healeys
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Re: [Healeys] Missing under Load

To: "Michael Oritt" <michael.oritt@gmail.com>, "Oudesluys" <coudesluijs@chello.nl>
Subject: Re: [Healeys] Missing under Load
From: "David Nock" <healeydoc@gmail.com>
Date: Thu, 4 Jun 2015 08:15:17 -0700
Cc: Austin Healey <healeys@autox.team.net>
Delivered-to: mharc@autox.team.net
Delivered-to: healeys@autox.team.net
Importance: Normal
References: <16C3C5D7-6384-4B9F-86A4-747154CEBA5F@gmail.com> <CAFBXTkLNOP7o4wYG7nWy0j-Wgm-noWmJLB=jrtMSK-j-gB0eyw@mail.gmail.com> <556FDD56.5030703@comcast.net> <556fe562.20836b0a.c04a.ffffdea8SMTPIN_ADDED_BROKEN@mx.google.com> <CAFBXTkJLg9-hM0YAL+60fvNpxtktq9C7xDuepEqzHN1zA37bcg@mail.gmail.com> <5570354c.53066b0a.67af.ffffede1SMTPIN_ADDED_BROKEN@mx.google.com> <CAB3i7LKpSvE4eRZfjMf3SsX_1F=zUaV1Y6UOap_E_4iA+v67oQ@mail.gmail.com> <CAPTa0B4Yqmei0M0R4pG3qniF8xcWFXY6AT0UhSqrJCaTwOyOwQ@mail.gmail.com> <55705796.8040108@chello.nl> <CAPTa0B6ByFaOgkNO8mDnJ3d1CwEJjTB-UmA5w3LDmLh+sOtYNQ@mail.gmail.com>
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You must not use steel core wires with a Pertronix ignition. It can =
cause intermittent miss fires in ignition. You will need to install a =
TR6 distributor car and carbon wires.

David Nock
healeydoc@sbcglobal.net
209 948 8767
www.britishcarspecialists.com

From: Michael Oritt=20
Sent: Thursday, June 04, 2015 6:57 AM
To: Oudesluys=20
Cc: Austin Healey=20
Subject: Re: [Healeys] Missing under Load

Kees--

No doubt you are right.=20

Now if I can just figure out a way to shut down the ignition systems of =
the other cars with which I am racing I will be a consistent winner!

Best--Michael Oritt

On Thu, Jun 4, 2015 at 9:50 AM, Oudesluys <coudesluijs@chello.nl> wrote:

  I would not be surprised at all if ECU's from nearby modern cars can =
be affected.
  Kees Oudesluijs


  Michael Oritt schreef op 4-6-2015 om 15:37:

    What Michael says is true.

    Here's another one that happened with my Elva Courier race car:  =
Once while getting ready for a race weekend I switched distributor caps =
from one that had suppression leads to another that  solid core wires.  =
As soon as I started the engine the electro-magnetic field managed to =
turn my video cam, which was hard-wired into the car's 12VDC, off and on =
randomly. =20

    As an experiment I powered the cam from a separate battery and even =
though it was about 10 feet from the car with no wires whatsoever =
connecting it to the car the electromagnetic field created by the =
ignition system still took control of the cam. =20

    As soon as I switched back to suppression leads the issue went away.

    Best--Michael Oritt

    On Thu, Jun 4, 2015 at 8:18 AM, Michael Salter =
<michaelsalter@gmail.com> wrote:

      Although I use them myself I do have one caution regarding the use =
of solid core ignition wires.

      As Michael Oritt discovered in Targa Newfoundland they can play =
havoc with electronics. We encountered problems with our "wired" =
intercom and Terratrip rally meter which immediately vanished when we =
reverted to suppressor leads.

      I have also found that my cell phone will not receive messages or =
even do GPS navigation while the engine is running in #174 which has =
completely original 62 year old Lucas ignition components.

      Michael S


      On Thu, Jun 4, 2015 at 7:20 AM, Simon Lachlan =
<simon.lachlan@homecall.co.uk> wrote:

        Not 100% sure what you mean by =E2=80=9Cthe advance curves are =
retained=E2=80=9D. In the 123 you can choose your advance curve.

        And I=E2=80=99m sure one of the built in choice approximates to =
the original.

        And yes(!), I too have a complete Lucas dizzie in my boot. The =
correct rotor arm, decent old Champion plug caps, bumble bee copper =
wire. Fitted with a Pertronix. Points also carried on longer =
expeditions. Belt and braces!!

        Simon



        From: Alan Seigrist [mailto:healey.nut@gmail.com]=20
        Sent: 04 June 2015 07:33
        To: Simon Lachlan
        Cc: Bob Spidell; Healey list


        Subject: Re: [Healeys] Missing under Load


        The advantage with Pertonix over 123 is the advance curves are =
retained and also if your pertronix does fry, keeping points in the boot =
is easy for a backup.  I have a 123 in my A90 and I keep a full lucas =
dizzy with attached cam driveshaft in the boot, just in case.  Call me =
strange.



        On Thu, Jun 4, 2015 at 1:42 PM, Simon Lachlan =
<simon.lachlan@homecall.co.uk> wrote:

        Or get a 123Ignition distributor.

        Simon



        From: Healeys [mailto:healeys-bounces@autox.team.net] On Behalf =
Of Bob Spidell
        Sent: 04 June 2015 06:09
        To: healeys@autox.team.net
        Subject: Re: [Healeys] Missing under Load



        Agree across-the-board.   Had same problem with suppressor =
wires; installed copper stranded wires and no problem in 60K miles or =
so.



        re: "Strongly suggested I install points instead of the =
Petronics."   Why?  Does he recommend blood-letting and trepanning for =
headaches?  I know Jeff is an acknowledged expert, but disagree with the =
points recommendation.  Name a modern manufacturer--they of the 100K =
mile tuneups--that recommends points?  Have (probably) 80K miles on =
Pertronix--with OEM Lucas cap and stranded wires--with no ignition =
issues (save the occasional well-known bad rotor).  If you like changing =
points every 5K miles, fine, but it's not the solution to every ignition =
problem.

        You need: OEM Lucas distributor cap (if you can find one), =
stranded copper wire secondary wires, OEM Lucas suppressor plug caps, =
good plugs, and a quality rotor.

        Bob

        On 6/3/2015 6:33 PM, Alan Seigrist wrote:

          If you are running suppressed modern wires into your standard =
Lucas cap, you can have huge problems, as the graphite type materials =
they use in these don't like connecting to the screw connector in the =
Lucas cap .  You need to use metal core wires, such as bumble bee wire.=20



          Also did you check distributor shaft wobble?  If your dizzy =
bushes are worn, and you have excessive wobble, you could also be having =
similar problems.



          Lastly, check internal wires/insulating washers in the dizzy =
make sure it is all kosher.



          On Thu, Jun 4, 2015 at 9:24 AM, R. Price Lindsay =
<050.rpl@gmail.com> wrote:

          Took the BJ8 out today.  Changed the plug wire to #6 (there =
was a visible spark last night).  The car struggled big time  Had to =
change rotors every 3 miles in order to get the car home.  Driving along =
and all of a sudden backfire, black smoke, nothing.  Changed the rotor =
(it was noticeably hot) and got another 2 or 3 miles out of it.  Looked =
tonight in the dark and the visible spark from number 6 plug was not =
there.  Talked to Jeff with Advanced Distributors and he suggested it =
was plug wires.  Strongly suggested I install points instead of the =
Petronics.  At his suggestion, I checked the ohm reading on the plug =
wires and they checked out OK.  Still wondering if it could be bad gas, =
I did add a product called =E2=80=9CHeat.=E2=80=9D  Supposed to absorb =
any water that may be in the gas tank.  Not much help, so far.

          I=E2=80=99m waiting for the plug wires and distributor cap =
from Moss Motors to show up to install them.  Hope that helps but not =
really convinced it=E2=80=99s the solution.

          Do you guys have any words of wisdom for me?

          Price Lindsay
          67 BJ8






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      --=20

      If you can't fix it with a hammer, you've got an electrical =
problem.



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<HTML><HEAD></HEAD>
<BODY dir=3Dltr>
<DIV dir=3Dltr>
<DIV style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Century'; COLOR: #000000">
<DIV>You must not use steel core wires with a Pertronix ignition. It can =
cause=20
intermittent miss fires in ignition. You will need to install a TR6 =
distributor=20
car and carbon wires.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Century'; COLOR: =
#000000">David=20
Nock<BR>healeydoc@sbcglobal.net<BR>209 948=20
8767<BR>www.britishcarspecialists.com</DIV>
<DIV=20
style=3D'FONT-SIZE: small; TEXT-DECORATION: none; FONT-FAMILY: =
"Calibri"; FONT-WEIGHT: normal; COLOR: #000000; FONT-STYLE: normal; =
DISPLAY: inline'>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt tahoma">
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"BACKGROUND: #f5f5f5">
<DIV style=3D"font-color: black"><B>From:</B> <A =
title=3Dmichael.oritt@gmail.com=20
href=3D"mailto:michael.oritt@gmail.com";>Michael Oritt</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, June 04, 2015 6:57 AM</DIV>
<DIV><B>To:</B> <A title=3Dcoudesluijs@chello.nl=20
href=3D"mailto:coudesluijs@chello.nl";>Oudesluys</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>Cc:</B> <A title=3Dhealeys@autox.team.net=20
href=3D"mailto:healeys@autox.team.net";>Austin Healey</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Healeys] Missing under Load</DIV></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV></DIV>
<DIV=20
style=3D'FONT-SIZE: small; TEXT-DECORATION: none; FONT-FAMILY: =
"Calibri"; FONT-WEIGHT: normal; COLOR: #000000; FONT-STYLE: normal; =
DISPLAY: inline'>
<DIV dir=3Dltr>
<DIV class=3Dgmail_default style=3D"COLOR: #3333ff">Kees--</DIV>
<DIV class=3Dgmail_default style=3D"COLOR: #3333ff">&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV class=3Dgmail_default style=3D"COLOR: #3333ff">No doubt you are =
right. </DIV>
<DIV class=3Dgmail_default style=3D"COLOR: #3333ff">&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV class=3Dgmail_default style=3D"COLOR: #3333ff">Now if I can just =
figure out a=20
way to shut down the ignition systems of the other cars with which I am =
racing I=20
will be a consistent winner!</DIV>
<DIV class=3Dgmail_default style=3D"COLOR: #3333ff">&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV class=3Dgmail_default style=3D"COLOR: #3333ff">Best--Michael =
Oritt</DIV></DIV>
<DIV class=3Dgmail_extra>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV class=3Dgmail_quote>On Thu, Jun 4, 2015 at 9:50 AM, Oudesluys <SPAN =

dir=3Dltr>&lt;<A href=3D"mailto:coudesluijs@chello.nl"=20
target=3D_blank>coudesluijs@chello.nl</A>&gt;</SPAN> wrote:<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE class=3Dgmail_quote=20
style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: #ccc =
1px solid">
  <DIV text=3D"#000000" bgcolor=3D"#FFFFFF">
  <DIV>I would not be surprised at all if ECU's from nearby modern cars =
can be=20
  affected.<BR>Kees Oudesluijs<BR><BR><BR>Michael Oritt schreef op =
4-6-2015 om=20
  15:37:<BR></DIV>
  <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">
    <DIV>
    <DIV class=3Dh5>
    <DIV dir=3Dltr>
    <DIV class=3Dgmail_default>What Michael says is true.</DIV>
    <DIV class=3Dgmail_default>&nbsp;</DIV>
    <DIV class=3Dgmail_default>Here's another one that happened with my =
Elva=20
    Courier race car:&nbsp; Once while getting ready for a race weekend =
I=20
    switched distributor caps from one that had suppression leads to =
another=20
    that&nbsp; solid core wires.&nbsp; As soon as I started the engine =
the=20
    electro-magnetic field managed to turn my video cam, which was =
hard-wired=20
    into the car's 12VDC, off and on randomly.&nbsp; </DIV>
    <DIV class=3Dgmail_default>&nbsp;</DIV>
    <DIV class=3Dgmail_default>As an experiment I powered the cam from a =
separate=20
    battery and even though it was about 10 feet from the car with no =
wires=20
    whatsoever connecting it to the car the electromagnetic field =
created by the=20
    ignition system still took control of the cam.&nbsp; </DIV>
    <DIV class=3Dgmail_default>&nbsp;</DIV>
    <DIV class=3Dgmail_default>As soon as I switched back to suppression =
leads the=20
    issue went away.</DIV>
    <DIV class=3Dgmail_default>&nbsp;</DIV>
    <DIV class=3Dgmail_default>Best--Michael Oritt</DIV></DIV>
    <DIV class=3Dgmail_extra>
    <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
    <DIV class=3Dgmail_quote>On Thu, Jun 4, 2015 at 8:18 AM, Michael =
Salter <SPAN=20
    dir=3Dltr>&lt;<A href=3D"mailto:michaelsalter@gmail.com"=20
    target=3D_blank>michaelsalter@gmail.com</A>&gt;</SPAN> wrote:<BR>
    <BLOCKQUOTE class=3Dgmail_quote>
      <DIV dir=3Dltr>
      <DIV class=3Dgmail_default>Although I use them myself I do have =
one caution=20
      regarding the use of solid core ignition wires.<BR></DIV>
      <DIV class=3Dgmail_default>As Michael Oritt discovered in Targa =
Newfoundland=20
      they can play havoc with electronics. We encountered problems with =
our=20
      "wired" intercom and Terratrip rally meter which immediately =
vanished when=20
      we reverted to suppressor leads.<BR></DIV>
      <DIV class=3Dgmail_default>I have also found that my cell phone =
will not=20
      receive messages or even do GPS navigation while the engine is =
running in=20
      #174 which has completely original 62 year old Lucas ignition=20
      components.<BR></DIV>
      <DIV class=3Dgmail_default>Michael S<BR></DIV></DIV>
      <DIV class=3Dgmail_extra>
      <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
      <DIV class=3Dgmail_quote><SPAN>On Thu, Jun 4, 2015 at 7:20 AM, =
Simon Lachlan=20
      <SPAN dir=3Dltr>&lt;<A =
href=3D"mailto:simon.lachlan@homecall.co.uk"=20
      target=3D_blank>simon.lachlan@homecall.co.uk</A>&gt;</SPAN>=20
wrote:<BR></SPAN>
      <BLOCKQUOTE class=3Dgmail_quote>
        <DIV lang=3DEN-GB>
        <DIV><SPAN>
        <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN>Not 100% sure what you mean by =
=E2=80=9Cthe advance=20
        curves are retained=E2=80=9D. In the 123 you can choose your =
advance=20
        curve.</SPAN></P>
        <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN>And I=E2=80=99m sure one of the built =
in choice=20
        approximates to the original.</SPAN></P>
        <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN>And yes(!), I too have a complete =
Lucas dizzie=20
        in my boot. The correct rotor arm, decent old Champion plug =
caps, bumble=20
        bee copper wire. Fitted with a Pertronix. Points also carried on =
longer=20
        expeditions. Belt and braces!!</SPAN></P>
        <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN>Simon</SPAN></P>
        <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN></SPAN>&nbsp;</P></SPAN>
        <DIV><SPAN>
        <P class=3DMsoNormal><B><SPAN lang=3DEN-US>From:</SPAN></B><SPAN =
lang=3DEN-US>=20
        Alan Seigrist [mailto:<A href=3D"mailto:healey.nut@gmail.com"=20
        target=3D_blank>healey.nut@gmail.com</A>] <BR><B>Sent:</B> 04 =
June 2015=20
        07:33<BR><B>To:</B> Simon Lachlan<BR><B>Cc:</B> Bob Spidell; =
Healey=20
        list</SPAN></P></SPAN>
        <DIV>
        <DIV>
        <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
        <DIV>
        <DIV><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Healeys] Missing under=20
        Load</DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV>
        <DIV>
        <DIV>
        <DIV>
        <DIV>
        <P class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp;</P>
        <DIV>
        <P class=3DMsoNormal>The advantage with Pertonix over 123 is the =
advance=20
        curves are retained and also if your pertronix does fry, keeping =
points=20
        in the boot is easy for a backup.&nbsp; I have a 123 in my A90 =
and I=20
        keep a full lucas dizzy with attached cam driveshaft in the =
boot, just=20
        in case.&nbsp; Call me strange.</P></DIV>
        <DIV>
        <P class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp;</P>
        <DIV>
        <P class=3DMsoNormal>On Thu, Jun 4, 2015 at 1:42 PM, Simon =
Lachlan &lt;<A=20
        href=3D"mailto:simon.lachlan@homecall.co.uk"=20
        target=3D_blank>simon.lachlan@homecall.co.uk</A>&gt; wrote:</P>
        <DIV>
        <DIV>
        <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN>Or get a 123Ignition =
distributor.</SPAN></P>
        <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN>Simon</SPAN></P>
        <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN></SPAN>&nbsp;</P>
        <DIV>
        <DIV>
        <P class=3DMsoNormal><B><SPAN lang=3DEN-US>From:</SPAN></B><SPAN =
lang=3DEN-US>=20
        Healeys [mailto:<A =
href=3D"mailto:healeys-bounces@autox.team.net"=20
        target=3D_blank>healeys-bounces@autox.team.net</A>] <B>On Behalf =
Of=20
        </B>Bob Spidell<BR><B>Sent:</B> 04 June 2015 06:09<BR><B>To:</B> =
<A=20
        href=3D"mailto:healeys@autox.team.net"=20
        target=3D_blank>healeys@autox.team.net</A><BR><B>Subject:</B> =
Re:=20
        [Healeys] Missing under Load</SPAN></P></DIV></DIV>
        <P class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp;</P>
        <P class=3DMsoNormal>Agree across-the-board.&nbsp;&nbsp; Had =
same problem=20
        with suppressor wires; installed copper stranded wires and no =
problem in=20
        60K miles or so.</P>
        <DIV>
        <DIV>
        <P class=3DMsoNormal><BR><BR>re: "Strongly suggested I install =
points=20
        instead of the Petronics."&nbsp;&nbsp; Why?&nbsp; Does he =
recommend=20
        blood-letting and trepanning for headaches?&nbsp; I know Jeff is =
an=20
        acknowledged expert, but disagree with the points =
recommendation.&nbsp;=20
        Name a modern manufacturer--they of the 100K mile tuneups--that=20
        recommends points?&nbsp; Have (probably) 80K miles on =
Pertronix--with=20
        OEM Lucas cap and stranded wires--with no ignition issues (save =
the=20
        occasional well-known bad rotor).&nbsp; If you like changing =
points=20
        every 5K miles, fine, but it's not the solution to every =
ignition=20
        problem.<BR><BR>You need: OEM Lucas distributor cap (if you can =
find=20
        one), stranded copper wire secondary wires, OEM Lucas suppressor =
plug=20
        caps, good plugs, and a quality =
rotor.<BR><BR>Bob</P></DIV></DIV>
        <DIV>
        <DIV>
        <DIV>
        <P class=3DMsoNormal>On 6/3/2015 6:33 PM, Alan Seigrist =
wrote:</P></DIV>
        <BLOCKQUOTE>
          <DIV>
          <P class=3DMsoNormal>If you are running suppressed modern =
wires into=20
          your standard Lucas cap, you can have huge problems, as the =
graphite=20
          type materials they use in these don't like connecting to the =
screw=20
          connector in the Lucas cap .&nbsp; You need to use metal core =
wires,=20
          such as bumble bee wire. </P>
          <DIV>
          <P class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp;</P></DIV>
          <DIV>
          <P class=3DMsoNormal>Also did you check distributor shaft =
wobble?&nbsp;=20
          If your dizzy bushes are worn, and you have excessive wobble, =
you=20
          could also be having similar problems.</P></DIV>
          <DIV>
          <P class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp;</P></DIV>
          <DIV>
          <P class=3DMsoNormal>Lastly, check internal wires/insulating =
washers in=20
          the dizzy make sure it is all kosher.</P></DIV></DIV>
          <DIV>
          <P class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp;</P>
          <DIV>
          <P class=3DMsoNormal>On Thu, Jun 4, 2015 at 9:24 AM, R. Price =
Lindsay=20
          &lt;<A href=3D"mailto:050.rpl@gmail.com"=20
          target=3D_blank>050.rpl@gmail.com</A>&gt; wrote:</P>
          <P class=3DMsoNormal>Took the BJ8 out today.&nbsp; Changed the =
plug wire=20
          to #6 (there was a visible spark last night).&nbsp; The car =
struggled=20
          big time&nbsp; Had to change rotors every 3 miles in order to =
get the=20
          car home.&nbsp; Driving along and all of a sudden backfire, =
black=20
          smoke, nothing.&nbsp; Changed the rotor (it was noticeably =
hot) and=20
          got another 2 or 3 miles out of it.&nbsp; Looked tonight in =
the dark=20
          and the visible spark from number 6 plug was not there.&nbsp; =
Talked=20
          to Jeff with Advanced Distributors and he suggested it was =
plug=20
          wires.&nbsp; Strongly suggested I install points instead of =
the=20
          Petronics.&nbsp; At his suggestion, I checked the ohm reading =
on the=20
          plug wires and they checked out OK.&nbsp; Still wondering if =
it could=20
          be bad gas, I did add a product called =
=E2=80=9CHeat.=E2=80=9D&nbsp; Supposed to=20
          absorb any water that may be in the gas tank.&nbsp; Not much =
help, so=20
          far.<BR><BR>I=E2=80=99m waiting for the plug wires and =
distributor cap from=20
          Moss Motors to show up to install them.&nbsp; Hope that helps =
but not=20
          really convinced it=E2=80=99s the solution.<BR><BR>Do you guys =
have any words=20
          of wisdom for me?<BR><BR>Price Lindsay<BR>67 BJ8</P></DIV>
          <P class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp;</P></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>
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