-----Original Message-----
From: A.B. [mailto:bigfred@unm.edu]
Sent: Friday, September 15, 2000 1:17 PM
To: Whittaker Bill G Civ ASC/SMY
Cc: 'Old Trucks'
Subject: RE: [oletrucks] RE: IFS, but not to open any can or worms again
On Fri, 15 Sep 2000, Whittaker Bill G Civ ASC/SMY wrote:
> Sorry but I respectfully disagree with almost everything you said.
>
> Yes the front axle is held in by 8 nuts. A system that was designed and
>tested by the factory to work properly on their trucks and it has proven
>itself over millions of miles of use. Comparing that system to bolting on an
>adapted aftermarket system that may or may not have been designed by
>knowledgeable people is like comparing apples to oranges. They look similar on
>the surface but they're completely different. So I don't buy your argument on
>that one.
-- Well, from all your previous posts I seem to get that you simply don't
like bolt in front suspensions. I fail to see how 8 bolts on an
original
suspension is different then 8 bolts on an IFS. Do factory engineers know
magical places to put their bolts? I doubt it.
>
> It is true that modern software tools allow you to pretty much design and
>theoretically test a system while sitting at your desk, but no one has ever
>come up with a substitute for actual on the road testing. If what you say is
>true the factories would never come out with improvements or changes to their
>suspension systems because they would be perfectly designed from day one. I
>seriously doubt that any auto manufacturer puts a system in a vehicle for sale
>that hasn't been extensively tested on the road. That's why you don't have
>entirely new models every year. They stick with designs they have millions
>invested in and through testing and experience on the road make small
>improvements each year.
>
-- True that nothing takes the place of experience, testing and
money. I'm not arguging that, but it seems like there are so many camero
clips, pacer crossmembers, and aftermarket suspensions out there that work
fine every day. Did all these people just get lucky.? I really think
there is not as much to this as you would have me believe. I'm not going
to the moon, I'm building a truck.
> Designing a suspension system isn't rocket science. Racers do it every day.
>However the systems they design are for a specific purpose and aren't designed
>from the outset to be able to put up with years of over the road use. Therein
>lies the problem. It takes a considerable amount of money and testing to
>design a bolt on suspension system that can handle the stresses of daily use,
>and not every Tom, Dick, and Harry is capable of doing that. Even though their
>sales literature might say otherwise.
>
-- Please dont' tell me that every Tom Dick and Harry is designing
suspension. I see quite a few different manufacturers, but as someone
already pointed out, they had to start somewhere. Too often, the little
guy gets discounted in favor of the guys with the money. Lots of times
bigger isn't better, and sometimes bigger is worse because it's harder to
change things. Anyway, I do know a little about racing suspensions, I
race motorcycles, where suspensionn is the most critical factor in the
setup. I would trust my race bike on the street any day, just minor
changes to the damping setup... I just wouldn't want to wear out that
suspension on the street. I wouldnt' say it's not up to every day use
though.
> The Pacer conversion is a popular one and most people seem to like it.
>Properly installed it is a safe system, however like I said before, I think
>any bolt on system would be safer if welded in place. I do understand your
>reasons for bolting it in though. I would just suggest you (or anyone who
>prefers to bolt on an aftermarket IFS or do a conversion like your doing)
>periodically check the tightness of the bolts if for nothing else than the
>piece of mind it will give you.
>
-- I guess I'm a little confused. Seems like you dont' have a problem
with the pacer set up, which was designed for a small car, but you do have
a problem with a suspension system that someone acutally tried to design
to work with a specific application?
Respectfully,
-alfie
OK, I'll say it again. The vast majority of bolt on aftermarket IFS systems
designed by small entrepreneures can be made safer if welded in place. I don't
believe there are very many mechanical engineers that would take issue with
that statement. This is not to say that a small company can't design one
that's safe. But bolt on IFS systems just aren't as safe as they can be when
installed on an old frame unless they're welded in place.
The Pacer unit is a different animal. It was produced by a major auto
manufacturer and is a proven design. If installed correctly (properly aligned)
the geometry will be correct and this system represents a good alternative to
the Mustang II kits. Would I use one without welding it in place? In a word,
no. Welding will add safety simply because, although it was designed as a bolt
in system for the Pacer, it was not designed to be a bolt in system for an old
truck with a frame that reacts differently to stress than the one it was
designed for.
I honestly don't think I can state my position any plainer than that.
Bill Whittaker
'53 3100 Hemi
Built Like A Rock
With Mopar Stock
oletrucks is devoted to Chevy and GM trucks built between 1941 and 1959
oletrucks is devoted to Chevy and GM trucks built between 1941 and 1959
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