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Was it wheel barrows before the covered wagons?
Jim
_____
From: fot-bounces@autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces@autox.team.net] On
Behalf Of DANNY D FORGEY
Sent: Thursday, October 02, 2008 4:05 PM
To: triumph fot
Subject: Re: [Fot] Studebaker stories
Real vintage Studebaker. While doing geologic mapping in the White-Inyo
Mountains in California, we used an abandoned mining cabin, circa 1900, as a
base camp. So remote that it was unmolested by thieves and still had a
relic Studebaker Wheelbarrow along with other items that were left there. I
understand that Mr. Studebaker got his start making wheelbarrows.
We left it as we found it but would be surprised if is still in the same
condition today.
Dan Forgey
_____
From: westerneagleracing@att.net
To: budscars@comcast.net
Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2008 19:12:42 +0000
CC: fot@autox.team.net
Subject: Re: [Fot] Studebaker stories
Bud,
In 1953 and 54 they were either Comanders (V-8) or Champions (6 cly) in 55
they added the President and beginning in1956 they were mildly restyled and
given various Hawk names.
It's funny but a lot of TR owners are Studebaker lovers as well.
Ron Western Eagle Racing Jacobs
-------------- Original message from "RACER BUD" <budscars@comcast.net>:
--------------
Thanks Bob..for the Terrific history...I am forwarding it to my Newsletter
Group
Racer Bud
----- Original Message -----
From: Robert Johns <mailto:rjohns@woh.rr.com>
To: RACER BUD <mailto:budscars@comcast.net> ; Steven
<mailto:spreiss@verizon.net> Preiss ; edwardbarnard@prodigy.net
Cc: fot@autox.team.net
Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2008 7:45 PM
Subject: Studebaker stories
All right guys, you have done it. I am going to have to tell you my tale of
woe. Visualize this! I was attending the Swiss Auto Club Racing Drivers
School in Monza, Italy in 1956. After we attended classes, they grouped us
in classes (more like bunches) to do some racing.
After Studebaker had merged with Packard, they built a variation of the Hawk
with the huge Packard engine of the day. What did I know of such things?
I was stuck in Europe at the time. Guess what they stuck in the class with
me, one of these monsters.
Off we went, racing our little hearts out. Me in my little TR2, the Stude
(model?) Hawk, and several more interesting pieces of iron. That Stude
would blow my doors off going down the straight and I would pass him on the
next set of curves. Back and forth we went, and I think I finally got far
enough ahead of him that he didn't catch me again.
Speaking of interesting iron. That race was my first and only experience of
running against a genuine Austin Healy S (not M, but S). They were not
many built, and the Importer for Switzerland had this one, and it ran very
well, with its cross flow head and lots of tricks.
Any ways, that is my Studebaker story.
Bob Johns
----- Original Message -----
From: RACER <mailto:budscars@comcast.net> BUD
To: Steven Preiss <mailto:spreiss@verizon.net> ; edwardbarnard@prodigy.net
Cc: fot@autox.team.net
Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2008 9:12 PM
Subject: Re: [Fot] Non-LBC group question
One of my favorite cars for Style was the (I think 53 stude..Golden
Hawk?..no fins...when the fins were added..they were literaly 'attached')..i
saw a NASCAR Hawk in a movie theater lobby promoting a movie which I cannot
remember(mid -late 1950s)...That was one of the cars that added to the
racing bug
Racer Bud
----- Original Message -----
From: Steven <mailto:spreiss@verizon.net> Preiss
To: edwardbarnard@prodigy.net
Cc: fot@autox.team.net
Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2008 2:04 AM
Subject: Re: [Fot] Non-LBC group question
One of my neighborhood friends growing up was a Studebaker nut, a passion
(or perhaps a genetic trait) no doubt inherited from his dad. They would
work into the night in the carport on one or another of their cars,
droplights providing a weary glow. The cars, which as I recall ranged from a
1950 convertible, painted red with a white top, to a sleek Silver Hawk with
a 289 and glass packs, always seemed exotic in an atypical American sort of
way. A buddy of theirs had what they referred to as 'the Studebaker farm',
which was actually a small dairy farm, the main pasture of which was lined
with over 100 Studebakers that had been hauled in from all over the
countryside and carefully placed side by side around the perimeter,
providing an endless supply of parts and projects. Martin was a somewhat
laconic fellow who carpeted his cars with an array of carpet "chucks"
gleaned from a local flooring company. He also was the first in our group of
carpoolers to drive his own car to school. Some wild rides down narrow
curving residential streets are emblazoned in my memory. One striking
characteristic of the cars was the overdrives, activated by a little toggle
switch always placed inconspicuously under the dash. Another was their
propensity for burning oil, which meant that the dipstick became a familiar
friend. Which leads me to the point. Whether a result of unintentional poor'
design or intentional daily abuse, cans of STP were always kept in the
trunks of the cars, along with quarts of inexpensive motor oil, giving true
meaning to the term, "Studebaker Tested Products"!
STeve P. ----- Original Message -----
From: EDWARD BARNARD <mailto:edwardbarnard@prodigy.net>
To: ehusmann53@yahoo.com ; dkettler@tcbi.com
Cc: FOT <mailto:fot@autox.team.net>
Sent: Thursday, October 02, 2008 3:44 AM
Subject: Re: [Fot] Non-LBC group question
Lister's: Thank you to all that answered my question about STP. A call to
their H.Q. public relations office this morning has revealed what we should
assume is the truth. The STP does stand for Scientifically Treated
Petroleum. The Wiki reference to it standing for Studebaker Tested Products
is in fact true. The company did tie their name to the product for a short
time until Andy G. took over. But, the Wiki reference to King Richard no
longer being a spokeperson for the company is false. According to the P.R.
department, they have the longest commercial endorse in history.
Thanks again to the list!
-Ed-
--- On Tue, 9/30/08, David Kettler <dkettler@tcbi.com> wrote:
From: David Kettler <dkettler@tcbi.com>
Subject: Re: [Fot] Non-LBC group question
To: ehusmann53@yahoo.com
Cc: "FOT" <fot@autox.team.net>, edwardbarnard@prodigy.net
Date: Tuesday, September 30, 2008, 9:52 PM
I recall when I was a kid collecting STP stickers at gas stations.
I always understood it to be Scientifically Tested Products.
Dave Kettler
At Tuesday, 30 September 2008, Ernest Husmann <ehusmann53@yahoo.com>
wrote:
>Ed:
>
>From STP's web page: STP = Scientifically Treated Petroleum--- On
Tue, 9/30/08, EDWARD BARNARD <edwardbarnard@prodigy.net> wrote:
>From: EDWARD BARNARD <edwardbarnard@prodigy.net>Subject: [Fot] Non-
LBC group questionTo: "FOT" <fot@autox.team.net>Date: Tuesday,
September
30, 2008, 11:06 AM
>
>Lister's: I'm writing a magazine article about Indy roadsters
(Kurtis',
Novi', etc) and am examining the Studebaker/Packard powered cars.
In 1963 Studebaker purchased from three gentlemen a little known
company named Chemical Compounds, which had an oil additive product
they were selling from the trunks of their cars. Studebaker gave
Andy Granatelli, then head engineer and chief test driver for Studebaker
the position of CEO of the newly acquired company which he then renamed
STP. Now my question...does anyone know for certain the meaning of
STP? I am getting mixed answers from The Racing History Group. Most
say it stands for Specially Treated Petroleum, while a few are saying
it stands for Studebaker Test Products. Do any of the FOTers know
the "true" side of the story?
>BTW, later I will relate this past Saturday spent with three great
guys, Johnny Rutherford, Lloyd Ruby, and Jim McElreath, at a car
show we had.
>Thanks - Ed - _______________________________________________
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<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D453361822-02102008><FONT face=3D=
Arial =
color=3D#0000ff>Was it wheel barrows before the covered wagons? =
</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D453361822-02102008><FONT face=3D=
Arial =
color=3D#0000ff></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D453361822-02102008><FONT face=3D=
Arial =
color=3D#0000ff></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D453361822-02102008><FONT face=3D=
Arial =
color=3D#0000ff>Jim</FONT></SPAN></DIV><BR>
<DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader lang=3Den-us dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft>
<HR tabIndex=3D-1>
<FONT face=3DTahoma><B>From:</B> fot-bounces@autox.team.net =
[mailto:fot-bounces@autox.team.net] <B>On Behalf Of </B>DANNY D =
FORGEY<BR><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, October 02, 2008 4:05 PM<BR><B>To:</B> =
triumph =
fot<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Fot] Studebaker stories<BR></FONT><BR></DIV>=
<DIV></DIV>Real vintage Studebaker. While doing geologic mapping i=
n the =
White-Inyo Mountains in California, we used an abandoned mining cab=
in, =
circa 1900, as a base camp. So remote that it was unmolested by =
thieves and still had a relic Studebaker Wheelbarrow along wit=
h other =
items that were left there. I understand that Mr. Studebaker got h=
is start =
making wheelbarrows.<BR> <BR>We left it as we found it but would be=
=
surprised if is still in the same condition today. <BR> <BR>Da=
n =
Forgey<BR><BR><BR>
<HR>
<BR>From: westerneagleracing@att.net<BR>To: budscars@comcast.net<BR>Date=
: Thu, 2 =
Oct 2008 19:12:42 +0000<BR>CC: fot@autox.team.net<BR>Subject: Re: [Fot] =
=
Studebaker stories<BR><BR><BR>
<META content=3D"Microsoft SafeHTML" name=3DGenerator>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV>Bud,</DIV>
<DIV>In 1953 and 54 they were either Comanders (V-8) or Champions (6 cly=
) in 55 =
they added the President and beginning in1956 they were mildly restyled =
and =
given various Hawk names.</DIV>
<DIV>It's funny but a lot of TR owners are Studebaker lovers as =
well.</DIV>
<DIV>Ron Western Eagle Racing Jacobs</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE =
style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px s=
olid">-------------- =
Original message from "RACER BUD" <budscars@comcast.net>: ------=
-------- =
<BR><BR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial>Thanks Bob..for the Terrific history...I am fo=
rwarding =
it to my Newsletter Group</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial>Racer Bud</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr =
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORD=
ER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV =
style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><=
B>From:</B> =
<A title=3Drjohns@woh.rr.com href=3D"mailto:rjohns@woh.rr.com";>Rober=
t Johns</A> =
</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=3Dbudscars@comca=
st.net =
href=3D"mailto:budscars@comcast.net";>RACER BUD</A> ; <A =
title=3Dspreiss@verizon.net href=3D"mailto:spreiss@verizon.net";>Stev=
en =
Preiss</A> ; <A title=3Dedwardbarnard@prodigy.net =
href=3D"mailto:edwardbarnard@prodigy.net";>edwardbarnard@prodigy.net<=
/A> </DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Cc:</B> <A title=3Dfot@autox.team=
.net =
href=3D"mailto:fot@autox.team.net";>fot@autox.team.net</A> </DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, October 01, =
2008 7:45 =
PM</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Studebaker stories</=
DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial>All right guys, you have done it. I am=
going to =
have to tell you my tale of woe. Visualize this! I was a=
ttending =
the Swiss Auto Club Racing Drivers School in Monza, Italy in 1956.&n=
bsp; =
After we attended classes, they grouped us in classes (more like bun=
ches) to =
do some racing. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial>After Studebaker had merged with Packard, th=
ey built a =
variation of the Hawk with the huge Packard engine of the day.&=
nbsp; =
What did I know of such things? I was stuck in Europe at=
the =
time. Guess what they stuck in the class with me, one of these=
=
monsters. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial>Off we went, racing our little hearts =
out. Me in my little TR2, the Stude (model?) Hawk, and se=
veral =
more interesting pieces of iron. That Stude would blow my=
doors =
off going down the straight and I would pass him on the next set of =
=
curves. Back and forth we went, and I think I finally got far =
enough =
ahead of him that he didn't catch me again. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial> </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial>Speaking of interesting iron. That rac=
e was =
my first and only experience of running against a genuine Austi=
n Healy =
S (not M, but S). They were not many built, and the Impo=
rter for =
Switzerland had this one, and it ran very well, with its cross=
flow =
head and lots of tricks.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial>Any ways, that is my Studebaker story.=
=
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial>Bob Johns</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial></FONT> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE =
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BO=
RDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV=
>
<DIV =
style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"=
><B>From:</B> =
<A title=3Dbudscars@comcast.net href=3D"mailto:budscars@comcast.ne=
t">RACER =
BUD</A> </DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=3Dspreiss@veri=
zon.net =
href=3D"mailto:spreiss@verizon.net";>Steven Preiss</A> ; <A =
title=3Dedwardbarnard@prodigy.net =
href=3D"mailto:edwardbarnard@prodigy.net";>edwardbarnard@prodigy.ne=
t</A> =
</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Cc:</B> <A title=3Dfot@autox.te=
am.net =
href=3D"mailto:fot@autox.team.net";>fot@autox.team.net</A> </DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, October 01=
, 2008 =
9:12 PM</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Fot] Non-LBC =
group =
question</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial>One of my favorite cars for Style was the =
(I think =
53 stude..Golden Hawk?..no fins...when the fins were added..they w=
ere =
literaly 'attached')..i saw a NASCAR Hawk in a movie theater lobby=
=
promoting a movie which I cannot remember(mid -late 1950s)...That =
was one =
of the cars that added to the racing bug</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial>Racer Bud</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE =
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </D=
IV>
<DIV =
style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: blac=
k"><B>From:</B> =
<A title=3Dspreiss@verizon.net href=3D"mailto:spreiss@verizon.ne=
t">Steven =
Preiss</A> </DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A =
title=3Dedwardbarnard@prodigy.net =
href=3D"mailto:edwardbarnard@prodigy.net";>edwardbarnard@prodigy.=
net</A> =
</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Cc:</B> <A title=3Dfot@autox.=
team.net =
href=3D"mailto:fot@autox.team.net";>fot@autox.team.net</A> </DIV>=
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, October =
01, 2008 =
2:04 AM</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Fot] Non-LB=
C group =
question</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>One of my neighborhood friends =
growing up =
was a Studebaker nut, a passion (or perhaps a genetic trait) no =
doubt =
inherited from his dad. They would work into the night in the ca=
rport on =
one or another of their cars, droplights providing a weary glow.=
The =
cars, which as I recall ranged from a 1950 convertible, pai=
nted red =
with a white top, to a sleek Silver Hawk with a 289 and glass pa=
cks, =
always seemed exotic in an atypical American sort of =
way. A buddy of theirs had what they referred to as =
'the Studebaker farm', which was actually a small dairy far=
m<FONT =
face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3>, the main pasture of which wa=
s lined with =
over 100 Studebakers that had been hauled in from all over the =
countryside and carefully placed side by side around the perimet=
er, =
providing an endless supply of parts and projects. Martin w=
as a =
somewhat laconic fellow who carpeted his cars with an array of c=
arpet =
"chucks" gleaned from a local flooring company. He also was the =
first in =
our group of carpoolers to drive his own car to school. Some wil=
d rides =
down narrow curving residential streets are emblazoned in my mem=
ory. One =
striking characteristic of the cars was the overdrives, activate=
d by a =
little toggle switch always placed inconspicuously under th=
e dash. =
Another was their propensity for burning oil, which meant that t=
he =
dipstick became a familiar friend. Which leads me to the point. =
=
Whether a result of unintentional poor' design or inte=
ntional =
daily abuse, cans of STP were always kept in the trunks of the =
cars, along with quarts of inexpensive motor oil, giving tr=
ue =
meaning to the term, "Studebaker Tested Products"!</FONT></FONT>=
</DIV>
<DIV>STeve P. ----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE =
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px=
; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV =
style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: bl=
ack"><B>From:</B> =
<A title=3Dedwardbarnard@prodigy.net =
href=3D"mailto:edwardbarnard@prodigy.net";>EDWARD BARNARD</A> <=
/DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=3Dehusmann=
53@yahoo.com =
href=3D"mailto:ehusmann53@yahoo.com";>ehusmann53@yahoo.com</A> =
; <A =
title=3Ddkettler@tcbi.com =
href=3D"mailto:dkettler@tcbi.com";>dkettler@tcbi.com</A> </DIV>=
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Cc:</B> <A title=3Dfot@auto=
x.team.net =
href=3D"mailto:fot@autox.team.net";>FOT</A> </DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, October=
02, 2008 =
3:44 AM</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Fot] Non-=
LBC group =
question</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<TABLE cellSpacing=3D0 cellPadding=3D0 border=3D0>
<TBODY>
<TR>
<TD vAlign=3Dtop>
<DIV>Lister's: Thank you to all that answered my questio=
n about =
STP. A call to their H.Q. public relations office this m=
orning =
has revealed what we should assume is the truth. The STP=
does =
stand for Scientifically Treated Petroleum. The Wiki ref=
erence =
to it standing for Studebaker Tested Products is in fact=
true. =
The company did tie their name to the product for a shor=
t time =
until Andy G. took over. But, the Wiki reference to King=
Richard =
no longer being a spokeperson for the company is false. =
=
According to the P.R. department, they have the longest =
=
commercial endorse in history. </DIV>
<DIV>Thanks again to the list!</DIV>
<DIV> -Ed-<BR><BR>--- On <B>Tue, 9/30/08, David =
<SPAN>Kettler</SPAN> <I><dkettler@tcbi.com></I></B=
> =
wrote:<BR></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE =
style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEF=
T: rgb(16,16,255) 2px solid">From: =
David Kettler <dkettler@tcbi.com><BR>Subject: Re=
: [Fot] =
Non-LBC group question<BR>To: ehusmann53@yahoo.com<BR>=
Cc: =
"FOT" <fot@autox.team.net>, =
edwardbarnard@prodigy.net<BR>Date: Tuesday, September =
30, =
2008, 9:52 PM<BR><BR><PRE>I recall when I was a kid co=
llecting STP stickers at gas stations.
I always understood it to be Scientifically Tested Products.
Dave Kettler
At Tuesday, 30 September 2008, Ernest Husmann <ehusmann53@yahoo.com&g=
t; =
wrote:
>Ed:
>
>From STP's web page: STP =3D Scientifically Treated Petroleum--- On =
=
Tue, 9/30/08, EDWARD BARNARD <edwardbarnard@prodigy.net> wrote:
>From: EDWARD BARNARD <edwardbarnard@prodigy.net>Subject: [Fot]=
Non-
LBC group questionTo: "FOT" <fot@autox.team.net>Date: Tuesday,
September =
30, 2008, 11:06 AM
>
>Lister's: I'm writing a magazine article about Indy roadsters
(Kurtis',
Novi', etc) and am examining the Studebaker/Packard powered cars.
In 1963 Studebaker purchased from three gentlemen a little known =
company named Chemical Compounds, which had an oil additive product =
they were selling from the trunks of their cars. Studebaker gave =
Andy Granatelli, then head engineer and chief test driver for Stude=
baker =
the position of CEO of the newly acquired company which he then ren=
amed =
STP. Now my question...does anyone know for certain the meaning of =
STP? I am getting mixed answers from The Racing History Group. Most=
=
say it stands for Specially Treated Petroleum, while a few are saying =
it stands for Studebaker Test Products. Do any of the FOTers know =
the "true" side of the story? =
>BTW, later I will relate this past Saturday spent with three gr=
eat =
guys, Johnny Rutherford, Lloyd Ruby, and Jim McElreath, at a car =
show we had. =
>Thanks - Ed - _______________________________________________
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