When All 5 venues....(less the weird places like Jordan and Black rock)
agree on the Rules.... doesn't that Make this a WORLD in peace and Harmony?
Less those that Feel Sanctioning by FIA adds something to the credibility
That Means that 5 places in the world agree on what constitutes a RECORD
and Since they are here in America and Down Under... that makes it a WORLD
record.... Not a National Record.
Keith ( ahhh No I don't own any ) (got lots of ECTA Records does that
count?)
----------
> From: John Beckett <landspeedracer@email.msn.com>
> To: Wester S Potter <wspotter@jps.net>
> Cc: land-speed list <land-speed@autox.team.net>
> Subject: Sanctioning
> Date: Wednesday, March 01, 2000 11:28 AM
>
> Wes
>
> I agree, after being involved in land speed racing for more than a decade
I
> personally feel the FIA/FIM is a
> useless/meaningless/uninterested/organization when related to LSR. When
it
> come to Formula 1, well their obviously the premier organization.
>
> As an example, I think that Drag Racing Records should be certified by
the
> drag racing community, not FIA. Weather were talking about Soccer, Golf,
> Down Hill Skiing or what ever, those records should be certified by that
> sports community.
>
> Who is better suited to certify World/International Records involving
land
> speed racing, SCTA/BNI, USFRA or ECTA, or the FIA who doesn't even keep
an
> updated list of records, and how long does it take them to complete the
> certification? LSR, to them is a nuisance. We can do better on our own.
>
> As for rules. Yes we need rules, but not FIA rules. The one hour turn
> around, for example, although not a bad rule, is just not practical for
> anything except a private meets. And look at the lack of classes. SCTA
has
> been refining their rules for 60 years now, very practical, suitable and
> fair to all. They have basically been adopted by the boys down under
also.
>
> It's time the LSR community develops it's own standards and claims it's
> rightful place in Land Speed Racing WORLD record history and let the FIA
> race around their parking lots.
>
> John Beckett, LSR #79
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Wester S Potter" <wspotter@jps.net>
> To: "Malcolm Pittwood" <MPittwood@compuserve.com>
> Cc: "land-speed list" <land-speed@autox.team.net>
> Sent: Tuesday, February 29, 2000 6:52 PM
> Subject: Re: On line chat topic
>
>
> > Malcolm, List,
> > This always reminds me of the ball games when I was a kid when the one
who
> > owned the ball got mad about something and took his ball and went home.
> > The honor has generally gone out of the International record claiming
game
> > unless we all accept the same rules.
> > Accurate records are established as accurate timing equipment is used.
> When
> > Teddy Tetzlaff first ran on the Bonneville Salt Flats in 1914 his runs
> were
> > timed by a group of men holding stop watches. His stop watch timed
speed
> > was marginally faster than the same car had gone at Daytona (or Ormond
> > Beach) four years previously ... in the 147 MPH plus range. I have no
> > knowledge of how the car was timed at Daytona. The American Automobile
> > Association disallowed the Bonneville timing because they didn't accept
> > times using a stopwatch under ten miles or one hour in time.
> > When Ab Jenkins, Malcolm Campbell, George E. T. Eyston and John Cobb
were
> > fighting it out for flying mile and endurance records in the thirties
on
> the
> > salt, their timing was accepted by all parties involved including the
AAA
> > and USAC who timed and certified those records. This was because they
> were
> > all running at the same approximate time of year on the same course and
> each
> > was observing the others times and runs.
> > When Otto Crocker timed the runs at Bonneville Speed Week in the early
> > years, all the hot rod competetors accepted his times for the same
reason.
> > The Salt Lake City Chamber of Commerce who staged the races accepted
his
> > equipment.
> > With the advent of computer timing and the available print-outs it
depends
> > on the certification of the accuracy of the computer. We use a
software
> > program for USFRA that is a slight modification of the one used by NHRA
to
> > time drag racing. We could give reaction times, times for any distance
> > along the course, entry qualifying trap times, kilo, mile, exit trap
> times
> > and any combination of the above. All we have to do is accurately set
up
> > the electric eyes, distances and wire. SCTA/BNI clocks use software
that
> > gives the same accurate kind of readouts.
> > At one time the AAA, USAC, FIA and other governing bodies owned the
only
> > certified clocks and were used for record runs because they were
accepted
> by
> > all involved. Today my nine year old neighbor could write a software
> > program with a speed break down to several decimal points more accurate
> than
> > their timers were. The FIA officials who certify record runs just look
at
> > the set up and say OK. They don't even own clocks to time runs on the
> salt!
> > The whole world of speed claims is academic unless there is the HONOR
> > involved among racers running at different times on different courses
to
> use
> > accurate equipment, measurements and to follow accepted timing practice
> and
> > procedures.
> > Let the FIA play with their multi-million dollar Formula 1 toys and
> > politics. Who cares that they don't attempt to be up to date enough to
> have
> > defined classes for various body styles, fuels etc.? Other than
respect
> for
> > Andy Green and the whole Thrust program for what they acomplished, does
> > their wingless airplane record change anything essential with wheel
driven
> > racing? It's a lot like asking someone else to critique your bedroom
> > activities or asking an official from a Rugby federation to take over
the
> > NFL. Who needs them? We don't want someone like Bernie Ecclestone
(sp?)
> > sticking his nose in land-speed racing just as the FIA doesn't want
Gary
> > Allen or Mike Manghelli trying to dictate to their sport. If Nolan
> White's
> > 442 MPH time was clocked either two ways or two times as conditions
> > permitted, on accurate equipment ( and I believe it was ), would Al
> Teague
> > and Bill Summers and Don Vesco recognize his run as a wheel driven
record?
> > Would Andy Green ?
> > If the racers on Lake Gairdner, Australia this March turn in some
> > incredible, faster than existing record, times will the 200 MPH Club,
> > SCTA/BNI and USFRA recognize those times or more importantly will their
> > amateur land-speed racing peers in the USA?
> > That's my quarters worth.
> > Wes Potter ... speaking only as an involved watcher of land speed
racing
> for
> > over fifty years.
> > ----------
> > > From: Malcolm Pittwood <MPittwood@compuserve.com>
> > > To: "Land-speed@autox.team.net" <Land-speed@autox.team.net>
> > > Subject: On line chat topic
> > > Date: Tue, 29 Feb 2000 14:38:42 -0500
> > >
> > >Hi everyone,
> > >Due to the time difference with Britain I will not be able to join the
3
> am
> > >chat with a working day to follow.
> > >Just to help the topic of BNI/SCTA/USFRA times for runs, working time
in
> > >impound and FIM & FIA record attempts, heres by two pence worth.
> > >If your club or sanctioning body is not an affiliated body of the FIA
or
> > >FIM then why worry what you call your records. To these two World
> > >governing bodies you are just running club events for "local" records
-
> > >that may offend some of your organisers and many of the racers but
that
> is
> > >how they are seen. Remember there is no differentiation by body style
in
> > >their rules, only capacity divisions. Your 'local' record in the
classes
> > >may be faster than the FIA or FIM listings but these two bodies will
> never
> > >ever acknowledge them as International/World records.
> > >On four wheels, as Mike Jenkins explained last week there is only one
> > >"World Record" - the Thrust SSC outright speed of 763.035 mph. On two
> > >wheels there are FIA World Records for ALL capacity classes for the
> > >variety of distances and duration records.
> > >ACCUS is one USA based FIM affiliated organisation as is USAC but I do
> not
> > >know if they have any input into anything other than individual
ouright
> > >records. Perhaps someone could explain from your side of the pond why
> they
> > >are not at Bonneville ? The AMA is the USA motorcycle affiliated
body
> and
> > >they seem to interact only with the "Land Speed Authority"
organisation.
> > >Is that so ?
> > >The 'four hour maintenance working rule' in impound makes little sense
to
> > >me, as the return run to achieve a record is the day following the
first
> > >pass any way.
> > >The FIA 1 hour ruling and the FIM 2 hour ruling for 1 mile timed
> distances,
> > >is to ensure that the two runs occur in (almost) stable conditions on
one
> > >day - much more difficult to do ? Because little work is allowed by
> either
> > >sanctioning body except general safety checks and maintenance on the
> > >vehicle between runs you do not need time to "rebuild the vehicle from
> the
> > >ground up".
> > >With strong comments expressed on the list I do not expect to see any
> > >changes in the way the USA do things in general at Bonneville
meetings.
> > >Some US racers will dip deep into their pockets to get International
> > >(FIA/FIM) recognition because they can rightly be compared directly
with
> > >the best of the past. Brits will come across to your US deserts to
set
> > >World Records in their own events. Bonneville Speed Week will
continue
> > >for another 50 years as a wonderful sporting event. Can anyone see
this
> > >changing ?
> > >Have a good chat tonight.
> > >Malcolm Pittwood, Derby, England.
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
>
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