On Tue, 9 Nov 1999, Jason Saini wrote:
> Great just what we need... another car running DS times. It seems like ES,
> GS and HS all run DS times. And sometimes they all run CS times! I remember
> when there used to be a difference in speed from DS through HS. If all the
> cars are running the same speed, then why aren't they all in the same class?
There's a good point here -- the index (pick your favorite) on DS, ES and
GS seems awfully close these days. On the other hand, there's no
guarantee that the same thing wouldn't happen even if the classes were
reshuffled and different cars came to the fore.
> Good example is the Type-R... when it first came out, it went straight to
> CSP. I don't know the particulars of how it got moved to GS, but it doesn't
> make sense. The car has stiffer springs/shocks and bigger swaybars/brakes
> than a stock GS-R, and they are in the same class? Huh? And the All-wheel
> drive turbo DSM cars in GS? 210 h.p. and all-wheel drive?
Sigh.... I'll admit, I've not actually driven a Type R. However, talking
to people who do doesn't make me feel oppressed in GS. If you look at
this year's Nationals results, there were as many Type Rs in the last half
of the results as in the front half. Closer to home, I got beaten (but
not always) this summer by a well-driven Type R, and regularly beat a
not-so-well driven one.
As far as the Integra GS-R goes, there are plenty of instances where
multiple variants of different performance are classed together. All V-8
pony cars, for example. Later model Corvettes 1st, 2d and 3d-generation
Preludes. That means some drivers are at a disadvantage (a 1st-gen
Prelude has an 72-hp engine propelling 2100 lbs -- the late 3d gens have
135 propelling 270...there's about a 9 lb/hp difference). Not all cars
can be at the front.
The DSM cars are an interesting case. Until 1997 or 1998, these were not
regarded as serious GS competitors. Too heavy, too much turbo lag, too
soft. Then a couple of people started seriously playing with them and it
became the "dominant" car in GS in 1998. Like the V-6 Camaro had been the
"dominant" car the year before, and the Type R the "dominant" car the year
after.
> That way GS could be fought
> out among similarly competitive cars... the Probe, MX-6, Camaro, GS-R, VW
> Corrado and Contour. All of these cars have very similar performance
> potential, and GS was shaping up to be a very competitive and interesting
> class...
IMO, GS is already a competitive and interesting class. Of the cars you
mentioned, there are plenty of Probes, MX-6s and Camaros doing pretty well
at the regional and divisional levels, based on a scan of results. VW
Corrados were pretty rare to begin with, which is probably why we don't
see more -- but a well-setup example should still do pretty well in the
hands of a decent driver.
The GS-R is still at a disadvantage in this company -- it suffers from the
same lack of torque the Type R does, only more so. The Contour? Come on
-- I *have* a V-6, 5-speed Mystique...a nice car (it's for sale, by the
way), but I'm not giving up my Prelude for it. Granted, the SVT Contours
are tighter, but they're still pretty heavy.
No...GS is just fine. I'm still convinced it's the *driver* that makes
the difference.
Jamie (not that driver this year, but still working)
'92 Prelude Si
Speed Demon Racing
http://www.mindspring.com/~jsculerati/sdr
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