =
budscars@comcast.net writes:
      Hi Gang....Here It Is.......Straight Out....CAR RACING AND =
DEATH....I've kept  kinda' Quiet about the subject ..Regarding  Deaths =
in Vintage Racing...and have Layed Back and contemplated things as I've =
read the numerous emails......
      The Essence of Race Driving is to go as fast as we can to win!
      Some of us will die doing that.....That's just the way it =
is....That's REALLY the way it is.!.....

      Vintage...Who the heck knows who's driving over their heads or =
not?...No Way To Tell.....
      Racer Bud's Conclusion..I.f the  word DANGER creeps into your mind =
very often..DO NOT RACE.......=20

      Racer Bud..Spitfire #21


        ----- Original Message -----=20
        From: Bill Babcock=20
        To: John Macartney=20
        Cc: fot@autox.team.net ; bdischer@blakedischer.com=20
        Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 5:10 PM
        Subject: Re: [Fot] VTR & FoT


        You wrote the email I thought of writing but decided not to. =
Personally, the only clubs I really want to belong to are the ones that =
have a bar, a restaurant (good one), a pool table and a library (in my =
case that's the Arlington Club, a truly great establishment here in =
Portland), and the ones like the FOT, where no twinkie with a claptrap =
P.O.S. excuse for a LBC gets up at every meeting and rants about =
parliamentary procedure and whether or not they have a quorum to decide =
on tuna fish sandwiches for the picnic. =20


        I always thought the VTR existed to document the provenance =
(however modest) of cars. The rest seems kind of ancillary. It's not the =
cars that are diminishing, it's the members--if nothing else they are =
kicking the bucket. No disrespect meant for those that love their clubs, =
but   unless these clubs get a lot more interesting, and figure out ways =
to get the self-important twinkies to shut up, there won't be critical =
mass of people younger than 60 taking part.=20


        FOT part of VTR (or any other "real" organization)--perish the =
thought.=20


        On Sep 24, 2008, at 12:40 PM, John Macartney wrote:


          Andy Mace wrote:
          This does raise an interesting possibility, were FoT members =
so inclined: perhaps we could become some sort of "Special Chapter" or =
"Affiliate" of VTR?

          I take a very 'broad church view' on issues like this, =
essentially summarised as follows:

          1. It doesn't really matter how you use your Triumph (or =
Standard) and because of that, there should be room in your local or =
national club to accommodate your usage preference.
          2. The vehicle parc is getting smaller each year and current =
owners are getting older. This largely explains the diminution of club =
memberships
          3. A surprisingly large number of cars will outlive their =
enthusiast custodians and will need to have 'a home'
          4. Clubs (national or local) need to recognise this - and its =
my perception in the UK that clubs don't adequately do this
          5. There will come a time when the vehicle parc and custodian =
base is so small that clubs as they currently stand will probably not be =
viable as heretofore. This begs the question
          6. What plans are national clubs making to address that =
inevitable eventuality?
          7. No-one can confidently expect to substantially 'grow club =
membership.' The vast majority of cars that will survive are already =
known. Barn-Finds will become ever more infrequent

          With regard to point 6, my perception of the evidence as it =
relates to the UK (and probably elsewhere too?) is "nothing at all." =
Additionally, for as long as clubs and others continue to provide 'free' =
technical information on "How to .....?" projects via the internet, =
clubs will continue to diminish in size.

          Rant off

          Jonmac



          _______________________________________________
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        Bill Babcock
        Babcock & Jenkins
        Billb@bnj.com
        503.936.7660
        www.bnj.com


        Editor
        Ke Nalu e-Magazine
        Paddlesurfing's Web Journal


        Bill@kenalu.com
        www.kenalu.com
        blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog




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9/24/2008 6:29 AM

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<BODY id=3Drole_body style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #000000; =
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<DIV><FONT face=3DTahoma color=3D#000080 size=3D4>I resemble that=20
remark!!</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DTahoma color=3D#000080 size=3D4></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D4>Jeff Snook<BR></FONT><A=20
href=3D"http://www.snooksdreamcars.com";><FONT=20
size=3D4>www.snooksdreamcars.com</FONT></A></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000080 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
  <DIV=20
  style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
  <A title=3Dkaskas@cox.net href=3D"mailto:kaskas@cox.net";>Kas =
Kastner</A> </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=3DGt6steve@aol.com =

  href=3D"mailto:Gt6steve@aol.com";>Gt6steve@aol.com</A> ; <A=20
  title=3Dbudscars@comcast.net=20
  href=3D"mailto:budscars@comcast.net";>budscars@comcast.net</A> ; <A=20
  title=3DBillb@bnj.com href=3D"mailto:Billb@bnj.com";>Billb@bnj.com</A> =
; <A=20
  title=3Dstandardtriumph@btinternet.com=20
  =
href=3D"mailto:standardtriumph@btinternet.com";>standardtriumph@btinternet=
.com</A>=20
  </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Cc:</B> <A =
title=3Dfot@autox.team.net=20
  href=3D"mailto:fot@autox.team.net";>fot@autox.team.net</A> ; <A=20
  title=3Dbdischer@blakedischer.com=20
  =
href=3D"mailto:bdischer@blakedischer.com";>bdischer@blakedischer.com</A> =
</DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, September 25, =
2008 1:49=20
  PM</DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Fot] CAR RACING =
&amp;=20
  DEATH</DIV>
  <DIV><BR></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT size=3D3>If you start thinking about death and racing at =
the same=20
  time you had best take up another sport like snooker.</FONT></DIV>
  <BLOCKQUOTE=20
  style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
    <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
    <DIV=20
    style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
    <A title=3DGt6steve@aol.com=20
    href=3D"mailto:Gt6steve@aol.com";>Gt6steve@aol.com</A> </DIV>
    <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A =
title=3Dbudscars@comcast.net=20
    href=3D"mailto:budscars@comcast.net";>budscars@comcast.net</A> ; <A=20
    title=3DBillb@bnj.com =
href=3D"mailto:Billb@bnj.com";>Billb@bnj.com</A> ; <A=20
    title=3Dstandardtriumph@btinternet.com=20
    =
href=3D"mailto:standardtriumph@btinternet.com";>standardtriumph@btinternet=
.com</A>=20
    </DIV>
    <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Cc:</B> <A =
title=3Dfot@autox.team.net=20
    href=3D"mailto:fot@autox.team.net";>fot@autox.team.net</A> ; <A=20
    title=3Dbdischer@blakedischer.com=20
    =
href=3D"mailto:bdischer@blakedischer.com";>bdischer@blakedischer.com</A> =
</DIV>
    <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, September =
24, 2008=20
    6:36 PM</DIV>
    <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Fot] CAR RACING =
&amp;=20
    DEATH</DIV>
    <DIV><BR></DIV><FONT id=3Drole_document face=3DArial color=3D#000000 =
size=3D2>
    <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
    <DIV>
    <DIV>Hi Bud,</DIV>
    <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
    <DIV>I assume your diatribe is colored with liquor as is my =
response.</DIV>
    <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
    <DIV>We all know in the backs of our minds that death is a =
reasonable=20
    possibility in our game.&nbsp; Worse than that, debilitating injury, =

    IMHO.&nbsp; </DIV>
    <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
    <DIV>Nonetheless, we endure, do all we can to improve our chances =
and try=20
    not to face it with ourselves or our families.&nbsp; But it is =
there.&nbsp;=20
    It could happen.&nbsp; We don't want it to happen but it =
could.&nbsp; Our=20
    wives have already thought this through and seen the =
possibilities.&nbsp;=20
    They still support our crazy assed efforts to win.&nbsp; So are we =
lesser=20
    than they?&nbsp; Maybe we're better at rationalizing...</DIV>
    <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
    <DIV>Still, we'll all be pulling on the nomex and denying that it =
could=20
    happen to us while our wives know full well what is at stake.</DIV>
    <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
    <DIV>So do we quit racing and take up backgammon?&nbsp; Some will, =
most=20
    won't.&nbsp; We are a kind of warrior and we can't leave that.&nbsp; =
We'll=20
    just leave homage to our brethren, clash shields and move =
on...Steve</DIV>
    <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
    <DIV>
    <DIV>In a message dated 9/24/2008 6:11:18 P.M. Pacific Daylight =
Time,=20
    budscars@comcast.net writes:</DIV>
    <BLOCKQUOTE=20
    style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: blue 2px =
solid"><FONT=20
      style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" color=3D#000000 size=3D2>
      <DIV><FONT size=3D2>Hi Gang....Here It Is.......Straight =
Out....CAR RACING=20
      AND DEATH....I've kept&nbsp; kinda'&nbsp;Quiet about the subject=20
      ..Regarding&nbsp; Deaths in Vintage Racing...and have Layed Back =
and=20
      contemplated things&nbsp;as I've read the numerous=20
      emails......</FONT></DIV>
      <DIV><FONT size=3D2>The Essence of Race Driving is to go as fast =
as we can=20
      to win!</FONT></DIV>
      <DIV><FONT size=3D2>Some of us will die doing that.....That's just =
the way=20
      it is....That's REALLY the way it is.!.....</FONT></DIV>
      <DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
      <DIV><FONT size=3D2>Vintage...Who the heck knows who's driving =
over their=20
      heads or not?...No Way To Tell.....</FONT></DIV>
      <DIV><FONT size=3D2>Racer Bud's Conclusion..I.f the&nbsp; word =
DANGER creeps=20
      into your mind very often..DO NOT RACE....... </FONT></DIV>
      <DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
      <DIV><FONT size=3D2>Racer Bud..Spitfire #21</FONT></DIV>
      <DIV><FONT =
size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV></FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV></DIV>
    <DIV>
    <DIV>In a message dated 9/24/2008 6:11:18 P.M. Pacific Daylight =
Time,=20
    budscars@comcast.net writes:</DIV>
    <BLOCKQUOTE=20
    style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: blue 2px =
solid"><FONT=20
      style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" face=3DArial =
color=3D#000000 size=3D2>
      <DIV><FONT size=3D2>Hi Gang....Here It Is.......Straight =
Out....CAR RACING=20
      AND DEATH....I've kept&nbsp; kinda'&nbsp;Quiet about the subject=20
      ..Regarding&nbsp; Deaths in Vintage Racing...and have Layed Back =
and=20
      contemplated things&nbsp;as I've read the numerous=20
      emails......</FONT></DIV>
      <DIV><FONT size=3D2>The Essence of Race Driving is to go as fast =
as we can=20
      to win!</FONT></DIV>
      <DIV><FONT size=3D2>Some of us will die doing that.....That's just =
the way=20
      it is....That's REALLY the way it is.!.....</FONT></DIV>
      <DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
      <DIV><FONT size=3D2>Vintage...Who the heck knows who's driving =
over their=20
      heads or not?...No Way To Tell.....</FONT></DIV>
      <DIV><FONT size=3D2>Racer Bud's Conclusion..I.f the&nbsp; word =
DANGER creeps=20
      into your mind very often..DO NOT RACE....... </FONT></DIV>
      <DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
      <DIV><FONT size=3D2>Racer Bud..Spitfire #21</FONT></DIV>
      <DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
      <DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
      <BLOCKQUOTE=20
      style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
        <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- =
</DIV>
        <DIV=20
        style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
        <A title=3Dmailto:Billb@bnj.com =
href=3D"mailto:Billb@bnj.com";>Bill=20
        Babcock</A> </DIV>
        <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A=20
        title=3Dmailto:standardtriumph@btinternet.com=20
        href=3D"mailto:standardtriumph@btinternet.com";>John =
Macartney</A> </DIV>
        <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Cc:</B> <A=20
        title=3Dmailto:fot@autox.team.net=20
        href=3D"mailto:fot@autox.team.net";>fot@autox.team.net</A> ; <A=20
        title=3Dmailto:bdischer@blakedischer.com=20
        =
href=3D"mailto:bdischer@blakedischer.com";>bdischer@blakedischer.com</A>=20
        </DIV>
        <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, =
September 24, 2008=20
        5:10 PM</DIV>
        <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Fot] VTR =
&amp;=20
        FoT</DIV>
        <DIV><BR></DIV>You wrote the email I thought of writing but =
decided not=20
        to. Personally, the only clubs I really want to belong to are =
the ones=20
        that have a bar, a restaurant (good one), a pool table and a =
library (in=20
        my case that's the Arlington Club, a&nbsp;truly&nbsp;great =
establishment=20
        here in Portland), and the ones like the FOT, where no twinkie =
with a=20
        claptrap P.O.S. excuse for a LBC gets up at every meeting and =
rants=20
        about&nbsp;parliamentary&nbsp;procedure and whether or not they =
have a=20
        quorum to decide on tuna fish sandwiches for the picnic.&nbsp;=20
        <DIV><BR></DIV>
        <DIV>I always thought the VTR existed to document the provenance =

        (however modest) of cars. The rest seems kind of ancillary. It's =
not the=20
        cars that are diminishing, it's the members--if nothing else =
they are=20
        kicking the bucket. No disrespect meant for those that love =
their clubs,=20
        but &nbsp; unless these clubs get a lot more interesting, and =
figure out=20
        ways to get the self-important twinkies to shut up, there won't =
be=20
        critical mass of people younger than 60 taking part.&nbsp;</DIV>
        <DIV><BR></DIV>
        <DIV>FOT part of VTR (or any other "real" =
organization)--<B>perish the=20
        thought</B>.&nbsp;</DIV>
        <DIV><BR>
        <DIV>
        <DIV>On Sep 24, 2008, at 12:40 PM, John Macartney =
wrote:</DIV><BR=20
        class=3DApple-interchange-newline>
        <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite"><SPAN class=3DApple-style-span=20
          style=3D"WORD-SPACING: 0px; FONT: 14px Helvetica; =
TEXT-TRANSFORM: none; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); TEXT-INDENT: 0px; WHITE-SPACE: =
normal; LETTER-SPACING: normal; BORDER-COLLAPSE: separate; orphans: 2; =
widows: 2; webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; =
webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: =
none; webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; webkit-text-stroke-width: 0">
          <DIV style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial"=20
          rightmargin=3D"7" topmargin=3D"7" leftmargin=3D"7" =
bgcolor=3D"#ffffff"=20
          bottommargin=3D"7">
          <DIV><FONT size=3D3>Andy Mace wrote:</FONT></DIV>
          <DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#000000 size=3D3>This does =
raise an=20
          interesting possibility, were FoT members so inclined: perhaps =
we=20
          could become some sort of "Special Chapter" or "Affiliate" of=20
          VTR?</FONT></DIV>
          <DIV><FONT size=3D3></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
          <DIV><FONT size=3D3>I take a very 'broad church view' on =
issues like=20
          this, essentially summarised as follows:</FONT></DIV>
          <DIV><FONT size=3D3></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
          <DIV><FONT size=3D3>1. It doesn't really matter how you use =
your Triumph=20
          (or Standard) and because of that, there should be room in =
your local=20
          or national club to accommodate your usage =
preference.</FONT></DIV>
          <DIV><FONT size=3D3>2. The vehicle parc is getting smaller =
each year and=20
          current owners are getting older. This largely explains the =
diminution=20
          of club memberships</FONT></DIV>
          <DIV><FONT size=3D3>3. A surprisingly large number of cars =
will outlive=20
          their enthusiast custodians and will need to have 'a=20
home'</FONT></DIV>
          <DIV><FONT size=3D3>4. Clubs (national or local) need to =
recognise this=20
          - and its my perception in the UK that clubs don't adequately =
do=20
          this</FONT></DIV>
          <DIV><FONT size=3D3>5. There will come a time when the vehicle =
parc and=20
          custodian base is so small that clubs as they currently stand =
will=20
          probably not be viable as heretofore. This begs the=20
          question</FONT></DIV>
          <DIV><FONT size=3D3>6. What plans are national clubs making to =
address=20
          that inevitable eventuality?</FONT></DIV>
          <DIV><FONT size=3D3>7. No-one can confidently expect to =
substantially=20
          'grow club membership.' The vast majority of cars that will =
survive=20
          are already known. Barn-Finds will become ever more=20
          infrequent</FONT></DIV>
          <DIV><FONT size=3D3></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
          <DIV><FONT size=3D3>With regard to point 6, my perception of =
the=20
          evidence as it relates to the UK (and probably elsewhere too?) =
is=20
          "nothing at all."&nbsp;Additionally, for as long as clubs and =
others=20
          continue to provide 'free' technical information on "How to =
.....?"=20
          projects via the internet, clubs will continue to diminish in=20
          size.</FONT></DIV>
          <DIV><FONT size=3D3></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
          <DIV><FONT size=3D3>Rant off</FONT></DIV>
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          <DIV><FONT size=3D3>Jonmac</FONT></DIV>
          <DIV><FONT size=3D3></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
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webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: =
none; webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px">
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        style=3D"WORD-WRAP: break-word; webkit-nbsp-mode: space; =
webkit-line-break: after-white-space"><SPAN=20
        class=3DApple-style-span=20
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webkit-line-break: after-white-space">
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webkit-line-break: after-white-space">
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        href=3D"mailto:Billb@bnj.com";>Billb@bnj.com</A></DIV>
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        class=3DApple-style-span size=3D3><SPAN class=3DApple-style-span =

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        Journal</I></SPAN></FONT></FONT></DIV>
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        <DIV>blog: <A title=3Dhttp://www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog=20
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