Thanks for the Protection there Tom.... but in my case it's deserved....
Dave is Privy to a couple of the associated problems that I might not have
fully spelled out here on the list....
I was running the car WAY to Lean and no matter what we did I couldn't seem
to get the EGTs down.... don't think it was a Timing issue as much as it was
a Crappy Fuel system again.... Somewhere in My Fuel system I have a
Restriction that isn't allowing it to Flow enough Gas when I start building
Power on the big end...
I really don't have much of a Problem on the learning curve side of this...
I can accept Burnt and Busted Pistons and the associated Parts I am going to
destroy learning...
BUT.... I honestly want to give the car a Fair shake at running well along
the way.... and each of these little problems we find .... well they tell me
that I simply didn't design some systems well enough in advance... Look at
what it took to have a Quality Ignition system....
I guess it's the same thing I said before and it bears repeating.... Being
CHEAP up front has sure cost me a Ton of Money ....
Keith ( yeah John... think if I had spent the money on a quick change up
front how much we could have saved in Gear sets.... when 10 quick change
gear sets cost less then 1 correctly set up 9" .. ain't being Cheap Grand )
----- Original Message -----
From: "Thomas E. Bryant" <saltracer@awwwsome.com>
To: "dahlgren" <dahlgren@uconect.net>
Cc: "John Beckett" <landspeedracer@email.msn.com>; "Hyatt Engineering Ltd."
<Hyatt-Engineering-Ltd@fuse.net>; <land-speed@autox.team.net>
Sent: Friday, August 25, 2000 4:49 PM
Subject: Re: MSD Detonation Detector and Cockpit Display Meter
> Don't be too hard on John and Keith. Being one that has burned &
> detonated lots of pistons, I have this to say...I know that I can run
> safe and always be an also ran, or I can push the envelope, experiment,
> go into uncharted waters and possibly get the edge. I know the price and
> I am willing to pay! Although preparation and caution are good words,
> all the prep in the world does not insure problem free runs.
>
> Nitrous is a dangerous game and the learning curve is steep. Until you
> find your limits problems will occur, but personally, I think it is
> worth it.
>
> Tom, Redding CA - #216 D/GCC
>
> dahlgren wrote:
> >
> > I will make a small wager that if for the most part if you set the
> > timing to something realistic rather 48 degrees and don't lean it out
> > when the egt's are high and use something that will measure the air fuel
> > ratio accurately starting with jets and nozzles that are in the ball
> > park that there are very few people that need any of this.... from most
> > of the stories i have heard on this list anyone with a burned piston
> > probably deserved it in the first place and certainly were not pushing
> > the envelope of engineering in any shape or form....... as far as knock
> > sensor triggering at high rpm or due to something that has nothing to do
> > with knock, been there done that a complete waste of time! Money could
> > be better spent by having Kinsler flow the injection or buying a carb
> > that is right to begin with or maybe even doing a little basic
> > engineering on the car to prevent 99% of all the burned up engines..
> > Dahlgren
> >
> > John Beckett wrote:
> > >
> > > Greg
> > >
> > > Neat stuff. Great info.
> > > A set of pistons, rings and a cylinder sleeve, however, are still
cheaper
> > > than the $30,000 for the super duper ignition system. The price will
come
> > > down with time, and other systems will get better too.
> > >
> > > John Beckett, LSR #79, E/FCC
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Hyatt Engineering Ltd." <Hyatt-Engineering-Ltd@fuse.net>
> > > To: "John Beckett" <landspeedracer@email.msn.com>;
<ARDUNDOUG@aol.com>;
> > > <land-speed@autox.team.net>
> > > Sent: Sunday, August 06, 2000 1:22 PM
> > > Subject: Re: MSD Detonation Detector and Cockpit Display Meter
> > >
> > > > I was just at the "Engine Expo 2000" in Hamburg and learned a little
more
> > > > about knock detection, so I need to clarify some miss-information I
> > > > previously supplied.
> > > > The problem with knock detection on racing engines apparently is not
> > > > primarily due to the less than optimum selection and calibration of
> > > > accelerometers as I previously reported. Even ideal accelerometers
are
> > > > problematic at high RPM as the normal mechanical noise in the engine
> > > starts
> > > > to fall into the same frequency spectrum as the knock, so the system
> > > cannot
> > > > differentiate between the two. If the system mistakes normal high
rpm
> > > engine
> > > > noise for knock it will unnecessarily retard the spark and steal HP.
> > > > Most engines tend to knock more around the peak in the torque curve
than
> > > at
> > > > max RPM though, so the things should work OK through the "normal"
RPM
> > > range
> > > > as long as they are suppressed at high speed.
> > > > If the knock detection does not work at typical engine speeds (even
with
> > > > nitro or nitrous) than there is a problem with the accelerometer or
> > > > software.
> > > > There is an ignition system available that can sense the changes in
> > > > ionization across the gap of the spark plug during detonation. In
this way
> > > > it can detect knock even at high rpm. The system even looks at each
plug
> > > > independently and automatically maps the optimal timing for each
cylinder
> > > .
> > > > Unfortunately the system is $30,000 per engine. Their only customers
have
> > > > been F1, not even the CART or NASCAR crews can afford them.
> > > > If anyone has 30 grand burning a hole in their pocket I can forward
the
> > > > source of the system to you !
> > > > Greg
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: "John Beckett" <landspeedracer@email.msn.com>
> > > > To: <ARDUNDOUG@aol.com>; <land-speed@autox.team.net>
> > > > Sent: Thursday, June 01, 2000 8:21 PM
> > > > Subject: Re: MSD Detonation Detector and Cockpit Display Meter
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > Doug
> > > > >
> > > > > >From what little I know about these things they work great on
street
> > > > > cars...are marginal on race cars...and I would guess about useless
with
> > > > > nitro.
> > > > >
> > > > > John Beckett, LSR #79
> > > > >
> > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > From: <ARDUNDOUG@aol.com>
> > > > > To: <land-speed@autox.team.net>
> > > > > Sent: Thursday, June 01, 2000 3:55 PM
> > > > > Subject: MSD Detonation Detector and Cockpit Display Meter
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > Group,
> > > > > > Has any body out there used the MSD detonation sensor on
nitro
> > > that
> > > > > has a
> > > > > > readout in the cockpit for the driver to see. Chuck Salmen has
one on
> > > > his
> > > > > > $um-Fun gas roadster and he likes it. What I don't know is how
they
> > > > would
> > > > > > react to nitro which is on the verge of detonating at all times.
> > > > > > Anybody had any
experience?...............................Doug
> > > King
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
>
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