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Re: [Healeys] Missing under Load

To: healeys@autox.team.net
Subject: Re: [Healeys] Missing under Load
From: Oudesluys <coudesluijs@chello.nl>
Date: Thu, 04 Jun 2015 15:50:14 +0200
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I would not be surprised at all if ECU's from nearby modern cars can be 
affected.
Kees Oudesluijs


Michael Oritt schreef op 4-6-2015 om 15:37:
> What Michael says is true.
>
> Here's another one that happened with my Elva Courier race car:  Once 
> while getting ready for a race weekend I switched distributor caps 
> from one that had suppression leads to another that  solid core 
> wires.  As soon as I started the engine the electro-magnetic field 
> managed to turn my video cam, which was hard-wired into the car's 
> 12VDC, off and on randomly.
>
> As an experiment I powered the cam from a separate battery and even 
> though it was about 10 feet from the car with no wires whatsoever 
> connecting it to the car the electromagnetic field created by the 
> ignition system still took control of the cam.
>
> As soon as I switched back to suppression leads the issue went away.
>
> Best--Michael Oritt
>
> On Thu, Jun 4, 2015 at 8:18 AM, Michael Salter 
>
>     Although I use them myself I do have one caution regarding the use
>     of solid core ignition wires.
>     As Michael Oritt discovered in Targa Newfoundland they can play
>     havoc with electronics. We encountered problems with our "wired"
>     intercom and Terratrip rally meter which immediately vanished when
>     we reverted to suppressor leads.
>     I have also found that my cell phone will not receive messages or
>     even do GPS navigation while the engine is running in #174 which
>     has completely original 62 year old Lucas ignition components.
>     Michael S
>
>     On Thu, Jun 4, 2015 at 7:20 AM, Simon Lachlan
>     <simon.lachlan@homecall.co.uk
>
>         Not 100% sure what you mean by â??the advance curves are
>         retainedâ??. In the 123 you can choose your advance curve.
>
>         And Iâ??m sure one of the built in choice approximates to the
>         original.
>
>         And yes(!), I too have a complete Lucas dizzie in my boot. The
>         correct rotor arm, decent old Champion plug caps, bumble bee
>         copper wire. Fitted with a Pertronix. Points also carried on
>         longer expeditions. Belt and braces!!
>
>         Simon
>
>         *From:*Alan Seigrist [mailto:healey.nut@gmail.com
>         *Sent:* 04 June 2015 07:33
>         *To:* Simon Lachlan
>         *Cc:* Bob Spidell; Healey list
>
>
>         *Subject:* Re: [Healeys] Missing under Load
>
>         The advantage with Pertonix over 123 is the advance curves are
>         retained and also if your pertronix does fry, keeping points
>         in the boot is easy for a backup.  I have a 123 in my A90 and
>         I keep a full lucas dizzy with attached cam driveshaft in the
>         boot, just in case. Call me strange.
>
>         On Thu, Jun 4, 2015 at 1:42 PM, Simon Lachlan
>         <simon.lachlan@homecall.co.uk
>
>         Or get a 123Ignition distributor.
>
>         Simon
>
>         *From:*Healeys [mailto:healeys-bounces@autox.team.net
>         Spidell
>         *Sent:* 04 June 2015 06:09
>         *Subject:* Re: [Healeys] Missing under Load
>
>         Agree across-the-board.   Had same problem with suppressor
>         wires; installed copper stranded wires and no problem in 60K
>         miles or so.
>
>
>
>         re: "Strongly suggested I install points instead of the
>         Petronics."   Why?  Does he recommend blood-letting and
>         trepanning for headaches?  I know Jeff is an acknowledged
>         expert, but disagree with the points recommendation.  Name a
>         modern manufacturer--they of the 100K mile tuneups--that
>         recommends points?  Have (probably) 80K miles on
>         Pertronix--with OEM Lucas cap and stranded wires--with no
>         ignition issues (save the occasional well-known bad rotor). 
>         If you like changing points every 5K miles, fine, but it's not
>         the solution to every ignition problem.
>
>         You need: OEM Lucas distributor cap (if you can find one),
>         stranded copper wire secondary wires, OEM Lucas suppressor
>         plug caps, good plugs, and a quality rotor.
>
>         Bob
>
>         On 6/3/2015 6:33 PM, Alan Seigrist wrote:
>
>             If you are running suppressed modern wires into your
>             standard Lucas cap, you can have huge problems, as the
>             graphite type materials they use in these don't like
>             connecting to the screw connector in the Lucas cap .  You
>             need to use metal core wires, such as bumble bee wire.
>
>             Also did you check distributor shaft wobble?  If your
>             dizzy bushes are worn, and you have excessive wobble, you
>             could also be having similar problems.
>
>             Lastly, check internal wires/insulating washers in the
>             dizzy make sure it is all kosher.
>
>             On Thu, Jun 4, 2015 at 9:24 AM, R. Price Lindsay
>
>             Took the BJ8 out today. Changed the plug wire to #6 (there
>             was a visible spark last night).  The car struggled big
>             time Had to change rotors every 3 miles in order to get
>             the car home. Driving along and all of a sudden backfire,
>             black smoke, nothing. Changed the rotor (it was noticeably
>             hot) and got another 2 or 3 miles out of it. Looked
>             tonight in the dark and the visible spark from number 6
>             plug was not there. Talked to Jeff with Advanced
>             Distributors and he suggested it was plug wires. Strongly
>             suggested I install points instead of the Petronics.  At
>             his suggestion, I checked the ohm reading on the plug
>             wires and they checked out OK.  Still wondering if it
>             could be bad gas, I did add a product called â??Heat.â?? 
>             Supposed to absorb any water that may be in the gas tank. 
>             Not much help, so far.
>
>             Iâ??m waiting for the plug wires and distributor cap from
>             Moss Motors to show up to install them.  Hope that helps
>             but not really convinced itâ??s the solution.
>
>             Do you guys have any words of wisdom for me?
>
>             Price Lindsay
>             67 BJ8
>
>
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>
>
>     -- 
>     /If you can't fix it with a hammer, you've got an electrical problem./
>
>
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    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">I would not be surprised at all if
      ECU's from nearby modern cars can be affected.<br>
      Kees Oudesluijs<br>
      <br>
      <br>
      Michael Oritt schreef op 4-6-2015 om 15:37:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote
cite="mid:CAPTa0B4Yqmei0M0R4pG3qniF8xcWFXY6AT0UhSqrJCaTwOyOwQ@mail.gmail.com"
      type="cite">
      <meta http-equiv="Context-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
      <div dir="ltr">
        <div class="gmail_default">What Michael says is true.</div>
        <div class="gmail_default"><br>
        </div>
        <div class="gmail_default">Here's another one that happened with
          my Elva Courier race car:  Once while getting ready for a race
          weekend I switched distributor caps from one that had
          suppression leads to another that  solid core wires.  As soon
          as I started the engine the electro-magnetic field managed to
          turn my video cam, which was hard-wired into the car's 12VDC,
          off and on randomly.  </div>
        <div class="gmail_default"><br>
        </div>
        <div class="gmail_default">As an experiment I powered the cam
          from a separate battery and even though it was about 10 feet
          from the car with no wires whatsoever connecting it to the car
          the electromagnetic field created by the ignition system still
          took control of the cam.  </div>
        <div class="gmail_default"><br>
        </div>
        <div class="gmail_default">As soon as I switched back to
          suppression leads the issue went away.</div>
        <div class="gmail_default"><br>
        </div>
        <div class="gmail_default">Best--Michael Oritt</div>
      </div>
      <div class="gmail_extra"><br>
        <div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Jun 4, 2015 at 8:18 AM, Michael
          Salter <span dir="ltr">&lt;<a moz-do-not-send="true"
              href="mailto:michaelsalter@gmail.com"; 
target="_blank">michaelsalter@gmail.com</a>&gt;</span>
          wrote:<br>
          <blockquote class="gmail_quote">
            <div dir="ltr">
              <div class="gmail_default">Although I use them myself I do
                have one caution regarding the use of solid core
                ignition wires.<br>
              </div>
              <div class="gmail_default">As Michael Oritt discovered in
                Targa Newfoundland they can play havoc with electronics.
                We encountered problems with our "wired" intercom and
                Terratrip rally meter which immediately vanished when we
                reverted to suppressor leads.<br>
              </div>
              <div class="gmail_default">I have also found that my cell
                phone will not receive messages or even do GPS
                navigation while the engine is running in #174 which has
                completely original 62 year old Lucas ignition
                components.<br>
              </div>
              <div class="gmail_default">Michael S<br>
              </div>
            </div>
            <div class="gmail_extra"><br>
              <div class="gmail_quote"><span class="">On Thu, Jun 4,
                  2015 at 7:20 AM, Simon Lachlan <span dir="ltr">&lt;<a
                      moz-do-not-send="true"
                      href="mailto:simon.lachlan@homecall.co.uk";
                      
target="_blank">simon.lachlan@homecall.co.uk</a>&gt;</span>
                  wrote:<br>
                </span>
                <blockquote class="gmail_quote">
                  <div lang="EN-GB">
                    <div><span class="">
                        <p class="MsoNormal"><span>Not 100% sure what
                            you mean by â??the advance curves are
                            retainedâ??. In the 123 you can choose your
                            advance curve.</span></p>
                        <p class="MsoNormal"><span> And Iâ??m sure one of
                            the built in choice approximates to the
                            original.</span></p>
                        <p class="MsoNormal"><span>And yes(!), I too
                            have a complete Lucas dizzie in my boot. The
                            correct rotor arm, decent old Champion plug
                            caps, bumble bee copper wire. Fitted with a
                            Pertronix. Points also carried on longer
                            expeditions. Belt and braces!!</span></p>
                        <p class="MsoNormal"><span>Simon</span></p>
                        <p class="MsoNormal"><span> </span></p>
                      </span>
                      <div><span class="">
                          <p class="MsoNormal"><b><span 
lang="EN-US">From:</span></b><span
                              lang="EN-US"> Alan Seigrist [mailto:<a
                                moz-do-not-send="true"
                                href="mailto:healey.nut@gmail.com";
                                target="_blank">healey.nut@gmail.com</a>]
                              <br>
                              <b>Sent:</b> 04 June 2015 07:33<br>
                              <b>To:</b> Simon Lachlan<br>
                              <b>Cc:</b> Bob Spidell; Healey list</span></p>
                        </span>
                        <div>
                          <div><br>
                            <div>
                              <div class="h5"><b>Subject:</b> Re:
                                [Healeys] Missing under Load</div>
                            </div>
                          </div>
                        </div>
                      </div>
                      <div>
                        <div class="h5">
                          <div>
                            <div>
                              <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                              <div>
                                <p class="MsoNormal">The advantage with
                                  Pertonix over 123 is the advance
                                  curves are retained and also if your
                                  pertronix does fry, keeping points in
                                  the boot is easy for a backup.  I have
                                  a 123 in my A90 and I keep a full
                                  lucas dizzy with attached cam
                                  driveshaft in the boot, just in case. 
                                  Call me strange.</p>
                              </div>
                              <div>
                                <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                                <div>
                                  <p class="MsoNormal">On Thu, Jun 4,
                                    2015 at 1:42 PM, Simon Lachlan &lt;<a
                                      moz-do-not-send="true"
                                      href="mailto:simon.lachlan@homecall.co.uk";
                                      
target="_blank">simon.lachlan@homecall.co.uk</a>&gt;
                                    wrote:</p>
                                  <div>
                                    <div>
                                      <p class="MsoNormal"><span>Or get
                                          a 123Ignition distributor.</span></p>
                                      <p 
class="MsoNormal"><span>Simon</span></p>
                                      <p class="MsoNormal"><span> </span></p>
                                      <div>
                                        <div>
                                          <p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
                                                
lang="EN-US">From:</span></b><span
                                              lang="EN-US"> Healeys
                                              [mailto:<a
                                                moz-do-not-send="true"
                                                
href="mailto:healeys-bounces@autox.team.net";
                                                
target="_blank">healeys-bounces@autox.team.net</a>]
                                              <b>On Behalf Of </b>Bob
                                              Spidell<br>
                                              <b>Sent:</b> 04 June 2015
                                              06:09<br>
                                              <b>To:</b> <a
                                                moz-do-not-send="true"
                                                
href="mailto:healeys@autox.team.net";
                                                
target="_blank">healeys@autox.team.net</a><br>
                                              <b>Subject:</b> Re:
                                              [Healeys] Missing under
                                              Load</span></p>
                                        </div>
                                      </div>
                                      <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                                      <p class="MsoNormal">Agree
                                        across-the-board.   Had same
                                        problem with suppressor wires;
                                        installed copper stranded wires
                                        and no problem in 60K miles or
                                        so.</p>
                                      <div>
                                        <div>
                                          <p class="MsoNormal"><br>
                                            <br>
                                            re: "Strongly suggested I
                                            install points instead of
                                            the Petronics."   Why?  Does
                                            he recommend blood-letting
                                            and trepanning for
                                            headaches?  I know Jeff is
                                            an acknowledged expert, but
                                            disagree with the points
                                            recommendation.  Name a
                                            modern manufacturer--they of
                                            the 100K mile tuneups--that
                                            recommends points?  Have
                                            (probably) 80K miles on
                                            Pertronix--with OEM Lucas
                                            cap and stranded wires--with
                                            no ignition issues (save the
                                            occasional well-known bad
                                            rotor).  If you like
                                            changing points every 5K
                                            miles, fine, but it's not
                                            the solution to every
                                            ignition problem.<br>
                                            <br>
                                            You need: OEM Lucas
                                            distributor cap (if you can
                                            find one), stranded copper
                                            wire secondary wires, OEM
                                            Lucas suppressor plug caps,
                                            good plugs, and a quality
                                            rotor.<br>
                                            <br>
                                            Bob</p>
                                        </div>
                                      </div>
                                      <div>
                                        <div>
                                          <div>
                                            <p class="MsoNormal">On
                                              6/3/2015 6:33 PM, Alan
                                              Seigrist wrote:</p>
                                          </div>
                                          <blockquote>
                                            <div>
                                              <p class="MsoNormal">If
                                                you are running
                                                suppressed modern wires
                                                into your standard Lucas
                                                cap, you can have huge
                                                problems, as the
                                                graphite type materials
                                                they use in these don't
                                                like connecting to the
                                                screw connector in the
                                                Lucas cap .  You need to
                                                use metal core wires,
                                                such as bumble bee wire.
                                              </p>
                                              <div>
                                                <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                                              </div>
                                              <div>
                                                <p class="MsoNormal">Also
                                                  did you check
                                                  distributor shaft
                                                  wobble?  If your dizzy
                                                  bushes are worn, and
                                                  you have excessive
                                                  wobble, you could also
                                                  be having similar
                                                  problems.</p>
                                              </div>
                                              <div>
                                                <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                                              </div>
                                              <div>
                                                <p class="MsoNormal">Lastly,
                                                  check internal
                                                  wires/insulating
                                                  washers in the dizzy
                                                  make sure it is all
                                                  kosher.</p>
                                              </div>
                                            </div>
                                            <div>
                                              <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                                              <div>
                                                <p class="MsoNormal">On
                                                  Thu, Jun 4, 2015 at
                                                  9:24 AM, R. Price
                                                  Lindsay &lt;<a
                                                    moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:050.rpl@gmail.com"; target="_blank">050.rpl@gmail.com</a>&gt;
                                                  wrote:</p>
                                                <p class="MsoNormal">Took
                                                  the BJ8 out today. 
                                                  Changed the plug wire
                                                  to #6 (there was a
                                                  visible spark last
                                                  night).  The car
                                                  struggled big time 
                                                  Had to change rotors
                                                  every 3 miles in order
                                                  to get the car home. 
                                                  Driving along and all
                                                  of a sudden backfire,
                                                  black smoke, nothing. 
                                                  Changed the rotor (it
                                                  was noticeably hot)
                                                  and got another 2 or 3
                                                  miles out of it. 
                                                  Looked tonight in the
                                                  dark and the visible
                                                  spark from number 6
                                                  plug was not there. 
                                                  Talked to Jeff with
                                                  Advanced Distributors
                                                  and he suggested it
                                                  was plug wires. 
                                                  Strongly suggested I
                                                  install points instead
                                                  of the Petronics.  At
                                                  his suggestion, I
                                                  checked the ohm
                                                  reading on the plug
                                                  wires and they checked
                                                  out OK.  Still
                                                  wondering if it could
                                                  be bad gas, I did add
                                                  a product called
                                                  â??Heat.â??  Supposed to
                                                  absorb any water that
                                                  may be in the gas
                                                  tank.  Not much help,
                                                  so far.<br>
                                                  <br>
                                                  Iâ??m waiting for the
                                                  plug wires and
                                                  distributor cap from
                                                  Moss Motors to show up
                                                  to install them.  Hope
                                                  that helps but not
                                                  really convinced itâ??s
                                                  the solution.<br>
                                                  <br>
                                                  Do you guys have any
                                                  words of wisdom for
                                                  me?<br>
                                                  <br>
                                                  Price Lindsay<br>
                                                  67 BJ8</p>
                                              </div>
                                              <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                                            </div>
                                          </blockquote>
                                          <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                                        </div>
                                      </div>
                                    </div>
                                  </div>
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                      <div dir="ltr"><i><span>If you can't fix it with a
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