Sorry for the rant and my apologies for the thoughtless
connection. I was suggesting a way to separate the cowards (the
fakers) from the true conscientious objectors.
In WWII the CO's were put into work camps, where many rebelled and
worked to rule. Then some went to prisons as volunteers where many
rebelled and started the prison reform movement. Others went to
mental institutions (as volunteers) where many rebelled against
the poor inmate conditions. As gunless medics in the war zones
they saved many lives (except when a gun was needed).
Reform is good, I just don't think our enemies get enough of it.
Mike L
60A,67E,59Bug
----- Original Message -----
From Geoff Branch <gjbranch at mediaone.net>
> Mike: I don't object to your rant, and agree with almost all of
it, until you
> make the non-sensible association of concientious objectors and
the (liberal)
> whiners. They are are not necessarily one in the same. I am a
proud member of
> the former and a strong opponent to the latter. I am an
American, and as such I
> have the right to choose my morals and fights. Conscription
should be
> mandatory for everyone; male and female. Conscriptee chooses
military or non
> military service.
>
> My many apologies to the list for the s*(t storm this is going
to bring! But
> what the heck, no one's talking cars anyway.
>
> Geoff Branch
> '74 Meejit "Yellow Peril"
> '72 Innocenti 1300 Mini
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Michael Lupynec" <mlupynec@globalserve.net>
> To: "Brad Fornal" <toyman@digitex.net>; "Robert E. Shlafer"
<PilotRob@webtv.net>
> Cc: "Brent Wolf" <wolfbj@prodigy.net>; "Spridgets"
<spridgets@autox.team.net>
> Sent: Thursday, January 24, 2002 9:27 AM
> Subject: Re: Be An American (No LBC)
>
>
> > The whiners haven't changed from the conscientious objectors
from
> > the past. Next real war (with conscription) I say those who
can't
> > kill for whatever reason, be parachuted behind enemy lines to
> > convert the other side's civilians. Everybody happy?
> >
> > Hate to do this but the whiner logic runs like this -
> > 1) We have to treat all detainees as POW's under the Geneva
> > convention, until they are determined by due process to be
illegal
> > combatants.
> > 2) If we don't demand Geneva rules then how can we morally ask
the
> > same for US prisoners.
> >
> > As usual the logic is flawed -
> > 1a) as in civilian jurisprudence we often hold suspects long
> > before they are convicted.
> > 1b) the Geneva convention is outdated, and has never been
fully
> > enforced (it requires a prisoner canteen to be set up with
canteen
> > profits going to the prisoners, it requires POWs to have the
same
> > accommodation as your own soldiers etc.
> > 1(c) when last did hear these whiners bitching about the North
> > Vietnamese or W.W.II Japanese atrocities?
> > 2) If US/CDN citizens (let alone mercenaries based in the
> > US/Canada) blew up anybody's 3000 innocents I would be the
first
> > volunteer that they be put on display in public zoos.
> >
> > Mike L
> > 60A,67E,59Bug
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Brad Fornal <toyman@digitex.net>
> > To: Robert E. Shlafer <PilotRob@webtv.net>
> > Cc: Brent Wolf <wolfbj@prodigy.net>; Spridgets
> > <spridgets@autox.team.net>
> > Sent: January 24, 2002 8:18 AM
> > Subject: Re: Be An American (No LBC)
> >
> >
> > > I agree completely!! Especially after seeing on the news
that
> > there are folks
> > > that are complaining about the treatment of P.O.W.'s in
other
> > countries. These
> > > "whiners" have obviously already forgotten one simple fact,
WE
> > ARE AT WAR!!
> > > P.O.W. do not have the rights that normal U.S. citizens
have. It
> > is infuriating
> > > to me that the same folks that used our leniency against us,
> > i.e. terrorism on
> > > our lax airplane security, are now being offered even more
of
> > same, by "virtue"
> > > (I use that word sarcastically) of our bleeding heart
liberals
> > that can't seem to
> > > remember why those jerks ended up in Cuba to start with. If,
by
> > some chance,
> > > there is a lister that thinks that these folks are being
treated
> > unfairly. THEY
> > > ARE NOT U.S. CITIZENS, THEY ARE NOT IN THE
U.S..................
> > >
> > > "Robert E. Shlafer" wrote:
> > >
> > > > "The downfall of the United States will
> > > > be the mongeralization of it's race";
> > > > Adolph Hitler, circa 1940.
> > > >
> > > > I do not believe this but, I do believe we
> > > > (generally) have become complacent
> > > > in forgetting we have separated, to a greater extent than
> > others,
> > > > religion and
> > > > state and in so doing, have created
> > > > natural enemies in the form of those
> > > > "left behind" in this respect.
> > > >
> > > > "They" will seize upon whatever excuse
> > > > they can find to make sure we pay for
> > > > our "sin". "They" identify themselves by
> > > > "blindsiding" unarmed civilians in "acts
> > > > of war"; aka "terrorism".
> > > >
> > > > We have let such people into our
> > > > country and have conferred the rights
> > > > of citizenship upon them, accordingly,
> > > > whether they be citizens or not.
> > > >
> > > > This is our "arrogance"; this arrogance
> > > > is our real sin, me thinks! We fail to
> > > > understand where others are in "their
> > > > growth" (or lack of it, as the case may
> > > > be).
> > > >
> > > > As in your personal life, extending
> > > > friendship and humanity to all whom you
> > > > meet, without educated "selectivity", can be a real
> > life-threatening
> > > > affair.
> > > >
> > > > There are people over here (and over there) who will take
you
> > for
> > > > everything you
> > > > have, justifying their "piracy" with any excuse you are
stupid
> > enough to
> > > > "buy",
> > > > inclusive of "guilt".
> > > >
> > > > So it is with international affairs, as well.
> > > >
> > > > I wish others no harm at all, whether they
> > > > be from "here" or "over there".
> > > >
> > > > We have many over here who are poor
> > > > and homeless and others who may become so caused
indirectly by
> > recent
> > > > acts of the "they".
> > > >
> > > > How much are we spending "over there"
> > > > that could better be spent "over here"
> > > > helping "our own" in terms of "rebuilding".
> > > >
> > > > I am in no hurry to leave this planet but
> > > > when the time comes due to natural
> > > > causes, I am ready. I have had enough
> > > > of "them", and I have also had my fill
> > > > of some of "us", also.
> > > >
> > > > We have been "Trojan horsed" and
> > > > "they" (over there) have done THE "guilt trip" of all time
on
> > some of
> > > > us, to be sure.
> > > > The "some" are generally called "liberals",
> > > > who (me thinks) are academically
> > > > educated beyond their world experience
> > > > level to the extent they've lost their
> > > > world "street smarts".
> > > >
> > > > Of course, this is just my opinion; I could
> > > > be wrong>
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