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Re: [Healeys] Does synthetic oil leak more?

To: healeys@autox.team.net
Subject: Re: [Healeys] Does synthetic oil leak more?
From: Bob Spidell <bspidell@comcast.net>
Date: Fri, 17 Jan 2020 09:36:41 -0800
Delivered-to: mharc@autox.team.net
Delivered-to: healeys@autox.team.net
References: <1e3075643dd97af90042336283dc481b351510bd@> <2A208FF7DF574236AA64B57914B7350C@AllInOne>
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I've learned from experience--aka 'the hard way'--that there are 
'sealants' and 'adhesive sealants' (aka 'glue').  The adhesive 
sealants--while appropriate in some instances--can glue parts together, 
making them very hard to separate if the need arises.  My mechanic used 
black 'Right Stuff' and no gasket to seal my BJ8's pan to the block, and 
when I cracked the pan I hurt my elbow--apparently, permanently--sawing 
the pan off with a serrated knife.

This is known; there are some photos on the 'net of people lifting a SBC 
by the intake manifold, which had been 'sealed' to the heads with Right 
Stuff.

Bob

ps.  Re: "Even though the factory manual states not to use sealant 
around the casing seal of the brake ring ..."  When I rebuilt my BJ8's 
OD a couple years ago I found evidence that a sealant was used--it was 
brownish/orangeish--and since I bought the car with 64K miles on it I 
don't believe it had ever been apart before.  I used one of the silicone 
sealants, and last I checked I had no leaking at the brake ring.


On 1/13/2020 6:12 PM, Harold Manifold wrote:
> I agree it is very important to keep any foreign material out of the 
> overdrive unit. I have had good luck using Loctite Gasket Maker. See 
> attached picture. I believe it is a similar product to Permatex The 
> Right Stuff.
> Harold
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *From:* gradea1@charter.net [mailto:gradea1@charter.net]
> *Sent:* Monday, January 13, 2020 9:46 AM
> *To:* 'Robert Begani'; 'Harold Manifold'; 'warthodson@aol.com'; 
> '050.rpl@gmail.com'; 'healeys@autox.team.net'
> *Subject:* Re: [Healeys] Does synthetic oil leak more?
>
> Bob-that was another place the synthetic comes out...thru the threads. 
> If you use anything, like pipe sealer or PTFE (teflon) just be careful 
> not to get any near the entrance to your overdrive.  Overdrive oil 
> must be spotless due to the tiny drillings in the system. I was able 
> to fix my seeps elsewhere with Permatex "Right Stuff" but be careful 
> again to do a very neat job. I still recommend regular 30W non 
> detergent mineral oil (as does the factory book) to refill the trans 
> and OD. Some modern oils can foam in the overdrive and cause issues.
>
> Even though the factory manual states not to use sealant around the 
> casing seal of the brake ring-that will leak with most synthetics and 
> also seep with regular oil. Had to" Right stuff" the casing seam post 
> rebuild to stop that seeping. Another place synthetic runs out is at 
> the bottom casing plug. I do not have too much experience using 
> silicone gaskets.  I rebuilt with paper and aircraft sealer (old 
> school-but original).  I expected leaks or else it wouldn't be 
> authentic British. Hank
>
> -----------------------------------------
>
> From: "Robert Begani"
> To: "Harold Manifold"
> Cc:
> Sent: Monday January 13 2020 5:38:23AM
> Subject: Re: [Healeys] Does synthetic oil leak more?
>
> My problem is leaking from the brass drain fitting in the bottom of 
> the overdrive.  When I used motor oil eventually by tightening the 
> fitting, the drips would stop.  With the synthetic oil the drips will  
> not stop.  Over the summer, while the car was sitting in the garage, 
> there was a puddle in the plastic container I placed under the fitting 
> before leaving for cooler weather.  I just tightened the fitting a 
> little more and the drips are reduced to 2 per day.  Am thinking about 
> using a thread sealant on the fitting and RTV on the gaskets.  Or, is 
> there a silicone gasket available?
>
> Also, is a silicone gasket for the valve covers worth the expense to 
> stop leaking?  Or, a combination of silicone gasket and Ultra 
> Permatex?  I have aluminum alloy valve cover.
>
> Bob Begani
>
> *From:* Healeys <healeys-bounces@autox.team.net> *On Behalf Of *Harold 
> Manifold
> *Sent:* Saturday, January 11, 2020 11:51 AM
> *To:* warthodson@aol.com; 050.rpl@gmail.com; healeys@autox.team.net
> *Subject:* Re: [Healeys] Does synthetic oil leak more?
>
> Hello,
>
> All of your observations are a factor. Here are some comments from an 
> article about synthetic oil leaks:
>
> Synthetic oil WILL NOT cause leaks. It may however make already 
> worn-out gaskets/seals more evident, by leaking past them, and/or 
> cleaning any sludge and other gunk that was sealing the existing leak. 
> This is because Synthetic oil has much better cleaning properties, 
> flows much better than conventional oil, and hence also lubricates 
> much better than conventional oil (This is a good thing).
>
> I use a GL-4 synthetic gear oil in my transmission and it leaks. 
> Believe it not not one of the leak mechanisms is from the interior 
> along the bolts and drips from the bolt head on the exterior. I am 
> changing the gaskets on my transmission and trying bonded sealing 
> neoprene washers on the fasteners.
>
> I may be pursuing the impossible dream of a leak free Healey.... Harold
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> [mailto:warthodson@aol.com]
> *Sent:* Saturday, January 11, 2020 7:24 AM
> *Subject:* Does synthetic oil leak more?
>
> I am not a leak expert, but I find this hard to understand. For there 
> to be a leak there has to be a hole. Is it because the synthetic oil 
> molecules are smaller than the non-synthetic oil molecules? Given that 
> the "holes" come in different sizes this seems illogical. Is it 
> because the synthetic oil is more slippery? How is that measured? How 
> much more slippery is it?
>
> Gary Hodson
>
>


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    I've learned from experience--aka 'the hard way'--that there are
    'sealants' and 'adhesive sealants' (aka 'glue').  The adhesive
    sealants--while appropriate in some instances--can glue parts
    together, making them very hard to separate if the need arises.  My
    mechanic used black 'Right Stuff' and no gasket to seal my BJ8's pan
    to the block, and when I cracked the pan I hurt my
    elbow--apparently, permanently--sawing the pan off with a serrated
    knife.<br>
    <br>
    This is known; there are some photos on the 'net of people lifting a
    SBC by the intake manifold, which had been 'sealed' to the heads
    with Right Stuff.<br>
    <br>
    Bob<br>
    <br>
    ps.  Re: "Even though the factory manual states not to use sealant
    around the casing seal of the brake ring ..."  When I rebuilt my
    BJ8's OD a couple years ago I found evidence that a sealant was
    used--it was brownish/orangeish--and since I bought the car with 64K
    miles on it I don't believe it had ever been apart before.  I used
    one of the silicone sealants, and last I checked I had no leaking at
    the brake ring.<br>
    <br>
    <br>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 1/13/2020 6:12 PM, Harold Manifold
      wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote type="cite"
      cite="mid:2A208FF7DF574236AA64B57914B7350C@AllInOne">
      <meta content="text/html; charset=windows-1252"
        http-equiv="Content-Type">
      <meta name="GENERATOR" content="MSHTML 11.00.10570.1001">
      <div dir="ltr" align="left"><span class="905270702-14012020"><font
            size="2" face="Arial" color="#0000ff">I agree it is very
            important to keep any foreign material out of the overdrive
            unit. I have had good luck using Loctite Gasket Maker. See
            attached picture. I believe it is a similar product to
            Permatex The Right Stuff.</font></span></div>
      <div dir="ltr" align="left"><span 
class="905270702-14012020"></span> </div>
      <div dir="ltr" align="left"><span class="905270702-14012020"><font
            size="2" face="Arial" color="#0000ff">Harold</font></span></div>
      <br>
      <div class="OutlookMessageHeader" dir="ltr" lang="en-us"
        align="left">
        <hr tabindex="-1">
        <font size="2" face="Tahoma"><b>From:</b> <a 
class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" 
href="mailto:gradea1@charter.net";>gradea1@charter.net</a>
          [<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" 
href="mailto:gradea1@charter.net";>mailto:gradea1@charter.net</a>] <br>
          <b>Sent:</b> Monday, January 13, 2020 9:46 AM<br>
          <b>To:</b> 'Robert Begani'; 'Harold Manifold';
          '<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" 
href="mailto:warthodson@aol.com";>warthodson@aol.com</a>'; '<a 
class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" 
href="mailto:050.rpl@gmail.com";>050.rpl@gmail.com</a>';
          '<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" 
href="mailto:healeys@autox.team.net";>healeys@autox.team.net</a>'<br>
          <b>Subject:</b> Re: [Healeys] Does synthetic oil leak more?<br>
        </font><br>
      </div>
      Bob-that was another place the synthetic comes out...thru the
      threads. If you use anything, like pipe sealer or PTFE (teflon)
      just be careful not to get any near the entrance to your
      overdrive.  Overdrive oil must be spotless due to the tiny
      drillings in the system. I was able to fix my seeps elsewhere with
      Permatex "Right Stuff" but be careful again to do a very neat job.
      I still recommend regular 30W non detergent mineral oil (as does
      the factory book) to refill the trans and OD. Some modern oils can
      foam in the overdrive and cause issues.
      <div><br>
      </div>
      <div>Even though the factory manual states not to use sealant
        around the casing seal of the brake ring-that will leak with
        most synthetics and also seep with regular oil. Had to" Right
        stuff" the casing seam post rebuild to stop that seeping.
        Another place synthetic runs out is at the bottom casing plug. I
        do not have too much experience using silicone gaskets.  I
        rebuilt with paper and aircraft sealer (old school-but
        original).  I expected leaks or else it wouldn't be authentic
        British. Hank<br>
        <br>
        <p>-----------------------------------------</p>
        From: "Robert Begani" <rfbegani@gmail.com><br>
          To: "Harold Manifold"<br>
          Cc: <br>
          Sent: Monday January 13 2020 5:38:23AM<br>
          Subject: Re: [Healeys] Does synthetic oil leak more?<br>
          <br>
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          <div class="WordSection1">
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt;
                FONT-FAMILY: &quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif; COLOR:
                #1f497d">My problem is leaking from the brass drain
                fitting in the bottom of the overdrive.  When I used
                motor oil eventually by tightening the fitting, the
                drips would stop.  With the synthetic oil the drips
                will  not stop.  Over the summer, while the car was
                sitting in the garage, there was a puddle in the plastic
                container I placed under the fitting before leaving for
                cooler weather.  I just tightened the fitting a little
                more and the drips are reduced to 2 per day.  Am
                thinking about using a thread sealant on the fitting and
                RTV on the gaskets.  Or, is there a silicone gasket
                available?</span></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt;
                FONT-FAMILY: &quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif; COLOR:
                #1f497d"></span> </p>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt;
                FONT-FAMILY: &quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif; COLOR:
                #1f497d">Also, is a silicone gasket for the valve covers
                worth the expense to stop leaking?  Or, a combination of
                silicone gasket and Ultra Permatex?  I have aluminum
                alloy valve cover.</span></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt;
                FONT-FAMILY: &quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif; COLOR:
                #1f497d"></span> </p>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt;
                FONT-FAMILY: &quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif; COLOR:
                #1f497d">Bob Begani</span></p>
            <div>
              <div style="BORDER-TOP: #e1e1e1 1pt solid; BORDER-RIGHT:
                medium none; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; PADDING-BOTTOM:
                0in; PADDING-TOP: 3pt; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; BORDER-LEFT:
                medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in">
                <p class="MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> Healeys
                  <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" 
href="mailto:healeys-bounces@autox.team.net";>&lt;healeys-bounces@autox.team.net&gt;</a>
 <b>On Behalf
                    Of </b>Harold Manifold<br>
                  <b>Sent:</b> Saturday, January 11, 2020 11:51 AM<br>
                  <b>To:</b> <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" 
href="mailto:warthodson@aol.com";>warthodson@aol.com</a>; <a 
class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" 
href="mailto:050.rpl@gmail.com";>050.rpl@gmail.com</a>;
                  <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" 
href="mailto:healeys@autox.team.net";>healeys@autox.team.net</a><br>
                  <b>Subject:</b> Re: [Healeys] Does synthetic oil leak
                  more?</p>
              </div>
            </div>
            <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt;
                FONT-FAMILY: &quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif; COLOR: 
blue">Hello,</span></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt;
                FONT-FAMILY: &quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif; COLOR: blue">All
                of your observations are a factor. Here are some
                comments from an article about synthetic oil leaks:</span></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
            <p class="MsoNormal">Synthetic oil WILL NOT cause leaks. It
              may however make already worn-out gaskets/seals more
              evident, by leaking past them, and/or cleaning any sludge
              and other gunk that was sealing the existing leak. This is
              because Synthetic oil has much better cleaning properties,
              flows much better than conventional oil, and hence also
              lubricates much better than conventional oil (This is a
              good thing).</p>
            <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt;
                FONT-FAMILY: &quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif; COLOR: blue">I
                use a GL-4 synthetic gear oil in my transmission and it
                leaks. Believe it not not one of the leak mechanisms is
                from the interior along the bolts and drips from the
                bolt head on the exterior. I am changing the gaskets on
                my transmission and trying bonded sealing neoprene
                washers on the fasteners.</span></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt;
                FONT-FAMILY: &quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif; COLOR: blue">I
                may be pursuing the impossible dream of a leak free
                Healey.... Harold</span></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
            <div class="MsoNormal" style="TEXT-ALIGN: center; MARGIN:
              auto">
              <hr style="WIDTH: 100%; TEXT-ALIGN: center; size: 2px">
            </div>
            <p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt"><b><span
                  style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY:
                  &quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-serif">From:</span></b><span
                style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY:
                &quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-serif"> <a
                  href="mailto:warthodson@aol.com"; target="_blank"
                  moz-do-not-send="true">warthodson@aol.com</a> [<a
                  href="mailto:warthodson@aol.com"; target="_blank"
                  moz-do-not-send="true">mailto:warthodson@aol.com</a>]
                <br>
                <b>Sent:</b> Saturday, January 11, 2020 7:24 AM<br>
                <b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:manifold@telus.net";
                  target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">manifold@telus.net</a>;
                <a href="mailto:050.rpl@gmail.com"; target="_blank"
                  moz-do-not-send="true">050.rpl@gmail.com</a>; <a
                  href="mailto:healeys@autox.team.net"; target="_blank"
                  moz-do-not-send="true">healeys@autox.team.net</a><br>
                <b>Subject:</b> Does synthetic oil leak more?</span></p>
            <div>
              <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt;
                  FONT-FAMILY: &quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif; COLOR:
                  black">I am not a leak expert, but I find this hard to
                  understand. For there to be a leak there has to be a
                  hole. Is it because the synthetic oil molecules are
                  smaller than the non-synthetic oil molecules? Given
                  that the "holes" come in different sizes this seems
                  illogical. Is it because the synthetic oil is more
                  slippery? How is that measured? How much more slippery
                  is it?  </span></p>
              <div>
                <p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt"><span
                    style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY:
                    &quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif; COLOR: black">Gary
                    Hodson</span></p>
                <br>
              </div>
            </div>
          </div>
        </rfbegani@gmail.com></div>
      <pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">
</pre>
    </blockquote>
    <br>
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