Getting persoal is what brngs down this list, so please don't misinterpret
the following:
1) If an unnamed number of ESP pony cars are staying away from National's
because of the BMW's what does that prove. It is hard to prove a point on
what someone might have done :) The results this year should help prove the
case, but staying away doesn't help.
2) ANY driver who finishes in the top 10 or so in ANY class at Nationals
deserves it. They are a quality driver who finished in the spot they
earned, regardless of car. My drivng in Bob's BMW would still leave me in
the back of the pack. Judging someone's driving from 1000's of miles away
is an intertesting concept!
Dave
----- Original Message -----
From: Jeff Winchell <jwinchell@Giftspot.com>
To: 'Dave Kizerian' <davekizerian@hotmail.com>; <autox@autox.team.net>
Sent: Wednesday, September 13, 2000 2:16 PM
Subject: RE: M3 Out of ESP - No Longer a Controversy
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: Dave Kizerian [mailto:davekizerian@hotmail.com]
> >So what about the 4th place eagle talon? Should they boot him too? He
beat
> >Merridith?
>
> The best Talon entry was 2.5 seconds slower than the best ponycar entry.
The
> DSM's are fine in ESP. Fedja and Brian were 8 and 9 last year and this
year
> (not counting the M3s, the are 9 and 2 this year). This isn't an issue.
>
> JW> And lest the "ESP ponycar drivers are weak crowd continue their
whine",
> JW> Mark Daddio the god, took first place in FS (running in the heat right
> after
> JW> ESP ran) and his time would have been 16th in ESP.
>
> DK>What the hell does the place of somebody else in a different class have
> to
> DK>do with whether the M3 does or doesn't belong in ESP?
>
> My message referred to a COMMON criticism on this message board that said
> the ESP drivers/cars are weak because they are barely competitive with the
> top FS car/drivers. That's what Daddio's 1st place FS win has to do with
the
> M3s in ESP.
>
> JW> It is unfortunate that national champion level drivers were deprived a
> JW> national championship this year because of the SCCA's decision. Paula
> JW> Whitney and (probably) Eileen Lindberg should have had a ProSolo and
> Solo
> JW> National Championship. Mark Madaresh should have had his 2nd in a row.
>
> DK>So you're honestly saying that Bob Tunnell, Todd Green, Jim Leithauser,
> and
> DK>Patty Tunnell are NOT national level drivers?
>
> How do you get that interpretation?
>
> >I've been really happy listening to you pull ONLY the numbers, scores, HP
> >ratings, weights, Times, etc... That make the M3 look bad, and not ALL
of
> >the viable numbers.
>
> I've been refuting wrong information for months now as well as agreeing
when
> I've seen mistakes (as pointed out by others). There's one of those
messages
> yesterday in the M3 Launch Performance thread.
>
> >P.S. I do agree that the M3 should be moved out of ESP
>
> Well that's good. I'm not sure then why you are saying what you're saying
in
> the rest of the e-mail.
>
> >but saying that Bob and Patty aren't "national champion level drivers "
is
> BS.
>
> So is implying that I ever said that.
>
> OTOH, you can clearly infer from my statements that Todd Green is not a
> national champion level driver, and is not even close to a number of
people
> he beat in ESP today. Bob and Patty are great drivers. So are the national
> champions they beat by being unfairly classed. I hope the weather
conditions
> are nearly identical for the ASP,BSP,CSP, ASPL,BSPL,CSPL classes so we can
> see where the M3's would have likely placed if they had been classed in a
> class with closer performance capabilities.
>
>
>
>
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