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I think the real difference between the bucket lifters and the stock units i=
s the actual weight of the lifters.=20
There may be some impact on lifter bore wear due to the side loads of the pu=
shrods at a higher contact point on stock lifters compared to the bucket typ=
e but is probably minimal. Was that vague enough?=20
P
Sent from my iPhone
> On Aug 9, 2021, at 7:36 AM, Michael Oritt <michael.oritt@gmail.com> wrote:=
>=20
> =EF=BB=BF
> Bob--
>=20
> I should have added that this incident coincided with a recent lowering by=
DOT of lead and zinc contents and what might have been fine a year earlier w=
as no longer sufficient to protect the new cam and lifters. I'll certainly p=
lead guilty to the sometimes-specious thinking that "more is better", but on=
the other hand "less" is sometimes not enough, and therein lies the dilemma=
.
>=20
> Best--Michael Oritt
>=20
>> On Sun, Aug 8, 2021 at 11:00 PM Bob Spidell via Healeys <healeys@autox.te=
am.net> wrote:
>> Subject to debate. The literature I've seen from the oil companies stress=
that their products are carefully formulated, and adding anything to them i=
s not a good idea. Also, ZDDP was first used as a detergent, with its wear s=
urface protection a surprising side-effect (like how tetra-ethyl lead was ad=
ded to gas to increase octane rating, and its cushioning and protecting of v=
alve seats was a side-effect). But, it's human nature to think "If a little o=
f this is good, a lot HAS to be better," but it's not necessarily true. ZDDP=
is corrosive in high concentrations; the 'sweet spot' appears to be about 1=
,500PPM.=20
>>=20
>> Ordinarily, I'd attribute Michael's failed lifters (cam?) to improper bre=
ak-in, but I'm sure M used proper procedures, which makes this doubly myster=
ious and concerning. I don't know how bucket lifters would change the outcom=
e; their main benefit seems to be reduced wear of the block.
>>=20
>>=20
>> On 8/8/2021 6:19 PM, i erbs via Healeys wrote:
>>> Good practice
>>>=20
>>> Ira Erbs
>>> 1959 AH 100-6
>>> 1967 MGB
>>> Milwaukie, OR
>>>=20
>>> On Sun, Aug 8, 2021, 6:09 PM Alan Seigrist <healey.nut@gmail.com> wrote:=
>>>> So adding zddp on top of whatever is in there is okay? I have Castrol 2=
0W-50 in my motor... also use the Valvoline too.
>>>>=20
>>>> On Sat, Aug 7, 2021 at 11:11 PM Michael Oritt via Healeys <healeys@auto=
x.team.net> wrote:
>>>>> In about 2007 just before ZDDP content in motor oils became a commonly=
talked-about issue in vintage racing communities, I bought a new race engin=
e for my MGA-powered Elva Courier from a reputable builder who recommended I=
use Mobil 1. Somewhere during the first race weekend performance fell off a=
nd upon disassembly it was determined that the cam lobes had been damaged du=
e to wear from the lifters. =20
>>>>>=20
>>>>> After replacing the cam and lifters I began using RP racing oil and th=
rowing in ZDDP additive for good measure. Though the Royal Purple probably c=
ontained sufficient zddp on its own and some folks cautioned against too hig=
h levels of zinc I have continued this combination and have not lost a cam,=
etc. since.
>>>>>=20
>>>>> YMMV.... =20
>>>>>=20
>>>>> On Thu, Aug 5, 2021 at 11:16 PM Michael Salter <michaelsalter@gmail.co=
m> wrote:
>>>>>> The first sign of problems was having to adjust the tappets which had=
initially been silent after 2000 miles and then again at 4500.
>>>>>> After adjusting they were still audible and had previously been silen=
t.
>>>>>> Then at the 2000 and 4000 mile oil changes there was "fir" in the dra=
in plug magnet.
>>>>>> I'm very disappointed to have destroyed a very low mileage "M" cam an=
d a set of NOS lifters that I had been saving for decades.
>>>>>> I'm seriously considering having silicon nitride lifters manufactured=
but at over $1000 a set its a serious investment.
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>> M
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>> On Wed., Aug. 4, 2021, 10:47 a.m. Steven Kingsbury, <airtightproducti=
ons@icloud.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> I just rebuilt my 100 engine and purchased my lifters from AH Spares=
in the UK. These were their new design for better oil flow. I now have 1000=
miles or so on the new engine and once I got my problems figured out with m=
y distributor, the car is running well and smooth.
>>>>>>> Now I'm wondering when the other shoe is going to drop! What prob=
lems did you have pointing you to the lifters as the source of those problem=
s? When I retorqued the head, I readjusted the rockers and found no problems=
. They were a little off, but I expected a little.
>>>>>>> What should I be looking for? I used Driven Break In oil and then=
I switched to VR1 like you after 500 miles. I have been driving the car to b=
uild up some trust in it and it's turning in to a joy to drive. I've got M m=
ods on this engine, cam, H6 carbs, M pistons and these new lifters. So far, s=
o good.=20
>>>>>>> Thanks for your help,
>>>>>>> Steven Kingsbury
>>>>>>> BN1
>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>> On August 3, 2021 at 5:19 PM, Michael Salter via Healeys <healeys@au=
tox.team.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>>> After only 6000 miles the NOS BMC lifters that I installed in my en=
gine with a very low mileage "M" cam have started to deteriorate.=20
>>>>>>>> This engine has had a steady diet of VR1 non synthetic and it has h=
ad 4 changes in 6K miles.=20
>>>>>>>> Very disappointing.=20
>>>>>>>> I'm considering trying bucket type Buick lifters with longer push r=
ods and a new cam.
>>>>>>>> Does anyone have experience with the durability of the old Buick li=
fters ... getting a little desperate here.
>>>>>>>> Fortunately I caught this issue before it ruined the engine.
>>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>>> M
>>>>>>>>=20
>>=20
>> _______________________________________________
>> Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html
>> Suggested annual donation $12.75
>>=20
>> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/healeys http://autox.team.net/arch=
ive
>>=20
>> Healeys@autox.team.net
>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/healeys
>>=20
>> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/healeys/michael=
.oritt@gmail.com
>>=20
>=20
>=20
> --=20
> Best--Michael
> _______________________________________________
> Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation $12.75
>=20
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/healeys http://autox.team.net/archi=
ve
>=20
> Healeys@autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/healeys
>=20
> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/healeys/healeygu=
y@aol.com
>=20
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charset=utf-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"content-type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3D=
utf-8"></head><body dir=3D"auto">I think the real difference between the buc=
ket lifters and the stock units is the actual weight of the lifters. <d=
iv><br></div><div>There may be some impact on lifter bore wear due to the si=
de loads of the pushrods at a higher contact point on stock lifters compared=
to the bucket type but is probably minimal. Was that vague enough? </d=
iv><div>P<br><br><div dir=3D"ltr">Sent from my iPhone</div><div dir=3D"ltr">=
<br><blockquote type=3D"cite">On Aug 9, 2021, at 7:36 AM, Michael Oritt <=
michael.oritt@gmail.com> wrote:<br><br></blockquote></div><blockquote typ=
e=3D"cite"><div dir=3D"ltr">=EF=BB=BF<div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_de=
fault" style=3D"color:#3333ff">Bob--</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=
=3D"color:#3333ff"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"color:#33=
33ff">I should have added that this incident coincided with a recent lowerin=
g by DOT of lead and zinc contents and what might have been fine a year earl=
ier was no longer sufficient to protect the new cam and lifters.&n=
bsp; I'll certainly plead guilty to the sometimes-specious thinking tha=
t "more is better", but on the other hand "less" is sometimes not enoug=
h, and therein lies the dilemma.</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"=
color:#3333ff"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"color:#3333ff=
">Best--Michael Oritt</div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"=
ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Sun, Aug 8, 2021 at 11:00 PM Bob Spidell via He=
aleys <<a href=3D"mailto:healeys@autox.team.net";>healeys@autox.team.net</=
a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px=
0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
=20
=20
=20
<div>
Subject to debate. The literature I've seen from the oil companies
stress that their products are carefully formulated, and adding
anything to them is not a good idea. Also, ZDDP was first used as a
detergent, with its wear surface protection a surprising side-effect
(like how tetra-ethyl lead was added to gas to increase octane
rating, and its cushioning and protecting of valve seats was a
side-effect). But, it's human nature to think "If a little of this
is good, a lot HAS to be better," but it's not necessarily true.
ZDDP is corrosive in high concentrations; the 'sweet spot' appears
to be about 1,500PPM. <br>
<br>
Ordinarily, I'd attribute Michael's failed lifters (cam?) to
improper break-in, but I'm sure M used proper procedures, which
makes this doubly mysterious and concerning. I don't know how bucket
lifters would change the outcome; their main benefit seems to be
reduced wear of the block.<br>
<br>
<br>
<div>On 8/8/2021 6:19 PM, i erbs via Healeys
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type=3D"cite">
=20
<div dir=3D"auto">Good practice<br>
<br>
<div>Ira Erbs<br>
1959 AH 100-6<br>
1967 MGB<br>
Milwaukie, OR</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class=3D"gmail_quote">
<div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Sun, Aug 8, 2021, 6:09 PM
Alan Seigrist <<a href=3D"mailto:healey.nut@gmail.com"; target=3D=
"_blank">healey.nut@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;=
border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div dir=3D"ltr">So adding zddp on top of whatever is in there
is okay? I have Castrol 20W-50 in my motor... also use the=
Valvoline too.</div>
<br>
<div class=3D"gmail_quote">
<div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Sat, Aug 7, 2021 at
11:11 PM Michael Oritt via Healeys <<a href=3D"mailto:heale=
ys@autox.team.net" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">healeys@autox.team.n=
et</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.=
8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"color:rgb(51,51,255)">=
In
about 2007 just before ZDDP content in motor oils
became a commonly talked-about issue in vintage racing
communities, I bought a new race engine for my
MGA-powered Elva Courier from a reputable builder who
recommended I use Mobil 1. Somewhere during the=
first
race weekend performance fell off and upon disassembly
it was determined that the cam lobes had been damaged
due to wear from the lifters. </div>
<div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"color:rgb(51,51,255)">=
<br>
</div>
<div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"color:rgb(51,51,255)">=
After
replacing the cam and lifters I began using RP racing=
oil and throwing in ZDDP additive for good measure.
Though the Royal Purple probably contained sufficient
zddp on its own and some folks cautioned against too
high levels of zinc I have continued this combinatio=
n
and have not lost a cam, etc. since.</div>
<div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"color:rgb(51,51,255)">=
<br>
</div>
<div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"color:rgb(51,51,255)">=
YMMV.... </div>
</div>
<br>
<div class=3D"gmail_quote">
<div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Thu, Aug 5, 2021 at=
11:16 PM Michael Salter <<a href=3D"mailto:michaelsalte=
r@gmail.com" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">michaelsalter@gmail.com</a=
>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0p=
x 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div dir=3D"auto">The first sign of problems was having
to adjust the tappets which had initially been
silent after 2000 miles and then again at 4500.
<div dir=3D"auto">After adjusting they were still
audible and had previously been silent.</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">Then at the 2000 and 4000 mile oil
changes there was "fir" in the drain plug magnet.</div=
>
<div dir=3D"auto">I'm very disappointed to have
destroyed a very low mileage "M" cam and a set of
NOS lifters that I had been saving for decades.</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">I'm seriously considering having
silicon nitride lifters manufactured but at over
$1000 a set its a serious investment.</div>
<div dir=3D"auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">M</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class=3D"gmail_quote">
<div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Wed., Aug. 4,
2021, 10:47 a.m. Steven Kingsbury, <<a href=3D"mail=
to:airtightproductions@icloud.com" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">airt=
ightproductions@icloud.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0p=
x 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div>
<div>I just rebuilt my 100 engine and purchased
my lifters from AH Spares in the UK. These
were their new design for better oil flow. I
now have 1000 miles or so on the new engine
and once I got my problems figured out with my
distributor, the car is running well and
smooth.</div>
<div> Now I'm wondering when the ot=
her shoe is
going to drop! What problems did you have
pointing you to the lifters as the source of
those problems? When I retorqued the head, I
readjusted the rockers and found no problems.
They were a little off, but I expected a
little.</div>
<div> What should I be looking for?=
I used
Driven Break In oil and then I switched to VR1
like you after 500 miles. I have been driving
the car to build up some trust in it and it's
turning in to a joy to drive. I've got M mods
on this engine, cam, H6 carbs, M pistons and
these new lifters. So far, so good. </div>
<div> Thanks for your help,</div>
<div>Steven Kingsbury</div>
<div>BN1</div>
<div><br>
On August 3, 2021 at 5:19 PM, Michael Salter
via Healeys <<a href=3D"mailto:healeys@autox.te=
am.net" rel=3D"noreferrer noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">healeys@autox.team.n=
et</a>>
wrote:<br>
<br>
</div>
<div>
<blockquote type=3D"cite">
<div>
<div dir=3D"auto">After only 6000 miles the
NOS BMC lifters that I installed in my
engine with a very low mileage "M" cam
have started to deteriorate.
<div dir=3D"auto">This engine has had a
steady diet of VR1 non synthetic and
it has had 4 changes in 6K miles. </d=
iv>
<div dir=3D"auto">Very disappointing. <=
/div>
<div dir=3D"auto">I'm considering tryi=
ng
bucket type Buick lifters with longer
push rods and a new cam.</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">Does anyone have
experience with the durability of the
old Buick lifters ... getting a little
desperate here.</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">Fortunately I caught
this issue before it ruined the
engine.</div>
<div dir=3D"auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">M</div>
</div>
<br>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
</div>
_______________________________________________<br>
er" target=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/donate.html</a><br>
<br>
Archive: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/pipermail/healeys"; rel=3D"noreferrer=
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p://autox.team.net/archive" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">http://auto=
x.team.net/archive</a><br>
<br>
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<br>
</blockquote></div><br clear=3D"all"><div><br></div>-- <br><div dir=3D"ltr" c=
lass=3D"gmail_signature"><font color=3D"#3333ff">Best--Michael</font></div>
<span>_______________________________________________</span><br><span>Suppor=
t Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html</span><br><span>Suggested annual d=
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