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Duncan,
=20
I have a drop of 50F from inlet to outlet.
The wrong impeller needs to be checked next time I open the water pump.
The water way is from front to rear and back through the head to the =
thermostat housing.
=20
Cheers
Chris
=20
Von: Duncan Charlton [mailto:duncan.charlton54@gmail.com]=20
Gesendet: Samstag, 9. Juli 2016 22:06
An: MadMarx <tr4racing@googlemail.com>
Cc: FOT List <fot@autox.team.net>
Betreff: Re: [Fot] TR8 Water temperature
=20
Chris,
=20
It might be instructive to measure input/output comparison temperatures =
over a range of, say, 160=CB=9AF to 212=CB=9AF. Everything I=E2=80=99ve =
read so far says that a 25=CB=9AF drop between inlet and outlet is =
pretty typical. If it=E2=80=99s dropping more than that, I would think =
that the coolant is spending more time in the radiator due to slow flow. =
I have read that the idea that the water is circulating too fast for an =
adequate temperature drop in the radiator has been discredited but I =
couldn=E2=80=99t find the source of that statement. It does make sense =
to me, however, that if the water flow is completely unrestricted some =
areas will be cooled more effectively than others as friction loss drags =
down flow in smaller passages in the engine as flow increases to the =
larger passages.
=20
Checking the temperature at various places on the block and intake =
manifold could yield some useful information too.
=20
I just remembered something as I was typing this. Some serpentine belt =
arrangements cause the water pump to turn the other direction on the BOP =
V8. there are various types of impeller, some with straight vanes, =
some with curved ones, and I=E2=80=99ve seen both =
=E2=80=9Cdirections=E2=80=9D of curved vanes =E2=80=94 I wonder if your =
car ended up with one that is meant to turn the other way.
=20
Duncan Charlton
Elgin, Texas USA
=20
=20
=20
On Jul 9, 2016, at 7:11 AM, MadMarx <tr4racing@googlemail.com =
=20
Hi Duncan,
=20
To answer your questions:
1- I measure about the same what is measured at the head outlet. =
The gauge is mechanical and I=E2=80=99ve put the probe in boiling water =
and had read 210F. I think this is okay with being 200 meters above see =
level.
2- The radiator core is new and came in at year 2014. I=E2=80=99ve =
also measured over the whole core temperatures and they are very even. =
It is also clean from outside.
3- I do always my best to remove air.
4- With the fan blowing the temperature is creeping up more and =
more. Fan blows in the right direction
=20
The impeller of the waterpump has a metal plate so it should be =
independent of any distance to the housing.
=20
The car had these temperatures already when I drove it at Road America. =
So this is not a new thing on the car, I just want to cure it.
=20
Chri
=20
Von: Duncan Charlton [mailto:duncan.charlton54@gmail.com]=20
Gesendet: Samstag, 9. Juli 2016 13:51
>
Betreff: Re: [Fot] TR8 Water temperature
=20
Chris,
=20
212F at idle? That=E2=80=99s interesting. I=E2=80=99ll start with the =
usual questions:=20
=20
1) What is the temperature you recorded at the radiator inlet? (Having =
observed this, I assume you have already confirmed that the gauge is =
reading correctly.)
=20
2) Is the radiator clean, inside and out?
=20
3) Have you confirmed that there is not an air bubble trapped in the =
system?
=20
4) Temperature at idle remains this high even with the cooling fan =
blowing? If so, is the fan blowing the right direction?
=20
I don=E2=80=99t know whether the following applies to the Rover motor =
you=E2=80=99ve got, but some Morgan owners with Triumph motors have =
found that the impeller of their new water pump is improperly placed on =
its shaft so that there is a large gap between the impeller and the =
housing, causing it to be very inefficient. One guy measured =
0.075=E2=80=9D end clearance, which he was able to reduce to =
0.015=E2=80=9D by use of a spacer.
=20
Duncan Charlton
Elgin, Texas USA
=20
=20
=20
tr4racing@googlemail.com> wrote:
=20
Hi guys,
=20
My TR8 is running way too hot about 212F at full speed and at idle the =
temps are getting that high also. I have no idea to get them down.
Radiator core is 68x48cm x 5 cm. I suppose that should be enough. I've =
experiment with different restrictor plates with no change. Changing =
pump speed didn't help either. The difference between radiator in and =
outlet is 10=C2=B0C (50F). Not enough I would say. Maybe making the pump =
more slower? It was running on a ratio of 0.8 slower than crank, =
currently 1:1 speed. Any ideas? 10 Liters are circulating.
=20
Cheers
Chris
_______________________________________________
<http://www.fot-racing.com/> http://www.fot-racing.com
Archive: <http://www.team.net/archive> http://www.team.net/archive
Forums: <http://www.team.net/forums> http://www.team.net/forums
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=20
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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=3DDE link=3Dblue =
vlink=3Dpurple><div class=3DWordSection1><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;mso-fareast-la=
nguage:EN-US'>Duncan,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;mso-fareast-la=
nguage:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;mso-fareast-la=
nguage:EN-US'>I have a drop of 50F from inlet to =
outlet.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;mso-fareast-la=
nguage:EN-US'>The wrong impeller needs to be checked next time I open =
the water pump.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;mso-fareast-la=
nguage:EN-US'>The water way is from front to rear and back through the =
head to the thermostat housing.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;mso-fareast-la=
nguage:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;mso-fareast-la=
nguage:EN-US'>Cheers<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;mso-fareast-la=
nguage:EN-US'>Chris<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><a =
name=3D"_MailEndCompose"><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;mso-fareast-la=
nguage:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></a></p><span =
style=3D'mso-bookmark:_MailEndCompose'></span><div><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>Von:</span></=
b><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'> =
Duncan Charlton [mailto:duncan.charlton54@gmail.com] =
<br><b>Gesendet:</b> Samstag, 9. Juli 2016 22:06<br><b>An:</b> MadMarx =
<tr4racing@googlemail.com><br><b>Cc:</b> FOT List =
<fot@autox.team.net><br><b>Betreff:</b> Re: [Fot] TR8 Water =
temperature<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Chris,<o:p></o:p></p><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal>It =
might be instructive to measure input/output comparison temperatures =
over a range of, say, 160=CB=9AF to 212=CB=9AF. Everything =
I=E2=80=99ve read so far says that a 25=CB=9AF drop between inlet and =
outlet is pretty typical. If it=E2=80=99s dropping more than that, =
I would think that the coolant is spending more time in the radiator due =
to slow flow. I have read that the idea that the water is =
circulating too fast for an adequate temperature drop in the radiator =
has been discredited but I couldn=E2=80=99t find the source of that =
statement. It does make sense to me, however, that if the water =
flow is completely unrestricted some areas will be cooled more =
effectively than others as friction loss drags down flow in smaller =
passages in the engine as flow increases to the larger =
passages.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Checking the temperature at various places on the =
block and intake manifold could yield some useful information =
too.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal>I =
just remembered something as I was typing this. Some serpentine =
belt arrangements cause the water pump to turn the other direction on =
the BOP V8. there are various types of impeller, some with =
straight vanes, some with curved ones, and I=E2=80=99ve seen both =
=E2=80=9Cdirections=E2=80=9D of curved vanes =E2=80=94 I wonder if =
your car ended up with one that is meant to turn the other =
way.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Duncan Charlton<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Elgin, Texas USA<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>On Jul 9, 2016, at 7:11 AM, MadMarx <<a =
href=3D"mailto:tr4racing@googlemail.com";>tr4racing@googlemail.com</a>>=
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>Hi =
Duncan,</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'> </span>=
<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>To answer =
your questions:</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div =
style=3D'margin-left:36.0pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'text-indent:-18.0pt'><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>1-</span><spa=
n lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:7.0pt'> <span =
class=3Dapple-converted-space> </span></span><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>I measure =
about the same what is measured at the head outlet. The gauge is =
mechanical and I=E2=80=99ve put the probe in boiling water and had read =
210F. I think this is okay with being 200 meters above see =
level.</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div style=3D'margin-left:36.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'text-indent:-18.0pt'><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>2-</span><spa=
n lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:7.0pt'> <span =
class=3Dapple-converted-space> </span></span><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>The radiator =
core is new and came in at year 2014. I=E2=80=99ve also measured over =
the whole core temperatures and they are very even. It is also clean =
from outside.</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div =
style=3D'margin-left:36.0pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'text-indent:-18.0pt'><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>3-</span><spa=
n lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:7.0pt'> <span =
class=3Dapple-converted-space> </span></span><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>I do always =
my best to remove air.</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div =
style=3D'margin-left:36.0pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'text-indent:-18.0pt'><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>4-</span><spa=
n lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:7.0pt'> <span =
class=3Dapple-converted-space> </span></span><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>With the fan =
blowing the temperature is creeping up more and more. Fan blows in the =
right direction</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'> </span>=
<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>The impeller =
of the waterpump has a metal plate so it should be independent of any =
distance to the housing.</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'> </span>=
<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>The car had =
these temperatures already when I drove it at Road America. So this is =
not a new thing on the car, I just want to cure =
it.</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'> </span>=
<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>Chri</span><o=
:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'> </span>=
<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><div style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid =
#E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm'><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>Von:</span></=
b><span class=3Dapple-converted-space><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'> </span>=
</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>Duncan =
Charlton [<a =
href=3D"mailto:duncan.charlton54@gmail.com";>mailto:duncan.charlton54@gmai=
l.com</a>]<span =
class=3Dapple-converted-space> </span><br><b>Gesendet:</b><span =
class=3Dapple-converted-space> </span>Samstag, 9. Juli 2016 =
13:51<br><b>An:</b><span =
class=3Dapple-converted-space> </span>MadMarx <<a =
href=3D"mailto:tr4racing@googlemail.com";>tr4racing@googlemail.com</a>>=
<br><b>Cc:</b><span class=3Dapple-converted-space> </span>FOT List =
<<a =
href=3D"mailto:fot@autox.team.net";>fot@autox.team.net</a>><br><b>Betre=
ff:</b><span class=3Dapple-converted-space> </span>Re: [Fot] TR8 =
Water temperature</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Chris,<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>212F at idle? That=E2=80=99s interesting. =
I=E2=80=99ll start with the usual =
questions: <o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>1) What is the temperature you recorded at the =
radiator inlet? (Having observed this, I assume you have already =
confirmed that the gauge is reading =
correctly.)<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>2) Is the radiator clean, inside and =
out?<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>3) Have you confirmed that there is not an air bubble =
trapped in the system?<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>4) Temperature at idle remains this high even with the =
cooling fan blowing? If so, is the fan blowing the right =
direction?<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>I don=E2=80=99t know whether the following applies to =
the Rover motor you=E2=80=99ve got, but some Morgan owners with Triumph =
motors have found that the impeller of their new water pump is =
improperly placed on its shaft so that there is a large gap between the =
impeller and the housing, causing it to be very inefficient. One =
guy measured 0.075=E2=80=9D end clearance, which he was able to reduce =
to 0.015=E2=80=9D by use of a =
spacer.<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Duncan Charlton<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Elgin, Texas =
USA<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>On Jul 7, 2016, at 12:20 PM, MadMarx <<a =
href=3D"mailto:tr4racing@googlemail.com";><span =
style=3D'color:purple'>tr4racing@googlemail.com</span></a>> =
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><div><div><div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'=
>Hi guys,</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'=
> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'=
>My TR8 is running way too hot about 212F at full speed and at idle the =
temps are getting that high also. I have no idea to get them =
down.<br>Radiator core is 68x48cm x 5 cm. I suppose that should be =
enough. I've experiment with different restrictor plates with no change. =
Changing pump speed didn't help either. The difference between radiator =
in and outlet is 10=C2=B0C (50F). Not enough I would say. Maybe making =
the pump more slower? It was running on a ratio of 0.8 slower than =
crank, currently 1:1 speed.<span =
class=3Dapple-converted-space> </span></span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'=
>Any ideas? 10 Liters are =
circulating.</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'=
> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'=
>Cheers</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'=
>Chris</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'>____________=
___________________________________<br></span><a =
href=3D"mailto:fot@autox.team.net";><span =
style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:purple'=
>fot@autox.team.net</span></a><span =
style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'><br><br></sp=
an><a href=3D"http://www.fot-racing.com/";><span =
style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:purple'=
>http://www.fot-racing.com</span></a><span =
style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'><br><br>Dona=
te:<span class=3Dapple-converted-space> </span></span><a =
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style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:purple'=
>http://www.team.net/donate.html</span></a><span =
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style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:purple'=
>http://www.team.net/archive</span></a><span =
style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'><br>Forums:<=
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>http://www.team.net/forums</span></a><span =
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ibe/Manage:<span class=3Dapple-converted-space> </span></span><a =
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.com"><span =
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>http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/duncan.charlton54@gmail.com</s=
pan></a><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></blockquote></div></div></div></div><=
/blockquote></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div></div></div></body></html>
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